Updated Chinese Cut50F Group Buy

[Aquamoose]

Hey guys,

I just posted the latest update on the first page. Take a look there when you get the chance. I am hoping to hear from Mindedc and pwhittle, two cutters are available for them. Hope everyone's happy with their cutters and the entire process?

It seems that everyone is taking things in stride despite the loose ends on some of your cutters. The fact that you managed to apply the fixes yourselves gets my respect and those are the guys I'd like to invite in my shop! I've yet to work on a project but come winter, there will be a few I've got in mind. The first step is to put together a simple MIG & plasma cutter cart of course.

Sean

 

[sk farmer]

it arrived yesterday when i was gone!

damn new puppy chewed the corner of the box because the driver left it on the deck.

it appears unscathed in good shape other than that. thanks for all of the effort!

 

[bobbycos]

bump so i can find thread easier

gotta unpack mine and check it out thouroughly then fire it up

 

[Chuzie]

Mine is having an issue. First time we used it we made one 20" cut (3/16" at 40amps). It stopped working when we started the next cut. Had air and could hear the box actuate in response to the trigger. After a few attempts the orange O. C light came on. Let it sit for about 15 min and it never went out. Turned it off and back on the the light went out. Still didn't operate. Had to change out the electrode and tip to get it to work again.

Today the same thing happened after a short cut. Can't keep going through expendables after each 20" cut.

What am I missing or doing wrong?

Sent from my GS3 on Cyanogenmod with the older / better version of Tapatalk!

 

[e-rockin-it]

How much air are you running? Are you ending up with junk in the tip and are you dragging the tip in the puddle or hovering or on a support? I recently have been having some issues with mine actually (I blew a few diodes and Mosfets inside) the write up on diagnosing and fixing these is coming (once I finish fixing it) but these machines do some non recommended electrical engineering things inside that make them particularly vulnerable at the higher settings. 3/16" you should be able to cut at 50psi (dry air) at about 35A. Does the OC light come on if you unplug and re plug the machine or turn off and turn on?

 

[Chuzie]

Running air at 3.6 - 3.8 whatever that equates to. Using guide so not dragging the tip and it is not getting clogged. Oc light goes off after turning off and back on.

Sent from my GS3 on Cyanogenmod with the older / better version of Tapatalk!

 

[e-rockin-it]

Air seems about right. The OC is sort of an overload light. I'm not entirely sure what triggers it aside from over temperature. You might want to pop the cover off and check the temperature sensor. Little disk screwed to the heatsink inside, on the right side if you're looking at the front. Mine had some exposed wire in that area, and might be shorting out on the cover. Also check that if it's not hot that the resistance is high. Be careful on the inside of the unit if it's plugged in though, there's going to be 240V if it's off and a litte over 300V if it's on.

 

[e-rockin-it]

I'm reverse engineering parts of it right now while I fix mine, unless someone has a schematic of our particular unit, I've got one for the regular Cut-50 (no display) but I'm missing certain blocks and there are a few differences from what we have.

 

[Chuzie]

The problem is occurring prior to the oc light coming on. Our repeat attempts to get it to operate are what cause the oc light.

Sent from my GS3 on Cyanogenmod with the older / better version of Tapatalk!

 

[e-rockin-it]

Just to get the chain of events straight in my head, unit cuts for a bit, then stops working, do you still get pilot arc or nothing?, then you fiddle with it (what exactly are you doing) then the OC light comes on. Changing electrodes seems to fix it. I'm in the middle of fixing mine after running it hard enough that it stopped working (showed 000) on the display and after tearing into it found out a lot about how these work, if you can give me a bit more details about pilot arc, and then what you do to cause the OC light I might be able to help out. I also found some cold solder joints / things that needed a touch up. Planning on posting a whole lab notes section on here or a different thread if anyone is interested when I get mine up and running again.

 

[Chuzie]

Gotcha. SOE:

Clean air set 3.6 - 3.8
Amps set at 40
Cut 20"+ of 3/8" no problem (45 seconds or so)
Oc light is NOT on
Squeeze trigger for second cut.
Air comes out and sounds like a relay actuates in box but no arc.
Hold trigger for 3 seconds and repeat a couple times with no change. After 3rd attempt oc light comes on.
Let unit sit for 10m and oc light does NOT extinguish.
Turn unit off for 10s then back on and oc light is off.
Attempt cut again but same problem. Air but no arc then oc light.
Change tip and electrode.
Unit cuts fine unit i release trigger and attempt second cut. Same issue as above.

Using guide. Tips are clean.

Sent from my GS3 on Cyanogenmod with the older / better version of Tapatalk!

 

[e-rockin-it]

Sounds like your output is short circuiting sort of. My unit is apart on my bench right now, but if you have a multimeter, are you able to turn the unit on in "will let me make a cut" mode, measure the voltage between the tip and ground (should be about 0V). Then if it is about 0V measure the resistance between the two. Make a cut and recreate your problem then do the same. If the voltage is not about 0 then don't do the resistance measurement, you'll probably break your meter. I'm thinking it could be one of the over voltage protection parts inside the unit getting stuck in "protection" mode until you cycle the unit. But I haven't quite figured out all the parts that turn on the OC light yet, still work in progress on my side.

 

[e-rockin-it]

Also does the display show anything when you pull the trigger the second time?

 

[FullRaceMerc]

...As some of you were aware, the Port had a "soft strike", forcing the shipment to Long Beach to be freighted up via train to Seattle. If that never happened, I would have been out ahead with the fees but unfortunately, it cost me more. The original fee was $18.80 ea. based on 120 cutters ordered. This was factored in the price of the cutters. If it wasn't for the "soft strike", the fee would have gone down to $18.58 ea. but instead, it has gone up to $20.17 ea. This puts me about $274 in the red. Some of you have anted up extras and fortunately, it basically took care of that which is a good thing...

I just saw this update to the first post. Sean shouldn't have to give that up. Is [email protected] still the correct addy? Sending a little more to offset the additional cost. Hopefully others will too. Thanks again.

 

[Chuzie]

Also does the display show anything when you pull the trigger the second time?

Just the amps setting.

Sent from my GS3 on Cyanogenmod with the older / better version of Tapatalk!

 

[Disney]

I just saw this update to the first post. Sean shouldn't have to give that up. Is [email protected] still the correct addy? Sending a little more to offset the additional cost. Hopefully others will too. Thanks again.

Sending extra to cover my part of that.

 

[Thegratenate]

I'm a total newb with a plasma, so I'm not sure if I'm having a major or a minor malfunction. Either way I'm gonna need help getting my machine to cut.
I've got dry air cranked all the way up to 60psi amps set at 40, and I get an aggressive crackling subs and a nice little arc coming out of the torch end when I pull the trigger. It goes out as soon as I touch metal. The trigger still releases air but it won't power back up until I've turned the switch off and let the led display go out. I checked my ground back to the front of the machine and it looks like I have good connections all the way. I'm not sure what to try next.
Thank you

 

[wkndwarrior29]

I'm a total newb with a plasma, so I'm not sure if I'm having a major or a minor malfunction. Either way I'm gonna need help getting my machine to cut.
I've got dry air cranked all the way up to 60psi amps set at 40, and I get an aggressive crackling subs and a nice little arc coming out of the torch end when I pull the trigger. It goes out as soon as I touch metal. The trigger still releases air but it won't power back up until I've turned the switch off and let the led display go out. I checked my ground back to the front of the machine and it looks like I have good connections all the way. I'm not sure what to try next.
Thank you

Exactly how did you verify your ground? Did you try new consumables? I initially had issues getting an arc until I swapped out the consumables that were shipped in the machine.

 

[TheOtherChris]

Did you try new consumables? I initially had issues getting an arc until I swapped out the consumables that were shipped in the machine.

I had a similar experience. Once I swapped out the "factory installed" consumable my torch ran smooth.
Now I also opened up the unit BEFORE first power up and checked all connections (many were loose), isolated a few connections from the case (they were close enough a short was a real possibility) and tightened the pilot arc trigger wire in the torch (it was quite loose).

I have since replaced the power cord with a 20 footer and am now quite happy with it.

 

[kirkkw]

Hope you guys continue to give updates regarding performance and your satisfaction.

 

[gnpenning]

while I haven't had a chance to get back to mine...

It will fire right up then cut out. When I release the trigger air still comes out of the gun for about 20 sec. When the air stops it will start back up then shut back off. I even tried to cut a 1/4 bolt and it takes about 4 tries to cut it. I was trying 18 ga sheet metal at first. I have tried different grounds places and grinding clean spots to ground to. I have used up 2 sets of consumables.

When I first got it I removed the cover and checked all the connections as recommended.

Any suggestions???

 

[danscobra6]

Mine is also a Cut-50 pilot arc, just branded different. I found the pilot arc ***** on these unless you find the right air/amp combination. Even then not to consistent. Less air works better. The supplied torch is rated at 60 amps and the included tips are also rated at cutting at 60 amps. They are 1.3 and I replaced them with 1.1's rated at 50 and under amps. Big difference but still sensitive to a good ground and fresh consumables. The best I can get this to work is using a non pilot arc 40 amp torch with drag tips. It does not fail with that torch even with higher better cutting air pressures. Both torches will easily cut 3/8 steel but the non pilot cut is much nicer and a non stop cut. I haven't tried it yet but I doubt the pilot torch would do a continuous cut on expanded metal as it's designed to. Just thought I'd share my experience with these.

The pic is the supplied one that won't see much use.

 

[AnEv942]

I'm a total newb with a plasma, so I'm not sure if I'm having a major or a minor malfunction. Either way I'm gonna need help getting my machine to cut.
I've got dry air cranked all the way up to 60psi amps set at 40, and I get an aggressive crackling subs and a nice little arc coming out of the torch end when I pull the trigger. It goes out as soon as I touch metal. The trigger still releases air but it won't power back up until I've turned the switch off and let the led display go out. I checked my ground back to the front of the machine and it looks like I have good connections all the way. I'm not sure what to try next.
Thank you

Doubtful I can help but question the 'soon as I touch metal' comment?
Are you using the tip stand off? When pulling trigger torch should already be in position, on metal

 

[AnEv942]

On the increase in shipping costs- I agree this shouldn't be absorbed by Sean. He has only acted on our behalf-not selling them to us. That said, for those that have, how are you reimbursing him for the additional $1.37?
Mark

 

[Disney]

I just sent him $10 and hoped that covered it.

 

[Ameshel]

Danscobra6 could you include a photo of the torch that you like and have had better luck with . I got my hands on a pt-31 Esab torch for less then $10 . I hate the present torch and was planing to wire it in when I have a free moment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk, hobbiest ,Hobart 140 mig welder, Hobart ac/dc stick, miller 250 sycrowave tig, thermal dynamics plasma, Chicago electric 180 mig ( modified of course) , Powermatic/Everede mill.

 

[Beemer533]

I just saw this update to the first post. Sean shouldn't have to give that up. Is [email protected] still the correct addy? Sending a little more to offset the additional cost. Hopefully others will too. Thanks again.

I just saw this tonight, I will be sending additional funds as well. Is that email still valid for PayPal?

 

[danscobra6]

Ameshel, These are the non pilot torches that work very well. I have them for the 3 in 1 tig and now for the pilot arc one. They use pt-31 consumables and I use the nickle and extended ones. The other pic is the pilot arc plasma that I think is comparable to yours. I'm still trying to get the pilot arc to do the same thing twice. For now I'm fine with the drag tips.

 

[AnEv942]

I just saw this tonight, I will be sending additional funds as well. Is that email still valid for PayPal?

I just used the [email protected] thru paypal and it linked (sent) to the evmodule account, where original invoice was paid. I, like some earlier, wasnt sure where it might go but seems to have worked.

 

[FullRaceMerc]

I just used the [email protected] thru paypal and it linked (sent) to the evmodule account, where original invoice was paid. I, like some earlier, wasnt sure where it might go but seems to have worked.

That addy ^ still worked when I sent $10 to help offset the extra $274. As others have said, Aquamoose has done a ton of work to pull this off & those unexpected costs shouldn't land on him. Good to see people stepping up. Hopefully enough of us will do so to wipe out that extra cost.


Update quoted from first post:

...As some of you were aware, the Port had a "soft strike", forcing the shipment to Long Beach to be freighted up via train to Seattle. If that never happened, I would have been out ahead with the fees but unfortunately, it cost me more. The original fee was $18.80 ea. based on 120 cutters ordered. This was factored in the price of the cutters. If it wasn't for the "soft strike", the fee would have gone down to $18.58 ea. but instead, it has gone up to $20.17 ea. This puts me about $274 in the red. Some of you have anted up extras and fortunately, it basically took care of that which is a good thing...

 

[Fredfox32]

I agree that Aquamoose has done a fantastic job with this group buy. I have also sent $10 to help with the added expenses.

Thanks again,
Fred

 

[e-rockin-it]

I just finished fixing mine!! Now back to cutting. I made some improvements to it, write up is comming just got behind with shop stuff this week. But as for the pilot arc, my pilot arc was terrible out of the box with fresh consumables, it would work, but was very sensitive to air pressure, also it seemed to blow out a few times, it would restart, but wasn't a good arc. When I was inside fixing mine, there is a pilot arc voltage adjustment (spark gap), on the bottom board. It looks like two brass posts with phillips screws in the top, there are little contacts inside that. Basically you loosen the screw, push the contacts in or out to set the pilot arc voltage. I did some reading online and most people are saying that you need a gap of about 0.030" (feeler gauge) mine was bigger than that, I adjusted mine to 0.030" and the arc is MUCH stronger and consistent.

I probably shouldn't have to mention this but make sure the unit is unplugged when you're inside it, the dangerous voltages on mine disapeared about 10 seconds after the display went out. BTW. Pilot arc section is higher voltage. make sure you stick a piece of metal (like a feeler gauge) across the spark gap (arc distance posts) before you touch with anything else.

 

[danscobra6]

e-rockin-it, I think that is the best point gap. Mine was at .040 and played with every possible gap. .030 is where mine is set now and that is the most consistent. Still not right but better. When I first tried mine I set the gap because of the crappy pilot arc. It ended up the company sent a new HF board with the points on it. That didn't help but it seems like what is is now is what I'll have to live with.

 

[AnEv942]

View media item 52590So I opened mine up...Not adjusting for now as its working but remembered pretty large gap. Checked gap is set .040-.042. Posts are not true to each other. I wondered when I saw these earlier, as some one had mentioned possibly having to adjust gap, if they were what was being referred to. Apparently so

The posts are screwed thru the board-my luck Ill loosen post trying to adjust, though simple, means need to remove entire board which might be easier. So there is an arc jumping between these 2 'points'? Wonder what long term if these would be considered consumable and or if they will need attention. Hmm access to mount screws from underneath might be advantageous-take it apart now when I have time.

 

[Thegratenate]

On the increase in shipping costs- I agree this shouldn't be absorbed by Sean. He has only acted on our behalf-not selling them to us. That said, for those that have, how are you reimbursing him for the additional $1.37?
Mark

I tried to pick up a little bit of the slack for some of the folks who aren't going to, sent $20.

 

[ccrunch]

On the increase in shipping costs- I agree this shouldn't be absorbed by Sean. He has only acted on our behalf-not selling them to us. That said, for those that have, how are you reimbursing him for the additional $1.37?
Mark

Just saw this development...$10 sent to EVModules via PP to help offset shipping issues. Thanks again Sean!

 

[ccrunch]

I just finished fixing mine!! Now back to cutting. I made some improvements to it, write up is comming just got behind with shop stuff this week. But as for the pilot arc, my pilot arc was terrible out of the box with fresh consumables, it would work, but was very sensitive to air pressure, also it seemed to blow out a few times, it would restart, but wasn't a good arc. When I was inside fixing mine, there is a pilot arc voltage adjustment (spark gap), on the bottom board. It looks like two brass posts with phillips screws in the top, there are little contacts inside that. Basically you loosen the screw, push the contacts in or out to set the pilot arc voltage. I did some reading online and most people are saying that you need a gap of about 0.030" (feeler gauge) mine was bigger than that, I adjusted mine to 0.030" and the arc is MUCH stronger and consistent.

I probably shouldn't have to mention this but make sure the unit is unplugged when you're inside it, the dangerous voltages on mine disapeared about 10 seconds after the display went out. BTW. Pilot arc section is higher voltage. make sure you stick a piece of metal (like a feeler gauge) across the spark gap (arc distance posts) before you touch with anything else.

Looking forward to your write-up, mine seems to work fine but nothing wrong with being proactive!

 

[AnEv942]

Me too- also looking forward to the schmatics mentioned earlier that might be drawn up.

So I removed the bottom board to drill access holes to the point post mount screws. Likely never will be needed but could stave off having to remove the board later in adjusting points and inadvertently loosening post(s). However the real motivation in removing board was to drill couple of small holes to restrain the replaced power cord, and air line, which at the time seemed like too much effort. Anyway done...Figuring no time like the present-Sunday and not working on the house carpet replacement turn remodel- an excuse to hang in the shop and piddle doing nothing.
Removed the circuit board. Pretty snug, gently raise and lowered the board 1/8", let the screw threads clearance the board holes. Once board removed drilled access holes for the point post mount screws. Drill a few holes to zip tie the power cord & air line. Dont know how something can be soldered and end up so sharp, back side of the board will rip you.
Any way couple of things I found.

Heres the cord/line zipped down, but more importantly the red wire on the upper wound resistor? literally fell off. Board was holding it so appeared tight. Not sure but I think these may be part of the pilot arc circuit- at least the non pilot unit I looked at didnt have them.


Minor removing the board but turning over discovered what looks like "on the line modification"..ie the trace on board has been (quite crudely) cut and section removed.
On the lower right are the post screws Im drilling holes to gain access to. However when I pulled the board 1st thing I notice are the 2 deep scratches. **** ho'd I do that?

Just a close up of the trace removal. Effective- no continuity between trace and last solder post of the small component on other side... But . I studied for awhile before determining was intentional, I didnt do and just reassembled. Cant imagine why but if anyone else has board off, Or maybe Sean has one of these spare, verification would be nice.

Access to post screws. Adjusted the points after realigning, .035 just cause & I was there, easier while board out. I can reach the screws with small right angle driver but the screws heads are roached and need replacing. Thinking small hex heads if these need adjusting. Any way Sunday afternoon doing absolutely nothing worthwhile. Just a heads up if you happen to have bottom board off-.

 

[e-rockin-it]

AnEv942 There are a few "modifications" on these boards, I hadn't noticed the one on the bottom board that you did aside from the extra diodes in the pilot arc circuit, but there are a few on the top board. Just a note, the wire wound resistors are there to make sure that when you let go of the trigger the voltage on the gun gets pulled down (no risk of continuing to cut or risk of shock) they are also responsible for making sure that when you turn off the power, that the unit actually turns off. Without them I think it would take quite some time before the unit actually shut down.

As for the spark gap posts being misaligned, it wouldn't worry about it, the voltage is going to take the shortest path wherever that is, so it might jump off the edge of the probe, but it's going to anyway usually.

I'm pretty busy in the shop right now, so the write up of what everything in the box does, the symptoms and where to look as well as how I actually fixed mine is coming.

In the mean time, here is a schematic that I dug up for our machines, this is from the manufacturer of CUT-40s. The actual reference designators (R1, C3 D7 etc) seem to differ on our machines, also some of the pin assignments on the control board, shown as control module, seem to be different, but overall the circuit is the same. I've checked most of the values and they also seem correct.

You can grab PDF of schematic here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzlwY875AvbqYmZrbUR2bDc2SjlnQ2Q5Q0d6SDM3WXdNUVlr/view?usp=sharing I've just put it on my shared drive for now, too big to add as attachment to this post I guess unless someone knows how to shrink a PDF.

 

[Chuzie]

My posts we at 0.045 and adjusted to 0.030. I left the cover off and you can see the arc jumping between the posts when there is not sufficient metal to cut or ground. Gonna have to try this on the other unit that has been troublesome and report back.

Sent from my GS3 on Cyanogenmod with the older / better version of Tapatalk!