power for my shop, load panel

[willlgord]

I'm going to run power to my garage off the house meter. I thought about switching the meter box to a feed through type. An electrician friend suggested that instead of going to the trouble of changing the meter socket box I could just add an outdoor load center and split the power there. This way I could pull the meter and do the work myself. Is this a good route to go? The existing meter box is rated 200 amps and I want to feed two 100 amp panels. http://m.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-2-Circuit-2-Space-200-Amp-Main-Breaker-Load-Center/3179801

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Need more info.

Instead of changing anything why not put in a breaker in your main service panel to feed the garage?

Is your main service panel full?

What kind of loads do u have in the house?

 

[theoldwizard1]

An electrician friend suggested that instead of going to the trouble of changing the meter socket box I could just add an outdoor load center and split the power there. This way I could pull the meter and do the work myself. Is this a good route to go?

It will work, but it is expensive. Probably less work than installing a 200A main panel. That is a HUGE box to mount !

As stated, we don't have enough info. For a typical 1 man garage operation 60A is enough which can probably be tapped off of your existing main panel.

Remember you can install a 100A (or larger) panel in the garage and feed it with whatever size cable you want and still limit it to 60A by the breaker you install in the main.

 

[willlgord]

My panel in the house is too small. ....and full. I want to have a 100 amp service in the shop. I guess I could replace the panel in the house with a larger one but I don't want to get into that project right now.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My panel in the house is too small. ....and full. I want to have a 100 amp service in the shop. I guess I could replace the panel in the house with a larger one but I don't want to get into that project right now.

So you are implying that you DO need a larger panel in the house !

I still say the cheapest, quickest solution is a couple of tandem breakers and a 60A breaker in the main panel. Install heavier gauge cable (MHF) with extra looped somewhere for if/when you do that upgrade.

You may have to splice a larger gauge (smaller diameter) wire on to the MHF because the 60A breaker may not accept the larger diameter MHF conductors. 2-2-2-4 MHF is good for 90A, depending on the distance.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I suspect that you currently have only three wires from the meter to your existing house panel. That is how most older installations are done. If you install an outdoor load center supplied from the meter, it will be three wire from the meter to the new load center, but from there to your garage panel AND to the existing house panel, you will need four wires to be code compliant, and at the existing house panel, you will need to separate all grounds and neutrals onto separate bars, with the neutrals being isolated from the panel, and the ground bonded to the panel cabinet.

Is the power company currently supplying you with wiring and transformer that will support 200 amps on your end? If its old, and hasn't been upgraded, you will probably need to get the POCO to do an upgrade. The meter socket also may not be rated for 200 amps and no matter what the meter says on its face, the meter rating needs to be determined to see if it needs replacing...........

If you go to the trouble to do all of that, you might as well install a new combo panel with meter can and main and sub breaker positions. It will be much easier than a bunch of small separate boxes connected together.

In most states it is illegal for anyone other than the POCO to remove a meter, even for maintenance. A misdemeanor at least though state laws vary on this.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In most states it is illegal for anyone other than the POCO to remove a meter, even for maintenance. A misdemeanor at least though state laws vary on this.

Some POCO are very picky about about the brand and type of meter socket you install. I would not install any meter socket until I got approval from the POCO.

 

[willlgord]

I've decided that running power from the existing meter/house will be too much trouble and also expensive. An option I've been trying to avoid is to have a separate meter mounted on the building. I've already spoken to the power company engineer about this and they will trench the service in from the pole and mount the meter for $200. The downside is the $20/month charge for the second meter which will be added to every monthly bill. Thanks for the advice anyways.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can u post some pics of your main panel?

Why do u say it would be expensive?

The cost to do the feeder will eventually be paid off what with a $20/mon meter fee....

 

[theoldwizard1]

The downside is the $20/month charge for the second meter which will be added to every monthly bill. Thanks for the advice anyways.

$240/year for the privilege of getting a separate bill ? That is a lot of downside !!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The downside is the $20/month charge for the second meter which will be added to every monthly bill.

Wow, thats high. My fixed charge is $10. I thought it was more, I think it used to be about $14, but it was pointed out to me where GA Power has the rate tariffs posted, and the tariffs say $10 mo.

That same discussion linked to rate tariffs for Modesto California, and the fixed monthly charge was $12.50.

Actually, after looking at Duke Energy's South Carolina Rate Tariffs, you really might want to talk to the business office. The basic facilities charge is $8.29 month for residential, and for "small general service" the basic facilities charge is only $10.52 per month and a demand charge of $3.99 mo when you exceed 30kWh.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wow, thats high. My fixed charge is $10. I thought it was more, I think it used to be about $14, but it was pointed out to me where GA Power has the rate tariffs posted, and the tariffs say $10 mo.

That same discussion linked to rate tariffs for Modesto California, and the fixed monthly charge was $12.50.

Actually, after looking at Duke Energy's South Carolina Rate Tariffs, you really might want to talk to the business office. The basic facilities charge is $8.29 month for residential, and for "small general service" the basic facilities charge is only $10.52 per month and a demand charge of $3.99 mo when you exceed 30kWh.

yeah that was me.

MIDs rates are a rip off and they are illegally stealing money from us electricity customers and using it as subsidies to keep the farmer's water rates artificially low. An attorney has already advised them of this and several court cases in other parts of the state have nailed other utilities for the same practice and said they must give the money back to the electricity customers...

Just the reason why i started a facebook page about it:

www.facebook.com/OccupyMID

 

[Falcon67]

Wow, thats high. My fixed charge is $10. I thought it was more, I think it used to be about $14, but it was pointed out to me where GA Power has the rate tariffs posted, and the tariffs say $10 mo.

Co-op minimum here is $35/mth.

I had asked the Poco about this when we moved in, they dropped a 6 breaker box (has only two handles in it) right off the meter box for me and I ran my power to the shop from there.

 

[willlgord]

I've thought this over...and yes, $18 will be hard to swallow. I talked to the power company and they said that the $18 is subject to change (increase). I've done more research on the main panel I have in the house which I assumed was 100 amp or lower due to the fact that the largest breaker in it was 60amps. What I found was I have a split buss box which has no main, there are 6 double pole breakers 30-60 amps each. I pulled the cover off and found that the service wire from the meter is a 4/0 (200 amps). I'm going to replace the house panel and feed the shop with a 100amp breaker and 2-2-2-4 in an underground conduit. I talked to the codes dept. and will get a homeowner permit to do the work and the inspection. The power company will pull and replace the the meter.

 

[thecj3man]

I've thought this over...and yes, $18 will be hard to swallow. I talked to the power company and they said that the $18 is subject to change (increase). I've done more research on the main panel I have in the house which I assumed was 100 amp or lower due to the fact that the largest breaker in it was 60amps. What I found was I have a split buss box which has no main, there are 6 double pole breakers 30-60 amps each. I pulled the cover off and found that the service wire from the meter is a 4/0 (200 amps). I'm going to replace the house panel and feed the shop with a 100amp breaker and 2-2-2-4 in an underground conduit. I talked to the codes dept. and will get a homeowner permit to do the work and the inspection. The power company will pull and replace the the meter.

I wen through the same decisions a couple years ago. I ended up with a separate meter for my Garage and Barn and a 200 amp service. I just wish my POCO bill would have been 200$ for the installation. My minimum bill is 17.50$ a month. Sometimes I wish I had upgraded the house to a higher service and fed the garage with 150 or 200 amps. But the money is spent now.

One factor that influenced me at the time was the power draw for my welder. My dad has a 90 amp feed to his garage from his house. I could not weld aluminum plate at his house, even with all the lights, fans, and beer fridge turned off.

Also, I was much more green at understanding electricity. If I was doing it now, I would definitely give more consideration to using the house to feed the Garage.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . . . post up PIC's of your main panel (cover on . . . and . . . cover off). Also post pic of your meter can and meter.

What is distance from house to garage ??

GJ Sparkies will give you best advice with more information.

Do NOT recommend you let the PoCo scam you into fixed monthly $25 to $30 bill for "convenience" of them sending you another statement. You may not even use much electricity in shop so you're spending HUNDREDS per year for nothing.

Trench the run to garage yourself and install 2" sch 40 plastic conduit at proper depth. GJ Sparkies will steer you to WIRE you need and subpanel as well.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I've thought this over...and yes, $18 will be hard to swallow. I talked to the power company and they said that the $18 is subject to change (increase). I've done more research on the main panel I have in the house which I assumed was 100 amp or lower due to the fact that the largest breaker in it was 60amps. What I found was I have a split buss box which has no main, there are 6 double pole breakers 30-60 amps each. I pulled the cover off and found that the service wire from the meter is a 4/0 (200 amps). I'm going to replace the house panel and feed the shop with a 100amp breaker and 2-2-2-4 in an underground conduit. I talked to the codes dept. and will get a homeowner permit to do the work and the inspection. The power company will pull and replace the the meter.

Split buss panels are disgusting. Good idea on replacing it.

The #2 AL will need to be protected with a 90a breaker NOT 100a!