50 amp j box for shop

[ATX 4x4]

I've searched and searched with negative results for the answer to this so here goes....

I get 12v electrical but house stuff blows my mind! I'm ready to bang my head on the wall. Thanks in advance fellas.

Building a house now. I want a 30x40 shop behind it in the future. I asked builder to do something electrical to make wiring the shop easier in the future. He suggested a 50amp j box wired to the back side of the home to tie the shop into.

Uses for this particular shop are boat storage, fluorescent lighting overhead, maybe 1-2 floodlights, misc. hand power tools, battery chargers for boat, shop fan. No AC but maybe a small portable space heater?

50amp means squat to me so any assistance, guidance, or direction is much appreciated.

Maybe some hypothetical loads? Ie, appropriate number of overhead flo light plus tools? Want to do it right.

If this has been discussed, please post link to thread.

Thanks a million guys.

 

[poteau]

I am assuming you are meaning he would like to install a 50 amp sub panel in your detached garage. With the loads you mentioned a 50 amp panel would easily take the load. But consider this: 50 amp is a little small and these are the kind of things you want to go big on in the beginning. If your house has 200amp service, without a doubt look into putting in a 100amp panel in your shop. This way it will allow you or the next person who may buy the house after you to have plenty of room for all the toys like woodworking tools, compressor, lift, welder. Etc etc. (think resale) You don't want to upgrade it later on.

You could get away with a 60 amp sub panel in an attached double garage or a one stall garage but with the size you mentioned, I wouldn't hesitate to go big.

-Richard

 

[Shiftless]

Good advice ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[justsam]

If I understand your post, the shop is a FUTURE build. Depending on where your existing electrical panel is, it may well make sense to have the electrician install a j-box for future connection.

If your existing electrical panel would be reasonably easy to access when you build your shop, than the J-box adds little and would just be another pont of failure.

If you have a decent electrician, and both of you have a good understanding of your FUTURE need, I would let him make the call. Based on your description of future uses, 50 or 60 Amps sounds fine. How long of run will it be to the FUTURE shop?

 

[nine4gmc]

The shop at our new place came with a 60a sub panel and I wanted to upgrade to 100a but it's been over a year and I am no where near maxing it out like I thought. I have six 8' double fluorescents going and a number of 4' shop lights, couple task lights etc and I can run a welder, plasma cutter or lathe along with anything else I may need so I have been pleased with the 60a service. I do agree 50a may be too small but just depends on your future needs.

 

[ATX 4x4]

I def agree this is where I need to go big and have it done right but I don't want to go too big for my budget. Are there amperage options above 60 before 100?

The run will be approximately 40-60' underground. If I don't have this sub panel done down, it will be significantly longer.

Thanks all, knew I could count on this board for solid info.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I def agree this is where I need to go big and have it done right but I don't want to go too big for my budget. Are there amperage options above 60 before 100?

The run will be approximately 40-60' underground. If I don't have this sub panel done down, it will be significantly longer.

Thanks all, knew I could count on this board for solid info.

Yes, u can do almost anything in between.

If youre unsure of what u want, why not just run 2" conduit for now and pull the wire later.

At that distance, #2 AL MHF would easily fit the bill($1.5/ft) amd give u 90a capacity in the barn! Plenty for what youre doing and leaves room for expansion!

 

[ATX 4x4]

Got it. Thanks.

I need to find the electrician and hammer him down. Our builder is hesitant to put a sub panel (larger than 50 amp) on the back side of the house for the future shop. Something to do with the size of the connection installed from the meter to the house.

Problem is that meter is at the road, front of house is 70' from the meter. Back side of house is another 65' and then the front of the shop will be 40-60' from the back side of the house. For liability purposes, and perhaps his lack of electrical knowledge, he says 30 or 50 amp are my only options unless I have the electric company come out and install a larger whatever that is at the meter box.

I failed to mention house is currently under construction. We're trying to wrap up all mechanicals now so may be too late to add much more power for future shop since electrical from meter to house has already been run.

All utilities are underground and where we are is nearly 100% limestone beneath 6" of dirt so running direct from meter to shop is not possible without spending tons of cash.

 

[sberry]

You will not overload the house and you should consult the sparkie vs the builder here. At that distance you could use a 60A cable also.

 

[justsam]

With house still under construction and the shop a future build, just putting a small (small in terms of breaker count) at rear of house sounds like the right idea. This could also be a connection point for other outdoor items such as hot tub, future patio, landscape lighting, etc. Sounds like a 60 Amp capacity would meet your needs. Now is the time to do it!

If you are dealing with limestone and you do not have the future shop location determined, it would be difficult to place conduit for future use and get it right.

 

[ATX 4x4]

Spoke to electrician via the builder this morning. 200 amp service to house. He says because house is all electric, electrician won't go larger than 60 amp to the sub panel.

Had I known all this I would have gone 320 amp service from the beginning. We live and learn. Thanks for the tips all. Once the house is up I'll finally get started on my shop!...which is all I'm really after anyway.

 

[Slowgsr]

Spoke to electrician via the builder this morning. 200 amp service to house. He says because house is all electric, electrician won't go larger than 60 amp to the sub panel.

Had I known all this I would have gone 320 amp service from the beginning. We live and learn. Thanks for the tips all. Once the house is up I'll finally get started on my shop!...which is all I'm really after anyway.

Do you have a very large AC? Im guessing texas you domt use much heat, but how big is your house?

Your electrician doesnt know what hes talking about, it's unfortunate really. Just sounds like he doesnt want to do the work.

My dads house is 6000sqft, has a single 200a service (i installed) then we have a 150a sqd breaker feeding the shop which is 600' away, 3" conduit, with 3/0 cu in it.

Unless youve got walk in freezers, coolers, 4 ovens, 6 tons of AC, 2 well pumps, irrigation pumps, a bunch of electric hwt and so on youll never overload it.

Edit - burry a 2" for future then do your own.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . . listen to the good GJ advice you're getting.

Bury 2" plastic conduit (sch 40 underground and sch 80 above ground) from your main electrical panel to the planned location of shop (or at least roughed in from house panel and heading out to shop).

Your electrician is NOT in charge of what you do . . . he's giving you run-a-round on mediocre idea for your shop. I would NOT want to up front limit shop to 50A which could be limiting factor later, and reduce re-sell ability for house/shop later.

As GJ Sparkie has pointed out . . . . BEST Solution is MHF (mobile home feeder) Aluminum 2-2-2-4 at $1.50/ft giving you 90A at the shop.

Do It Once . . . Do It Right !!

Now IF you are planning hot tub, etc then the J box "could" serve a purpose. However, it is not necessarily a good solution for shop wiring. The J box might be better actually for standby generator . . . IF . . . your main panel has interlock breaker feeding the J box.

 

[ATX 4x4]

Just shy of 2800 ft

 

[4x4_G30_Sportvan]

Ah, Comal Co., TX. New Braunsfels area.

I would certsinly talk to the electrician and say you are paying him, and you want 100 amp service, in a nice manner of course.

An all electric house is irrelevant to what you want. The ONLY reason he could NOT do as you wish is because local code PROHIBITS it. I highly doubt that for your area.

 

[ATX 4x4]

Man, this is bizarre. I really appreciate this guys. We're having our pre-sheetrock meeting at the house tomorrow to confirm all mechanicals are where we want them before we move on. I suppose we'll see tomorrow.

 

[Slowgsr]

Suggest a pair of 2" conduits are run to your garage for 'future'. Power & data/comm

Say your wifes cousins husband is an electrician and suggested this if you dont want to reference 'reading it online'

 

[ATX 4x4]

lol perfect.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Is the meter at the road a temp meter being used during construction or is it's permanent home ? If it's temp and a meter base is getting attached to the house, I'd suggest looking at a meter base with some breakers in it.

 

[ATX 4x4]

Well...I had enough today. We agreed on 60 amp stub out on the back side of the house nearest where the shop will go. Electrician would not budge and we've been at a 3 week stand-still pending the out come of this and a few other minor electrical debacles.

It is what it is. So in the name of progress, we're driving on! I'll pay another electrician down the line if I need more power.

Thanks to all who assisted for sure.

 

[NUTTSGT]

You do what you have to do but why let the electrican dictate options that you want or are paying for ? I understand if it's against local code.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well...I had enough today. We agreed on 60 amp stub out on the back side of the house nearest where the shop will go. Electrician would not budge and we've been at a 3 week stand-still pending the out come of this and a few other minor electrical debacles.

It is what it is. So in the name of progress, we're driving on! I'll pay another electrician down the line if I need more power.

Thanks to all who assisted for sure.

WTH? Youre the customer right? So why is the electrician dixtating what u want or what u can have?

Is he a sub hired by the general? If not, hire someone else! He clearly doesnt have your interests at mind!

Has he done load calcs to see if his claims are correct that u cant have a bigger feed to the garage?

Why wont he just run conduit out to where the garage will be? Putting a job is just a waste of money and time.