New home garage floor crack

[zdech123]

I am moving into a new construction home in a little over a week and we walked through last week. The garage was poured about 2 months ago and already has a crack running the length of it. There are expansion cuts in the floor but this crack is running from the driveway to the house wall. I can drag my shoe and catch it but it is not a crater or anything.
I know nothing about concrete and assume eventually it will all crack a little. However, we have not moved in yet and have the official walk through later this week. Obviously I will point it out to them but other than that I don't know how they could remedy it. Should I make a big stink about it? Try and get them to pay for a floor coating? Is 2 months an extremely fast time for a new pour to crack? How big of a deal would "experts" say this is?

Thanks for any input.


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[machsnell]

What is size and what are the control joint sizes cut to?

If they have cuts in it i wouldn't be too happy.

Probably typically poorly prepared subgrade or poor backfill next to foundation wall or footings.


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[T.Beard]

Concrete cracks. The expansion joints are put in to TRY and help control the cracks. There is no way to guarantee that's where the crack goes. It happens...no biggies.

 

[James-W]

A picture of the crack would be nice.

 

[CombatNinja]

My house is 20 years old and not a single crack in my garage other than the control joint of course. I personally would not accept a brand new slab that is already cracked. I'd push for a repour and after they freak out about spending $3000 to fix it, compromise on a professionally applied epoxy floor done by a contractor of your choosing.

 

[James-W]

I'd push for a repour and after they freak out about spending $3000 to fix it, compromise on a professionally applied epoxy floor done by a contractor of your choosing.

It would be nice if the seller would do that, but I wouldn't hold my breath until they do.

 

[Zeke]

Concrete cracks. The expansion joints are put in to TRY and help control the cracks. There is no way to guarantee that's where the crack goes. It happens...no biggies.

I don't agree. For instance, if this was a post-tensioned slab, there would be no cracks. Now or in the future. Crack free concrete can be done — even w/o PT.

First thing I'd do it pull a core or 3 and look at the thickness. Then send it to the testing lab. Don't sign the final papers until this is done.

 

[404]

Make them tear it out and pour it properly with mesh or rebar in it. They cut the corners on the floor to save a few dollars. Does the ground freeze where you are?

 

[Slowgsr]

Your going to be sol.

Poor backfill/compaction in builder grade homes, more to be worried about that you cant see, unfortunately.

 

[CNGsaves]

Sad to hear about that OP . . . you'll get best advice from GJ guru's by providing as much information as possible. WHERE are you located ?? I'll guess you're in new Canada housing addition ??
Update GJ Profile with City / State / Country.

What was temp when garage was poured and preparation BEFORE and AFTER the pour ??

Let's SEE the painful pics . . . Here is GJ Pic Posting 101:
. . . . Edit 1st post, Go Advanced, Manage Attachments, Browse, locate up to 7 pics on your harddrive for the 7 boxes, Upload, Close this window, Save Changes.

Welcome to GJ . . . and here's your first initiation to NeedPics !!

 

[boobag]

if you havent closed yet, you can still request the floor be fixed. as soon as you close, you'll hear all kind of excuses.

 

[zdech123]

Thanks for the responses. I live in Cincinnati, Ohio; it does freze up here. It was poured around June/July so it was hot. We didn't have very much rain this summer if that matters. My wife and I have been checking progress throughout the build so I know the crack happened in the last 2 weeks. So from June/July it was fine up until around the first week of sept. It is a new construction home so it was poured by a builder, or at least sublet out under their "control". I have the official walk through tomorrow and will take and post pics.

It is a subdivision and the house is mass produced so I am expecting some little problems but the cracked floor was surprising. But like I said, I'm not an expert but know many of you guys are which is why I asked.

I will get pics and also talk with the builder when we walk through tomorrow. I can only assume the floor/crack(s) will get worse if this happened in 2 months time so I want to be prepared.

I am working with a builder and have already put a small deposit down, only a couple percent, but I can't tell them just to shove it. I'm not going to walk away from the house but I don't want a messed to floor, now or in the future so any input is appreciated

Thanks again guys.


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[BRIANBB]

This brings to bare why it is so important to hire an inspector that is experienced in new home construction. Just because it is new does not mean you have to settle for sub par construction. My inlaws had three inspections during the build of their home in an upscale neighborhood and each time the report was 20-30 pages of needed repairs. Builders(especially in Houston) are in for a rude awakening once the economy hits the dumper and they cant sell houses. Now its a free for all slapping homes up. Get an inspection and dont sign off on anything till the issues are rectified. Good luck in your new home.

 

[Renfrick1]

If you take dry concrete mix and pour it in the crack let it sit the moisture will harden it. Some may say bs but it works. For what it cost to do it you have nothing to lose

 

[zdech123]

Took a couple pics with my phone so they aren't the best. The builder basically said if its not 3/8 inch apart they won't do anything so that's not what I wanted to hear.
Like I said, I expect some shifting and cracking but just not this soon. And another crack formed perpendicular to the original one over the last few days.
Hopefully I can post these pics, here goes:

 

[CombatNinja]

That pour is ****. It is cracking parallel and adjacent to their "control" joint. I would go find another house to buy. Mass produced new construction fortunately does grow on trees. There will be 1000 other issues with this house that you can't see if that is the level of workmanship they allow.

 

[Zeke]

That's just not right. Find out why. Read my previous post.

 

[NZ0J]

I don't agree. For instance, if this was a post-tensioned slab, there would be no cracks. Now or in the future. Crack free concrete can be done — even w/o PT.

First thing I'd do it pull a core or 3 and look at the thickness. Then send it to the testing lab. Don't sign the final papers until this is done.

Yeah, pretty sure the holes from the cores will look worse than the cracks.

I'd check the depth of the saw joints, with the way it cracked next to the saw joint, I'd guess they might be a little shallow. The other crack is coming off a corner, have seen that a million times. I highly doubt there is anything structurally wrong with the concrete, looks like they just cut some corners on the saw joints.

 

[toplessHO]

cracks can be repaired but more may surface in the next few months too
I dont buy into the BS that if crack isnt 3/8 wide theres nothing builder can do
control joints not deep enough(or cut soon enough) and could even be no moisture barrier
under the slab,along with drying out too fast in hot summer.
It will never get better only worst dont take no for an answer and dont cave in.

 

[lane_change]

Is this a post tension cable or steel rebar? Is this a slab or is it on some form of footings or piers? I am going through a similar experience with a post tension cable pour on a slab home. They just did the pour and you can already identify surface cracks in the foundation. From what I understand, once they adjust the post tension cables after about 7-10 days, the flooring may tighten up some and make these paper thick cracks less visible. I was told that if it is under 1/8" thick it will likely be nothing more than a cosmetic blemish, between 1/8" and 1/4" should be inspected by a structural engineer and anything over 1/4" will require structural repair to the foundation. I have photographed the current condition and will be meeting with the engineer when they come back out to get their opinion and advice.

 

[toplessHO]

other question is are there more cracks in the main house area?
If not then they most likely skipped the vapor barrier and or re enforcement in the garage

 

[zdech123]

It has a basement and I have not noticed any cracks down there. I am not sure what vapor barrier they installed in the garage. The neighborhood is still being built so I can sneak on to other sites and check out the pre pour and also if any other houses have cracked garages.

I thought 3/8 sounded pretty wide to be the minimum that would require repair.

 

[NZ0J]

other question is are there more cracks in the main house area?
If not then they most likely skipped the vapor barrier and or re enforcement in the garage

Are you trying to say vapor barrier and rebar will prevent a slab from cracking?

 

[SwerveDriver]

That crack looks like they poured a load of watery **** instead of real concrete. Once all the excess water evaporated the concrete had to shrink and it cracked. I don't know why it didn't follow the cuts unless they cut it after the cracks started or were complete. Going forward I could see large pieces cracking and coming out where the crack is parallel to the cut. If you're dead set on buying the house at least get something substantial knocked off the price if they will not replace the floor. At the end of the day- its your money and your call but I'd be looking for a substantial discount on the purchase price to cover the repair or replace.
Best-
SD

 

[tncatadjuster]

Looks like it could have been cut after the cracks occurred, core it and see what's there. Take a healthy allowance or replace.

 

[zdech123]

The cuts were there prior to the cracks, I visited the site many times so I know that these cracks are about 2 weeks old. The pour and cuts are about 3 months old.

 

[tam]

If they continue to refuse to repair the damage you could threaten to tell all potential purchasers about the cracks in your floor if it's not properly fixed. If that gets out there then any potential buyers might be turned away and they wouldn't want that to happen...

 

[boobag]

The cuts were there prior to the cracks, I visited the site many times so I know that these cracks are about 2 weeks old. The pour and cuts are about 3 months old.

the floor should have been cut soon after pouring. no more than a day later, otherwise shrinkage cracks start. perhaps the cracks werent visible then.
that looks bad.

 

[zdech123]

I appreciate all the responses. I don't think I explained myself in full earlier; we had this house built in a subdivision so unless we want to walk away from our deposit and all the things that we picked out we are going to buy it. We contacted the builder this morning to see the documentation that says a crack up to 3/8 is acceptable because I don't believe that.
Seeing that we want this house, what are some repair options to talk with the builder about?
Tearing it all up and re pouring it?
Fixing just those cracks?
A coating or epoxy?

Once we hear back from the builder, depending on what they say we will move forward, be it taking a core for testing or something that they recommend.

Thanks again guys

 

[Kevin54]

For the ones that say rip it out and make them pour it over and make sure they use mesh or rebar......mesh or rebar DOES NOT PREVENT CRACKS. The base material, the compaction of the base material, and the mix of the concrete, along with how much the concrete is worked CAN prevent cracks, but still not 100% guaranteed. Rebar prevents the concrete from creating a trip hazard when it cracks. Mesh prevents it from pulling apart when it cracks. Control joints are supposed to control where the concrete cracks, but then again, not a 100% guarantee.

We poured my concrete during the same timeframe, June/July, and it was super hot that morning and pushing close to 90 when we poured. My base was compacted to the point that it was damn near like concrete itself. It was not overworked at all. I also had a vapor barrier down so no moisture would run out. I had cracks the next morning.

 

[yaidunno]

I would inquire with your builder about nominal pour depth (i'd assume 4"), what concrete spec was called out (PSI, mix ratio), and what was used for reinforcement. Personally, i would not accept that. If that's what it does after 3 months, whats going to happen in 3 years? The best epoxy in the world wont hide cracks and settling.

 

[James-W]

I appreciate all the responses. I don't think I explained myself in full earlier; we had this house built in a subdivision so unless we want to walk away from our deposit and all the things that we picked out we are going to buy it. We contacted the builder this morning to see the documentation that says a crack up to 3/8 is acceptable because I don't believe that.
Seeing that we want this house, what are some repair options to talk with the builder about?
Tearing it all up and re pouring it?
Fixing just those cracks?
A coating or epoxy?

Once we hear back from the builder, depending on what they say we will move forward, be it taking a core for testing or something that they recommend.

Thanks again guys

Thanks for explaining the situation in more detail. I had thought you were buying a house in a sub-division from the builder.

I have no idea what the best way to go about fixing this problem would be, probably ripping out the concrete and re-pouring it would be the right way, but would cost the most so the builder isn't going to want to do that. If the builder refuses to fix it to your satisfaction, then I suspect the next step is to contact an attorney who specializes in this type of problem and see what he/she recommends.

 

[404]

For the ones that say rip it out and make them pour it over and make sure they use mesh or rebar......mesh or rebar DOES NOT PREVENT CRACKS. The base material, the compaction of the base material, and the mix of the concrete, along with how much the concrete is worked CAN prevent cracks, but still not 100% guaranteed. Rebar prevents the concrete from creating a trip hazard when it cracks. Mesh prevents it from pulling apart when it cracks. Control joints are supposed to control where the concrete cracks, but then again, not a 100% guarantee.

We poured my concrete during the same timeframe, June/July, and it was super hot that morning and pushing close to 90 when we poured. My base was compacted to the point that it was damn near like concrete itself. It was not overworked at all. I also had a vapor barrier down so no moisture would run out. I had cracks the next morning.

Concrete should have been covered with plastic, and water run under the plastic to keep the top soaking wet for 3 days.

I followed this rule on my side walk I mixed and poured myself. No cracks. No control joints. 5 years old in Mass climate. Does have a LOT of rebar in it.

 

[CNGsaves]

That pour is ****. It is cracking parallel and adjacent to their "control" joint. I would go find another house to buy. Mass produced new construction fortunately does grow on trees. There will be 1000 other issues with this house that you can't see if that is the level of workmanship they allow.

^ ^ ^ This. Ninja nailed it that your concrete is ****. Do NOT buy that ****.

That poor construction is tell-tale sign of many other hidden problems.

Also, the **** concrete, and builder's refusal to fix, give you Contract Breech to walk away . . . AND . . . get every single penny of your Earnest Money back.

Do NOT get ripped off by those hacks.

 

[T.Beard]

Is the builder a national track builder? If so, they aren't going to fix it. It sounds like this is a big track builder, from the messages you've posted. Again, they aren't going to fix it unless it gets larger than 3/8 of an inch. You can say or do what you want and threaten all you want. It won't change a thing. Trust me, I used to work for a national production builder and said No to people all the time regarding this very topic.

Go,back to my original post....concrete cracks. Period. I don't care what you do, vapor barrier/rebar/mesh, etc. It cracks. No one, I don't care what they say, can control where it cracks. We can try, but there is simply no way to control it.

Its a small hairline crack....it likely won't get any worse. I'm laughing my **** off at these people saying it will separate and large chunks coming out down the road. Its fine, it won't hurt the floor or the house and honestly, you won't notice after the first week of living there. If you plan to coat the floor, it certainly won't matter then either.

Ignore the crack, stop worrying over a hairline crack, buy your house and move on.

 

[AMCguy]

Wow. If the builder is this tough to deal with before the sale, I'd hate to think what to expect if you have a problem after he has your money.

It sounds like you signed a deal in which anything less than a 3/8 crack was acceptable though, so you may just have to tough it.

 

[NZ0J]

Is the builder a national track builder? If so, they aren't going to fix it. It sounds like this is a big track builder, from the messages you've posted. Again, they aren't going to fix it unless it gets larger than 3/8 of an inch. You can say or do what you want and threaten all you want. It won't change a thing. Trust me, I used to work for a national production builder and said No to people all the time regarding this very topic.

Go,back to my original post....concrete cracks. Period. I don't care what you do, vapor barrier/rebar/mesh, etc. It cracks. No one, I don't care what they say, can control where it cracks. We can try, but there is simply no way to control it.

Its a small hairline crack....it likely won't get any worse. I'm laughing my **** off at these people saying it will separate and large chunks coming out down the road. Its fine, it won't hurt the floor or the house and honestly, you won't notice after the first week of living there. If you plan to coat the floor, it certainly won't matter then either.

Ignore the crack, stop worrying over a hairline crack, buy your house and move on.

Thank you. Some of the **** I read on hear just makes me shake my head. We seem to have a lot of concrete experts on here that know absolutely nothing about concrete. I'm with you, that crack isn't going anywhere.

 

[toplessHO]

do they not have fiberous concrete in your location?
And I dont use this in lieu of re enforcement ie mesh,matting or rebar

 

[boobag]

Thank you. Some of the **** I read on hear just makes me shake my head. We seem to have a lot of concrete experts on here that know absolutely nothing about concrete. I'm with you, that crack isn't going anywhere.

if course the crack is not going anywhere. most cracks are cosmetic, but they look horrible. and on a new house already?

 

[56rpm]

For the ones that say rip it out and make them pour it over and make sure they use mesh or rebar......mesh or rebar DOES NOT PREVENT CRACKS. The base material, the compaction of the base material, and the mix of the concrete, along with how much the concrete is worked CAN prevent cracks, but still not 100% guaranteed. Rebar prevents the concrete from creating a trip hazard when it cracks. Mesh prevents it from pulling apart when it cracks. Control joints are supposed to control where the concrete cracks, but then again, not a 100% guarantee.

We poured my concrete during the same timeframe, June/July, and it was super hot that morning and pushing close to 90 when we poured. My base was compacted to the point that it was damn near like concrete itself. It was not overworked at all. I also had a vapor barrier down so no moisture would run out. I had cracks the next morning.

Thank you for posting this Kevin. After reading many of these cracked concrete slab threads I thought a was the lone wolf. I too prepped my foundation as you did. My footings are wider and deeper than code and the slab is 5" thick. I used #4 rebar in the footings and #3 in the slab. Slab rebar is 16" on center. I flooded the slab for days after the HOT July pour. The 3/8" deep joints are 18' squares.

About a month later I noticed cracks. Too many for my liking, but...concrete cracks. The only thing I can figure is they put water in the mix to help it thru the pumper. It was poured in 2003 without any other issues. C'est la vie.