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discouraged...

Lewisthepilgrim

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Dec 9, 2011
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seacoast NH
I've been pre-planning a garage for a while now. Well today I called the building inspector to try and see what I need to move forward. He told me because my current garage (10x29) is so close to the road, and the property line that I will need an zoning variance. I will need to have a surveyor out, and get engineered plans. He also hinted that I am close to a wetland and that much also be an issue???

I'm pretty bummed. I really wanted to get something up before the snow hits....now I'm thinking it might not even be worth it.

Anyone had to deal with this?:dunno:
 
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Leaflessshadetree

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Don't ask.
I had to get a variance. Zoning rules said 25 ft setback. I wanted to build 3-6 ft off the property line (I have an existing building at that setback). I requested a hearing (I believe they do them once a month). I took a few days and prepared my presentation. I found an old survey where the properties had been divided. Sketched my planned location. Had photographs of the site. I wrote up my request in plain English (stating that I would be building in line with the existing building).
I had a copy of the presentation printed for each board member.
I also had one neighbor write a letter that he was OK with my plans. The neighbor that would be affected the most (On that property line) went to the hearing with me.
It only took 5-10 minutes, a few questions from the board members and it was OK'd.

Other people didn't have much of anything prepared for their requests. (I think there were 4 or 5 requests on that evening). They seemed to get hit with a lot more questions. Also at least one was carried over to the next meeting so they could get more information.

Do your homework. He gave you clues on what areas to cover. Could the building cause any interference with the roadway (drifting snow, ditches, future expansion)? How is it in relation to the wetlands?
 

Stuart in MN

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I had to get a variance for my garage (because of the height) but I was successful. It's a pain, but as long as you're not asking for something way over the limits and you properly prepare it's not so bad. It does take time, though - considering it's almost October you're probably talking about construction next spring, even without having to get a variance.
 

Ponchoguy

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I've been pre-planning a garage for a while now. Well today I called the building inspector to try and see what I need to move forward. He told me because my current garage (10x26) is so close to the road, and the property line that I will need an zoning variance. I will need to have a surveyor out, and get engineered plans. He also hinted that I am close to a wetland and that much also be an issue???

I'm pretty bummed. I really wanted to get something up before the snow hits....now I'm thinking it might not even be worth it.

Anyone had to deal with this?:dunno:

If you want fun, deal with the NYC Buildings Dept. Actually, I did have a guy there that was VERY helpful in answering my questions. Basically, it was "If you try to do something silly, it will just get bogged down in bureaucracy", versus, "If you consult us and ask, we'll help you".

Have you talked to an architect? They usually deal with "city hall" and have contacts there that can help.
 

Stuart in MN

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Other people didn't have much of anything prepared for their requests. (I think there were 4 or 5 requests on that evening). They seemed to get hit with a lot more questions. Also at least one was carried over to the next meeting so they could get more information.

I saw the same thing - when I appeared before the board, I noticed the other people who were there trying to get variances had hardly prepared at all. I think that actually helped me...when I got up to plead my case and provided all the information, the board was happy to finally talk to someone who was taking it seriously.
 

sixty4

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CT
I had a neighbor that was slamming his hand on the podium during my variance meeting, saying he did not want to see a garage put up. Best advice I can give you get a Zoning attorney if need be. Oh and mine went through 5-0 after all that I think he helped me more than anything! Never give up if it is something you want.
 

Ponchoguy

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how much did the surveyor run you guys?

In NYC, mine was about $1200. He came recommended. I wasn't even home when he did my property. My mother handled it as I was at work. She said the guy was there for 4 hours with another guy. He even marked the concrete for us.

Best thing was? He didn't bill me for 3 months. I said to him, "I owe ya money and you don't know me from a hole in the wall". He said, "No issue, when I get to it, I'll mail you a bill".

He did, and I sent him an e-check. Most professional guy I have ever dealt with.
 

theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
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SE MI
... today I called the building inspector to try and see what I need to move forward. He told me because my current garage (10x26) is so close to the road, and the property line that I will need an zoning variance.
Start by getting a copy of the survey document your city/township has on file. If you have purchased your home recently, a survey should be in your mortgage package. Sketch in you planned new garage with a different color ink.

Go to the building department and have them mark on your copy where you are not in compliance with the current code.

The last question to ask is, "What if I am just expanding the current building ?" If you keep the front corner of the building closest to the road and your lot line, they will typically allow you to expand the building quite a bit without getting a variance.

I will need to have a surveyor out, ...
I am not sure why, unless the city wants to make sure there are no undocumented structures/additions on any of the building since the last survey was filed with the city.

... get engineered plans.
Not uncommon. These will be reviewed and then used in the future to make certain the building is "built to spec".

He also hinted that I am close to a wetland and that much also be an issue???
This could be the killer. Most states will not let you do ANY improvement on a designated wetland. Different states have different procedures for "declaring" wetlands.
 

theoldwizard1

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SE MI
I saw the same thing - when I appeared before the board, I noticed the other people who were there trying to get variances had hardly prepared at all. I think that actually helped me...when I got up to plead my case and provided all the information, the board was happy to finally talk to someone who was taking it seriously.
Around here, the hearing is "public" and notices are sent to your neighbors. Getting a preemptive approval letter from neighbors on all side will go a long way to getting approval from the zoning board. Type up and print out the letter yourself. Personally take it and sketch of what you are planing to each of your neighbors. Spend a few minutes with each one and ask them to sign the letter.

I got my tax assessment reduced when I presented pictures of my house and 2 others in the neighborhood that were basically identical that had lower assessments. Of course I did not mention there were others in the neighborhood with higher assessments ! Preparation is key.
 
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Lewisthepilgrim

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Dec 9, 2011
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91
Location
seacoast NH
awesome info. thanks guys !

How much did you guys taxes go up after a garage? I really just want a simple 10x18 addition on the side of my current garage. My current 10x29 garage is only valued at $1,000 bucks on my tax assessment !
 

Stuart in MN

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Minneapolis
Around here, the hearing is "public" and notices are sent to your neighbors. Getting a preemptive approval letter from neighbors on all side will go a long way to getting approval from the zoning board. Type up and print out the letter yourself. Personally take it and sketch of what you are planing to each of your neighbors. Spend a few minutes with each one and ask them to sign the letter.

Yup, that was part of it (and was something I did while many others that day did not.) I also had to post notices at the corners of my property, and I came prepared with plans, photos, a document explaining what I wanted to do and why it was necessary, approval from the neighborhood association, and whatever else I could think of.

I also put on some nice clothes and combed my hair, which is another thing most other people there that day didn't do. ;)
 

Chris705

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Nov 1, 2012
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The Finger Lakes of NY
The surveyor can delineate the wetlands. If you do/did have a survey in your mortgage package call him and discuss what you are being told by building inspector. Discuss cost of putting wetland outline on your survey so the you can locate your proposed build on it. If you have been planning for a while just think of this as more planning. Honestly I think starting projects in the spring is a bit less stressful as good weather is coming to an end.
 
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Stuart in MN

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Minneapolis
Make sure to get someone who actually knows how to delineate wetlands...I have a friend who's a soil scientist for an engineering firm, she does that stuff for a living and complains all the time about people who don't know how to do it properly. :)
 

redmondjp

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Redmond, WA
Make sure to get someone who actually knows how to delineate wetlands...I have a friend who's a soil scientist for an engineering firm, she does that stuff for a living and complains all the time about people who don't know how to do it properly. :)

Where I live, for the big developers, they allow wetland exchanges - you are allowed to fill it in one place, so long as it is made up for elsewhere in a nearby location (at one Microsoft campus they created a completely man-made wetland that I drive by on my home from work every day). I don't know if this works for the little guy or not, but you might ask about it.
 

Ray916MN

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Orono, MN
As I recollect $1K for the property survey required for my build. The price was high because all the lot demarcation pins from prior surveys could not be found. If you can find the surveyor who did the last survey you get the best shot at being able to avoid some extra cost. A quick discussion with the surveyor who did the existing survey on the property is a great place to start. If the surveyor is familiar with local zoning, they should be able to give you a good indication of exactly what variance(s) will be required.

Wetland exchanges in my area are allowed, but the exchange rate is 1:2 (for every sq. ft. of wetland you remove, you need to replace it with double the area).

Engineered plans are required for any structure above a certain size in my area. All the reputable builders are used to producing these and it is no big deal. If you're planning on doing the building yourself, unless you're handy with a decent building design program, you're probably going to need to have an architect draw up the plans. If you use an architect, you need to make absolutely sure you know what your final plan is going to be, because changes are going to cost you money. With a variance required it is possible that the planning board may request changes to anything you present. If your local planning board is flakey it is possible that several rounds of changes may be requested before you get approval on a final plan.

Generally using local surveyors, builders and architects for whatever you want to do helps make things go well. Outfits with good established relationships with the town and planning board know how to get things done and have already established trust. A call to your town to ask them who they use for their projects is an easy way to find out who has these relationships.

Given your location, the time of the year and the requirement for a variance, I'd say you're being optimistic to think you're going to get a building up this year.
 

Leaflessshadetree

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Don't ask.
Around here, the hearing is "public" and notices are sent to your neighbors. Getting a preemptive approval letter from neighbors on all side will go a long way to getting approval from the zoning board. Type up and print out the letter yourself. Personally take it and sketch of what you are planing to each of your neighbors. Spend a few minutes with each one and ask them to sign the letter.
The only letters my zoning board would look at had to be notarized, or delivered personally by them and if sent had to be certified mail.


I got my tax assessment reduced when I presented pictures of my house and 2 others in the neighborhood that were basically identical that had lower assessments. Of course I did not mention there were others in the neighborhood with higher assessments ! Preparation is key.
That often ends up raising your neighbors assessments.
 

maxpower_hd

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Massachusetts
I would suggest calling the inspector back and ask him exactly what kind of survey they will need. I didn't need a variance but I was within 2 feet of the allowable setback. It changed the type of survey they would accept. I had to get what they call a certified plot plan which means the surveyor marks the corners and certifies that they are accurate. This type costs more than a general survey with a drawing and is different than the one that comes from the bank when you buy the house. Mine ended up being around $1200. I also paid for the general survey first and found out it wasn't good enough which is why I suggested asking before hand.
 

Marcm157

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Jan 12, 2014
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525
Location
Newburgh, NY
I am fighting very similar issues here in the Libtard State of NY. I think I have effectively negated all the Code Compliance Officers "Objections" except they are trying to force me to use a Licensed Electrician when I want to do all the work myself subject to final inspection.

They initially said I would need a variance because the square footage "Potentially allowed me to store more vehicles than allowed" But I argued that you can't hold me accountable for something I haven't done but might do. I eventually won that argument but they suddenly decided that my plans that were drawn by my contractor needed to be re-done by an architect.

Stay the course and remain calm and focused...
 

elba

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Sep 8, 2014
Messages
89
WOW I didn't know how lucky I have it here in rural Alabama. I have a small farm and we are allowed to build any building , any size out structure without a building permit or inspection. So, seven years ago I built a large pole barn with 5 windows and two roll-up doors . Wired it my self. Also , I did everything by code. My taxes on the entire property taxes ( worth about $300,000 ) are $559 a YEAR.
 

LB-1911

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Sep 24, 2011
Messages
5,744
Location
Northwestern Il.
I've been pre-planning a garage for a while now. Well today I called the building inspector to try and see what I need to move forward. He told me because my current garage (10x29) is so close to the road, and the property line that I will need an zoning variance. I will need to have a surveyor out, and get engineered plans. He also hinted that I am close to a wetland and that much also be an issue???

I'm pretty bummed. I really wanted to get something up before the snow hits....now I'm thinking it might not even be worth it.

Anyone had to deal with this?:dunno:

You need to do a site plan, go to the Bldg Dept in person and speak with them.

Example of a site plan
https://www.co.pierce.wa.us/DocumentCenter/View/4301

best way to get a building permit?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196650
 
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rob in nh

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May 11, 2012
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205
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kingston nh
The officials in EK are pretty nice people from what i've heard, i'm sure they will give it to you. Unfortunately it will cost you for the survey, are you on South rd?
 

nehog

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Jaffrey, NH
Considering where you live (wonderful New Hamster) getting this done before winter will be a neat trick! At least here in Jaffrey, getting a variance, and possible wetlands would take months. As well it seems your town is doing it "by the book" with no flexibility at all.
 

maxpower_hd

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Apr 17, 2015
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Massachusetts
I am fighting very similar issues here in the Libtard State of NY. I think I have effectively negated all the Code Compliance Officers "Objections" except they are trying to force me to use a Licensed Electrician when I want to do all the work myself subject to final inspection.

They initially said I would need a variance because the square footage "Potentially allowed me to store more vehicles than allowed" But I argued that you can't hold me accountable for something I haven't done but might do. I eventually won that argument but they suddenly decided that my plans that were drawn by my contractor needed to be re-done by an architect.

Stay the course and remain calm and focused...

Where I live they also made me have an electrician pull the electrical permit. I know him though. He did the service change upgrading from a 60 amp fuse panel to a 200 amp service with a 100 amp panel in the original house and another 100 amp panel for the garage and room above. He let my brother and I wire the rest of the addition and came by to look at it before we called the inspector in.
 

theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
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SE MI
Wetland exchanges in my area are allowed ...

Several years ago a multi-year sewer over follow containment project was built along a major creek, destroying dozens of acres of wetlands. They areas that were exchanged are dry more than 6 months of the year. These "new" wetlands were simply park land that really could not be utilized by people so they just stop cutting the grass/weeds.
 
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