Seeking generator transfer switch option advice

[Wood'nMetal]

Hoping to get some input on generator transfer switch wiring on my house. I'll try to explain best I can and I can get photos if needed.

I have a manufactured home. The service entrance and meter is on the outside of the house. The service entrance feeds a subpanel on the outside of the house with a 200A breaker. That subpanel then feeds the 200A breaker panel located inside the home.

I'd like to put the transfer switch outside the house at that 200A sub panel and feed the whole house. Yes, I know that feeding the whole panel is not the norm....I'm capable of turning off the loads I don't want powered.

The reason I want to do this at that outside panel is because the inside load center is in the middle of the house inside a finished wall. I don't want to have to run wiring for the gen supply plug all the way to the outside of the house and don't want to hack the wall up to install transfer switch wiring.

So the problem is, the only "whole house" transfer switches are insanely expensive...like $500-800. What would be ideal is manual switch that would disconnect the feed from the service entrance and switch it to the gen input. Of course it would need to be weatherproof. Since I don't have to deal with 2/0 service cable, it seems like I should be able to find a simple, relatively inexpensive solution. Any ideas?

 

[Junkman]

I have a 200 amp rain tight generator switch that I am not using, and will sell for $100, but shipping would be prohibitive from Connecticut. I suggest that you keep checking Craigslist, and eventually you will find one. I installed a new ASCO automatic disconnect switch at home, and I love it. For me, it was well worth the cost.

 

[Wood'nMetal]

I have a 200 amp rain tight generator switch that I am not using, and will sell for $100, but shipping would be prohibitive from Connecticut. I suggest that you keep checking Craigslist, and eventually you will find one. I installed a new ASCO automatic disconnect switch at home, and I love it. For me, it was well worth the cost.

Can you give me more details on the transfer switch you would sell? I couldn't find it with a quick Googling. I have been watching CL, there has been nothing. Thanks

 

[scissorman]

You will find what you need at Home Depot.

 

[Wood'nMetal]

You will find what you need at Home Depot.

Nope.

 

[Norcal]

If you use a auto transfer switch your genny has to be sized to the entire load in order to comply with code, see NEC article 702.4(B)(2).


This thread should be moved to the electrical forum.

 

[MagKarl]

I have an interlock panel cover instead of a transfer switch. That let's you use any circuits in the panel, though not at the same time with a small generator. The interlock only allows either the main or the generator breaker to be on. Much cheaper than a transfer switch in my case.

 

[Rookie2]

What MagKarl said !

call these people and see the best route.

http://www.interlockkit.com/intro2.htm

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have an interlock panel cover instead of a transfer switch.

That would be my choice also.

The outside panel ("load center") might have to be replaced with one that has 2 breakers (one from the meter and one from the generator) as well as the interlock mechanism (a mechanical piece that allows only the breaker from the meter or the breaker form th generator to be turned on).

Safe, effective and exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Wood'nMetal]

Thanks, I'll check out the interlock panel for the outside panel. I'd looked at them for the inside CH panel but decided against it but it may be just right if they offer one for the outside panel.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Thanks, I'll check out the interlock panel for the outside panel. I'd looked at them for the inside CH panel but decided against it but it may be just right if they offer one for the outside panel.

An Interlock is not a "panel" or box like a transfer switch is. An Interlock is a few pieces of sheet metal that are formed to fit inside your Load Center (or outside panel as you are calling it) and it prevents you from back feeding the Utility line and possibly killing a linesman by not allowing both the Utility power and generator power to feed your Load Center at the same time.

It does this by having the sheet metal pieces move in a way that you have to turn your Load Centers main breaker off in order to turn on your generators breaker that you have to install in your Load Center.

It does this by sliding either left and right or up and down depending on the type and manufacturer of your Load Center.

Here is a picture of one off of the Interlock website. You can see that this one is made to slide up and down. You can't slide it up unless you turn the Load Center's main breaker off. This will then allow you to turn the generators breaker on. And you can't turn the Load Center's main breaker back on until you turn the generators breaker off which will allow the Interlock to slide back down.

It is a very simple device, works well, and they make them specifically for each type of Load Center.

Jim

 

[jmarkwolf]

I think I read somewhere that the interlock panels parts are approved by home insurance agencies, but it would behoove you to confirm.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I used a combination Meter socket manual transfer switch on an outside pole for my whole house.
I can't find a picture as my imageshack account will not let me log in.

Can send you details when I get home Friday if you want....

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thanks, I'll check out the interlock panel for the outside panel.

What is the model number on the outside panel ?

You need one that has space for 4 circuits or more specifically, 2 140V breakers.

This might not make sense, but the current input and output from that panel need to be swapped. What is now the input will become the output going to the panel in the house. The meter will go to one 240V breaker and the generator will run to the other 240V breaker. The "interlock" is a mechanical device that only allows one of these 2 - 240V breakers to be turned on at one time.

If this does ot make sense, you should hire an electrician.

 

[johnbennetch]

If you use a auto transfer switch your genny has to be sized to the entire load in order to comply with code, see NEC article 702.4(B)(2).


This thread should be moved to the electrical forum.

That code may be correct for a hardwired automatically operated generator. But if you are plugging in a portable power source it does not apply. You may plug in what ever you want.

 

[Wood'nMetal]

Here's the outside panel. I will have to pull the cover to see who the maker is. As you can see, there is a 200A main break which feeds the interior house panel. It would be ideal to put the interlock/transfer switch out here rather than try to isolate the circuits inside in the confined area.

I looked at the whole meter device that NWOhioGuy used as they are slick, unfortunately very pricey and my electrical coop wasn't very cooperative with the idea, especially since it involved plugging their pricey new meters into it.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I have searched a lot on the net for your transfer system but it seems what you are asking for...is just not going to be less than $600-1000.00. I also see why your POCO is concerned also. I recall the ice storms around here in 2003 that knocked out power for 6 days. A lineman got hurt from someone back feeding his gen in to his dryer receptacle and forgot to turn his main off. I remember the POCO trucks stopping and the linemen checking out homes a bit more in detail whenever they heard a gen running ....before they tried to get the broken lines repaired in the vicinity.

You may want to reconsider how much power your home HAS to have during a outage. I chose to get power from my gen for my gas furnace and sump pump. Our decorative oil lantern lights provided the lights.We cooked on a propane burner. I had my electric water heater set up to plug in the gen also. I wish I could afford a whole house gen with auto transfer, but cannot.So I do what I have to. Good luck with your project.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I created THIS THREAD a little over a year ago to show what I had done for myself and my HOA for generator interlocks. Look thru it for some ideas.

Pics of the OP's service entrance and outside subpanel (door open) would help immensely.

The interlocks sold by interlockkit.com should be used as a last resort, THEY ARE INSANELY EXPENSIVE. most panel manufacturers make interlocks for their panels, and they can be found cheaper, either retail, or on ebay or Amazon.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That code may be correct for a hardwired automatically operated generator. But if you are plugging in a portable power source it does not apply. You may plug in what ever you want.

An auto transfer switch wouldnt be used with a plug in generator so your point is moot...

 

[Wood'nMetal]

An auto transfer switch wouldnt be used with a plug in generator so your point is moot...

Apparently you've never seen an RV? The auto transfer switches are fed from the generator and....wait for it......the shore cord, which may be hardwired or plug-in (Marinco or Hubbell style).

Your answer is invalid

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Apparently you've never seen an RV? The auto transfer switches are fed from the generator and....wait for it......the shore cord, which may be hardwired or plug-in (Marinco or Hubbell style).

Your answer is invalid

Agreed, all it loses with a manual generator is auto start/stop. The ATS will still function to transfer the load back to utility when NP is restored or back to the generator if NP fails again.

If you're using a manual start generator, I'd hunt around and find a manual three position Generator/OFF/Utility service disconnect rated at 200A and do like you said and load manage.

The prefered method is to use a properly rated ATS for just the circuits that the generator can handle.

FWIW, When we lost power from a tornado, I backfed with the utility breaker open. I also put a note out at the road on the pole that fed the house and shop, told POCO what I did, told POCO where they could verify what I did and left POCO my phone number. I got up the next morning and had power back. Later that week when they were back by and they stopped and thanked me for the notes and said it was first time they had anyone do it. They also told me they already knew I knew it was illegal, but would not say anything to anyone about it.

 

[Wood'nMetal]

Yeah, I don't need auto transfer capability. Again, what I'm trying to do is to mount the transfer switch and plug on the exterior of the house at the 200A main breaker BECAUSE it's not convenient to mount it inside at the load center.

I don't plan on backfeeding the utility...duh.
I don't plan on running every single load, furnace, water heater, etc. off my generator.

This weekend I will find out the make/model on my exterior load panel and contact Interlock for suggestions. I may look again at the meter-mounted transfer switches...they were just so damn much money and not common in this area.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Yeah, I don't need auto transfer capability. Again, what I'm trying to do is to mount the transfer switch and plug on the exterior of the house at the 200A main breaker BECAUSE it's not convenient to mount it inside at the load center.

I don't plan on backfeeding the utility...duh.
I don't plan on running every single load, furnace, water heater, etc. off my generator.

This weekend I will find out the make/model on my exterior load panel and contact Interlock for suggestions. I may look again at the meter-mounted transfer switches...they were just so damn much money and not common in this area.

As stupid as this might sound, do you have any old chicken farmers/chicken houses around where you are? I see a lot of used manual ATS as farm sells from time to time. A lot of old chicken houses that are torn down or updated have them that get thrown out. Even a used 3 phase panel is Ok to use, keep that in mind, you just use two legs and not three, probably easier to find too.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Apparently you've never seen an RV? The auto transfer switches are fed from the generator and....wait for it......the shore cord, which may be hardwired or plug-in (Marinco or Hubbell style).

Your answer is invalid

Were not talking about RVs, which arent governed by the NEC...which is for buildings...

 

[gahrajmahal]

here is what I ended up doing

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156663

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't plan on running every single load, furnace, water heater, etc. off my generator.

Which is perfect for an interlock system.

 

[Wood'nMetal]

Well, I went to both Home Depots in town and contrary to popular opinion, they didn't have everything I needed!

They only had interlock kits for Square D boxes so it's off to Amazon I go. At least with this set up, I'll only have to run a wire to outside of the house to a 30A plug.

Thanks for the input guys.