Problematic Proto Ratchets, Part Deuce

[scottguehne]

Alright guys, a few months ago I started a post about some Proto round heads found off the 'Bay. I believe it was pretty obvious that my current craftsman sockets didn't fit the ratchet worth a hoot. So, I first called Proto, claiming to have recieved a NOS factory defective ratchet. Lady on the phone says we won't warranty it. Says I need to warranty it with the retailer. So, I immediately shoot an email the Ebay seller. The next day I call Proto again, I get a different lady on the phone, and she tells me to send the ratchet to their Conyers, Georgia plant for warranty, a rebuild kit. She says I just pay shipping to the plant, and that's all. Well, after getting off the phone with her, I check my ebay email, and I have an email waiting for me from the ebay seller. He is very understanding, and offers to send another ratchet out immediately. I say ok, I'll wait to send my ratchet to proto, and I'll see how this other ratchet is. Well, long story short, I get the new ratchet, and it is exactly the same as the other one. So, either all the ratchets this particular ebayer is selling are factory defects, or this is just the way this particular model ratchet is. These were discontinued in 1984 after all, socket and ratchet design could have changed in the past 25 years.
What do I do now? I have an idea as to how I could fix the ratchets myself, which is one option, but I can't get the main ratchet/pawl mechanism apart. Or I could spend 5 bucks to have the ratchet sent to proto and a new rebuild kit put in, but then the ratchet just might come back with the same issue as before. Or I can just use the ratchets as they are. Part of my plan is to shorten one of them to about 4" for a stubby 3/8.
Opinions? I'm open to suggestions.

Sloppy Socket fit:

My plan to fix the ratchets involves moving the retaining ball back about 1/8".

I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to dismantle the mechanism. Fort Knox has nothing on this baby, nobody can get inside this thing.

 

[cruiser808]

Hi Scott - I wouldn't bother sending that ratchet back to Proto for a new kit. I have seven of these and from my experience, all the Proto round heads have the same sloppy movement between the socket and the drive mechanism. I even have several kits and they all have the same issues. On the bright side, I've used snap-on sockets on these ratchets and they seem to perform much better than Proto sockets or Craftsman sockets on them. I'd just **** it up and use them as they are.

 

[Art From De Leon]

I would try another brand of socket and see if the problem goes away.

 

[Bolster]

If the seller won't refund, then I'd send to Proto. Appears the important part of dealing with Proto is to send, don't call for permission. Their "company line" is to send you to the local retailer (those are the official talking points), but in reality it appears (from all I've heard so far) that if a tool comes to them, they won't turn it away, they'll deal with it and send back to you.

When I had an issue with a peeling socket I bought here on GJ, I did not ask for permission, I just sent it. New one back in the mail a couple days later. I never talked to a soul at Proto.

My guess is that it's cheaper for them to replace or fix, than piss off the owner by returning a broken item and saying "take it up with the local retailer." If they did the latter they KNOW they would lose massive market share.

 

[cruiser808]

I would try another brand of socket and see if the problem goes away.

Great suggestion Art, and using Snap-on sockets will indeed reduce the problem, but the sloppiness will not go away completely. This a a pet peeve of mine, in that the ratchet combination (ratchet, extension, socket) should not have any play or sloppiness. With the Proto round heads, it's a design flaw with the detent ball. On these ratchets, it's too small and recessed to get a good bite into the socket. Sure, it will hold the socket, but it's flopping all over the place. A simple comparison of the detent balls of these Proto ratchets with those of other ratchet brands like Snap-on, older MAC and Armstrong will bear this out. This is one case where Proto didn't get it right.

 

[lauver]

Scott,

PM Tool Pants...there ain't a ratchet mechanism that dude can't figure out. I'm confident he can help you get it apart and back together again. Good luck!

 

[cruiser808]

Fyi - I checked the detent balls on my pre-Stanley Proto and Challenger round head ratchets and they work just fine with the much larger detent balls. No play at all. The ratchets I'm referring to are not the quick release variety even though they are the same part number.

Hmmm, I just realized that my old 1/2" drive Proto round head with 60 teeth has a Challenger gear mechanism in it with a 1660 part number. Works great, no play. Go figure??

 

[Tool Pants]

I have never taken a Proto round head apart. I have with Utica/Easco/Craftsman round head styles.

On that style there is a shaft inside the ratchet core that has a hole drilled in it. There is a spring in the hole and on each end there is a ball or pin. When you rotate the shaft to change direction the spring loaded balls/spring push against the pawls and the pawls flip to change direction. Yours looks like a pin. On the Easco style that shaft is also the quick release.

So put the pawls in the neutral position so they are flush with the core. Like if the core was in the ratchet it would spin in either direction without clicking. Then see if you can pull the shaft out -watch out for flying parts - the sping and 2 balls/pins. If that does not work then you might need to depress both balls/pins at the same time with a small screwdriver while you pull.

I don't see anything wrong with your ratchet core so I do not know what taking it apart is going to do. But the socket does look weird on it.

 

[cruiser808]

I have never taken a Proto round head apart. I have with Utica/Easco/Craftsman round head styles.

On that style there is a shaft inside the ratchet core that has a hole drilled in it. There is a spring in the hole and on each end there is a ball or pin. When you rotate the shaft to change direction the spring loaded balls/spring push against the pawls and the pawls flip to change direction. Yours looks like a pin. On the Easco style that shaft is also the quick release.

So put the pawls in the neutral position so they are flush with the core. Like if the core was in the ratchet it would spin in either direction without clicking. Then see if you can pull the shaft out -watch out for flying parts - the sping and 2 balls/pins. If that does not work then you might need to depress both balls/pins at the same time with a small screwdriver while you pull.

I don't see anything wrong with your ratchet core so I do not know what taking it apart is going to do. But the socket does look weird on it.

Thanks Tool Pants for this conformaton. If you will, please look at the size and location of the detent ball of the drive. I contend, the Stanley people cheaped out on Proto from 1984 and developed a quick release design that was flawed with a bad detent ball size and location. I have at least seven of these Proto ratchets as well as repair kits. They are al the same POS. They are NOT my go to tools. This is significant to me as I prefer round head ratchets and I spent alot on Proto tools in the 1990's.

 

[scottguehne]

Hey thanks for the info tool pants. I actually have tried what you have described, but when I do, the pawls will flip one way or the other, they won't remain in the neutral position. I'll have to get an assistant to hold the pawls in place. Thanks again.

 

[silversix]

I have the same problem! In fact I was about to buy a repair kit and decided to look on here first, good thing I did. I bought a set of three ratchets off e-bay, a 1/2" long handle, the 3/8" like in your picture, and a 1/4". The 1/2" and 1/4" work great, but this one really got on my nerves so I took it apart, but then I got stuck at the same place you did. There has to be a way to take it apart, and when I do I'm sure I can come up with some way to fix it.