Advice requested regarding heater/boiler unit for home radiator system

[NC-Shaun]

I am trying to get my moms home up to functional levels. It was her parents home and they did things the old patch it up way. So I have taken some time off work and drove 600 miles to do some minor updates.

So far I have installed a new incoming copper water line, removed a faulty water pressure regulator, installed all new plumbing under the kitchen sink, along with a new faucet, retrofitted modern toilet internals to the old 4 bolt flange toilet, burnt down the 40 year old brush pile, taken out all 4-5 truckloads of scrap metal to the salvage yard.

So its starting to get cold now and she called the go to furnace guy who does the yearly service checkup on the radiator/boiler system. I woke up and heard him telling her the boiler (whatever the unit is called that has the burners in it is called) needed replaced because it has high carbon monoxide levels coming from around the unit. I went downstairs and had him show me with the meter and it registered approx an 8 on his sniffer.

Anyways, he goes on to tell me that this is an old unit and needs replaced and he has never seen this brand unit before. Well, my grandfather replaced that unit just about 8-9 years ago before I moved away and it was new then. The furnace guy told me we could use it if it got too cold in the house, but leave a window open in the basement where the unit is.

I have a hard time believing it needs replaced already. I asked him what would cause this high carbon monoxide reading and he said it may have a hole rotted out in the burner area that is preventing the exhaust fan from pulling the emissions out the chimney vent. He then quoted me a price of $3800-5000 for a new unit, charged me $65 bux and left.

So after he left I started to ask my mother questions about the history of this unit, and what this guy normally does when he comes up to do a yearly service/inspection. She tells me he usually cleans the burners, makes sure the exhaust fan is working, and the circulation pump is oiled and running smoothly. Well, for some reason this time he didnt clean the burners, which seems odd to me as he said there could be a hole rotted in the burner plate causing the high carbon monoxide readings he mentioned. One would think he would have inspected this area, especially since there could be an issue in this area causing high carbon monoxide readings.

The house is a 1938 build. The electrical will not handle a new forced air setup, and its not in the budget to do all new electrical, forced air. So I am thinking of buying a carbon monoxide sniffer and keeping a check on the basement area? I need to know what acceptable carbon monoxide levels are if there is such a thing? Maybe I can take pictures of the unit, and someone here could walk me thru checking the burner plate for damage. I am handy with metal work so patching a hole in a burner tray guard is something that I would think I can do. Or maybe the guy was just trying to sell my mother on a new unit to make profit and I dont have any issues?

Sorry for the long post, but I am a one man band and every task at this house turns out to be much larger than it would be on a modern home. I am feeling overwhelmed. Thank You for any help you can provide.

 

[mikester]

If it was me, I would have someone come over with a draft meter and check the chimney first to see if theres any blockage. I find it odd that theres an issue with a fairly new boiler. I would do the chimney first, then the stack, last the firebox in the actual boiler.

I had a Peerless boiler that was about 15 years old. I had it installed by a local company. The same company serviced it every year. Three years into owning it I had a puff back. The chamber in the boiler was packed solid with soot. I had another guy come over that day and clean it from top to bottom. It took him over 1 1/2 hours. I was down there talking to him as he was doing it.
After that puff back the boiler was never the same. I had back pressure at the little inspection cover on the front of the boiler. It was like a flamethrower when you opened it. The guy that did the servicing couldnt figure out why. He even called Peerless while he was at my house and spoke to someone in tech support to try to get an answer.
In the end I got a draft meter from a guy that I know. The draft was good at the chimney and stack but I had nothing in the boiler.
In 2008 I replaced the Peerless with a Biasi boiler. Havent had an issue since.

I would have everything looked at if I were you. A friend of mine bought a house a few years ago. He bought it in the middle of the summer. It had a forced air system. The first fall night he used the heat he woke up to see his cat staggering around as it was walking into his room. Thankfully he realized something was wrong. He opened all the windows in the house and got his sons up and out of the house.
Turned out the chimney was blocked. The heating system was service yearly. Guess they never checked that chimney. Sad thing was the old woman that owned the house originally was found dead in it. They probably figured it was from old age. Im thinking it was carbon monoxide.

 

[nadogail]

For a heating technician to criticize a 9 year old unit " because he never heard of that brand" he just demonstrated his ignorance.

I agree with the recommendation for a flue inspection.

 

[NC-Shaun]

If it was me, I would have someone come over with a draft meter and check the chimney first to see if theres any blockage. I find it odd that theres an issue with a fairly new boiler. I would do the chimney first, then the stack, last the firebox in the actual boiler.

I had a Peerless boiler that was about 15 years old. I had it installed by a local company. The same company serviced it every year. Three years into owning it I had a puff back. The chamber in the boiler was packed solid with soot. I had another guy come over that day and clean it from top to bottom. It took him over 1 1/2 hours. I was down there talking to him as he was doing it.
After that puff back the boiler was never the same. I had back pressure at the little inspection cover on the front of the boiler. It was like a flamethrower when you opened it. The guy that did the servicing couldnt figure out why. He even called Peerless while he was at my house and spoke to someone in tech support to try to get an answer.
In the end I got a draft meter from a guy that I know. The draft was good at the chimney and stack but I had nothing in the boiler.
In 2008 I replaced the Peerless with a Biasi boiler. Havent had an issue since.

I would have everything looked at if I were you. A friend of mine bought a house a few years ago. He bought it in the middle of the summer. It had a forced air system. The first fall night he used the heat he woke up to see his cat staggering around as it was walking into his room. Thankfully he realized something was wrong. He opened all the windows in the house and got his sons up and out of the house.
Turned out the chimney was blocked. The heating system was service yearly. Guess they never checked that chimney. Sad thing was the old woman that owned the house originally was found dead in it. They probably figured it was from old age. Im thinking it was carbon monoxide.

Thank You for the in depth response. This is the exact reason I chose to come back to my mom's place and stick around for a while. I gotta make sure this place is safe for her.

For a heating technician to criticize a 9 year old unit " because he never heard of that brand" he just demonstrated his ignorance.

I agree with the recommendation for a flue inspection.

I will do as you guys have recommended and follow up once I get more info.

Thank You for the knowledge, it is much appreciated.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Its too bad nc is so far from here! Anyway Id have a real boiler guy come service/check it out,and definately check the chimney for blockage.
Dont try and patch a hole/crack on a boiler with sheet metal.
As far as a new furnace requiring too much power to run,a new requires probably about the same amount of power to run as that draft inducer motor on your existing boiler.

 

[mikester]

I reread the original post and Im confused about a number of things. From what you are describing your moms house had a boiler and radiators correct ? The boilers that Ive seen have a single gun/burner. Typical service on one includes a new filter, nozzle and an adjustment to make sure its running right. The guy that does mine pokes a soot tester in the stack to get an idea of how its running. Sometimes he takes a meter and sticks a probe in the hole to double check its running clean.

As far as an exhaust fan, Im not sure what that is. Maybe other guys that know about this can post the info on what this does. I have a stack that goes directly into the chimney. My house was built in 1900. but the chimney was redone in the mid-late 70s. Maybe the chimney on your moms house is in poor condition and needs the fan to help push the exhaust ?
The other thing that has me puzzled is the comment about the circulation pump being oiled. Isnt the pump plumbed into the system ? Mine are sealed units and I have 3. Ive never seen one that needs lubrication.
Maybe theres stuff made that Ive never seen before, maybe its something used in your area and not used here in NY.
Can you post a photo or at least post the brand of the boiler ?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I reread the original post and Im confused about a number of things. From what you are describing your moms house had a boiler and radiators correct ? The boilers that Ive seen have a single gun/burner. Typical service on one includes a new filter, nozzle and an adjustment to make sure its running right. The guy that does mine pokes a soot tester in the stack to get an idea of how its running. Sometimes he takes a meter and sticks a probe in the hole to double check its running clean.

As far as an exhaust fan, Im not sure what that is. Maybe other guys that know about this can post the info on what this does. I have a stack that goes directly into the chimney. My house was built in 1900. but the chimney was redone in the mid-late 70s. Maybe the chimney on your moms house is in poor condition and needs the fan to help push the exhaust ?
The other thing that has me puzzled is the comment about the circulation pump being oiled. Isnt the pump plumbed into the system ? Mine are sealed units and I have 3. Ive never seen one that needs lubrication.
Maybe theres stuff made that Ive never seen before, maybe its something used in your area and not used here in NY.
Can you post a photo or at least post the brand of the boiler ?

Most recirc pumps have oil spouts on the motor and the pump housing.

 

[brewchief]

How about some pics of the boiler and overall install, get one of the data plate with the name and model # as well.

 

[NC-Shaun]

I reread the original post and Im confused about a number of things. From what you are describing your moms house had a boiler and radiators correct ? The boilers that Ive seen have a single gun/burner. Typical service on one includes a new filter, nozzle and an adjustment to make sure its running right. The guy that does mine pokes a soot tester in the stack to get an idea of how its running. Sometimes he takes a meter and sticks a probe in the hole to double check its running clean.

As far as an exhaust fan, Im not sure what that is. Maybe other guys that know about this can post the info on what this does. I have a stack that goes directly into the chimney. My house was built in 1900. but the chimney was redone in the mid-late 70s. Maybe the chimney on your moms house is in poor condition and needs the fan to help push the exhaust ?
The other thing that has me puzzled is the comment about the circulation pump being oiled. Isnt the pump plumbed into the system ? Mine are sealed units and I have 3. Ive never seen one that needs lubrication.
Maybe theres stuff made that Ive never seen before, maybe its something used in your area and not used here in NY.
Can you post a photo or at least post the brand of the boiler ?

Yes, I will take some pics for you.

Most recirc pumps have oil spouts on the motor and the pump housing.

/\ I think this is correct /\ because it has an external circulation motor that requires yearly oiling with a 3-N-1 type oil.

How about some pics of the boiler and overall install, get one of the data plate with the name and model # as well.

I will get some now, and post em up ASAP. Thank You all, I took a few hours and walked away from the house to get my mind right. I came back and looked around and the house doesnt have ANY fire or Carbon Monoxide alarms! I am gonna go buy 3 of these and install them tomorrow morning.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_429037-347-SCO501CN___?productId=4075206&pl=1&Ntt=carbon+monoxide+detector

 

[NC-Shaun]

 

[NC-Shaun]

The Unit is a

Pennco Model# FSB-5

 

[NC-Shaun]

The High Carbon Monoxide Reading (8 on his meter) was taken right here.

 

[NC-Shaun]

If any of you need better or specific pics to assist me feel free to tell me so. I will do my part to provide you all any info you need to assist me. Thank You all so much

 

[brewchief]

That boiler needs a proper teardown and cleaning, heat exchanger sections need to be cleaned, burners need to be cleaned. A combustion test after that will determine if there are any other problems but I doubt there will be.


The gate valve between the boiler and the relief valve needs to go away immediately and a pipe from the outlet of the relief to within 3" of the floor needs to be installed, as a tech I would not touch that boiler until that valve was removed.

 

[deckmonkey]

First thing I see is the warning that venting to chimney says must(underlined) be 4" but it increases to what looks like 6". Also some guys cheat and don't line the chimney. The fan may not have enough push to draw the exhaust. Also have you sealed anything up? There may not be enough make up air.

My old oil boiler was similar but had a barometric damper to help. Get another company to also test the combustion in the exhaust. The guy might have been trying to upsell you but he is also criminally liable if something happens. For $65 bucks would you patch it and maybe go to jail if someone died? Not all techs are the same either. I have more experience than some guys who should know better but am certainly not a genius especially with venting.

If you go with a new one you could probably vent a high efficiency out the wall.

 

[NC-Shaun]

That boiler needs a proper teardown and cleaning, heat exchanger sections need to be cleaned, burners need to be cleaned. A combustion test after that will determine if there are any other problems but I doubt there will be.


The gate valve between the boiler and the relief valve needs to go away immediately and a pipe from the outlet of the relief to within 3" of the floor needs to be installed, as a tech I would not touch that boiler until that valve was removed.

Is the tear down and cleaning something I can do? meaning can me, a motorcycle mechanic do this with a little bit of online walk through?

Can you explain what is a gate valve and confirm what the relief valve is? I think you are referring to the relief valve as the piece that I pointed to where the high Carbon Monoxide reading was taken?

Also, why is removing the gate valve ( please point this out for me) so important? Was this an improperly installed unit? I will take in all information you provide, and am willing to work on this myself if its something I can do.

First thing I see is the warning that venting to chimney says must(underlined) be 4" but it increases to what looks like 6". Also some guys cheat and don't line the chimney. The fan may not have enough push to draw the exhaust. Also have you sealed anything up? There may not be enough make up air.

My old oil boiler was similar but had a barometric damper to help. Get another company to also test the combustion in the exhaust. The guy might have been trying to upsell you but he is also criminally liable if something happens. For $65 bucks would you patch it and maybe go to jail if someone died? Not all techs are the same either. I have more experience than some guys who should know better but am certainly not a genius especially with venting.

If you go with a new one you could probably vent a high efficiency out the wall.

I believe the chimney is lined all the way out the roof, I will look tomorrow and see if I can determine that. I may have come across incorrectly about what I expected for $65 bux, I just thought it was strange that he normally cleans the burners on the yearly checkup and did not this time. No I do not expect him to patch it up, merely tell me for sure what the issue was rather than just saying it could be this, and pricing me a new unit.

 

[mikester]

Well, Im out of answers already. lol ! I didnt know it was a gas fired boiler. I thought it was oil fired ! It took me a few minutes of looking at the pictures before I noticed theres no burner head sticking out of it ! Most people that I know in my area have oil heat. City gas isnt even on my street.
Im sure theres a few guys on GJ that will be able to help though.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

That boiler needs a proper teardown and cleaning, heat exchanger sections need to be cleaned, burners need to be cleaned. A combustion test after that will determine if there are any other problems but I doubt there will be.


The gate valve between the boiler and the relief valve needs to go away immediately and a pipe from the outlet of the relief to within 3" of the floor needs to be installed, as a tech I would not touch that boiler until that valve was removed.

Can you post a better picture of that relief valve?

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Can you post a better picture of that relief valve?

It is the line he has his finger pointed to where the CO leak is being reported. A no-no to put a valve in a pressure relief line as it would disable the pressure relief valve ability to pop off if the gate valve gets left closed. The Bell and Gossett circulating pump will need some 3 in one oil as a PM measure. The system looks good really, I agree but I have seen ten year boilers get cracks in their combustion chambers. The OP may want to get a second opinion from another tech on the CO reading and tune up service. All CO meters I have seen read in PPM, what is a 8 in a scale of 0-10, 0 - 20 with the highest number being the most dangerous level of CO . ? JMO

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

It is the line he has his finger pointed to where the CO leak is being reported. A no-no to put a valve in a pressure relief line as it would disable the pressure relief valve ability to pop off if the gate valve gets left closed. The Bell and Gossett circulating pump will need some 3 in one oil as a PM measure. The system looks good really, I agree. Get a second opinion from another tech. JMO

Yep,I just dont remember ever seeing a relief valve quite like that before so I wanted to see a close up on it.
I got called out to a house around plattesmouth ne years ago after somebody decided to plug a leaking pop off valve in a water heater with a pipe plug.
The heater blew through a wall and shoved a piano up and over a bed into the wall ,fortunately nobody was home at the time.
Back when I used to teach plumbing I set up a display out on a friends farm with a water heater full of water on top of a coleman stove with the pop off and the hot/cold inlets plugged.
Me and the guys in the class set up a telescope around a block away and watched it ,after about 30 mins of cooking it launched 50-60 in the air and hung a left turn into the tree line.
Definately wouldnt want to be in the room with one going off.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Damn, Z... That sure would have messed up playing a "Moonlight Sonata " on that piano...

If the purge fan is up to par and there are no restrictions in the flue like bird nest's , they do make a "on the top" of chimney's draft inducer fans. Need electric on the roof for it, not cheap, but a possibility rather than a new $5k furnace. Hopefully it is just a purge fan being weak or inoperative and the flue and combustion chamber are O.K. JMO

 

[NC-Shaun]

It is the line he has his finger pointed to where the CO leak is being reported. A no-no to put a valve in a pressure relief line as it would disable the pressure relief valve ability to pop off if the gate valve gets left closed. The Bell and Gossett circulating pump will need some 3 in one oil as a PM measure. The system looks good really, I agree but I have seen ten year boilers get cracks in their combustion chambers. The OP may want to get a second opinion from another tech on the CO reading and tune up service. All CO meters I have seen read in PPM, what is a 8 in a scale of 0-10, 0 - 20 with the highest number being the most dangerous level of CO . ? JMO

I have been watching you tube videos all evening, soaking in info.

at the 5:30-6 min mark this guy says 15 PPM is a good burn level, and mine said 8 if the fella testing my furnace had his meter set on PPM. However mine was reading Carbon Monoxide outside of the burner area by the pop off valve exit location.

I have oiled the B&G circulating pump every 6 mths or so with 3N1 oil. If the combustion chamber was cracked I would lose water and see traces of leaks upon visual inspection of this area correct?

I feel confident now that I can correct the pop off valve/gate valve issue.

I have also cleaned pilot light orifice tubes (using torch tip cleaners) on my gas furnaces I have owned in the past. I also feel like I could clean the burners and pilot light on this boiler as well.

I am debating on trying to do this on my own vs having a second opinion and checkup done. The first guys lack of initiative to find the problem, coupled with the fact that this boiler has worked flawlessly until now has me questioning his judgement. He didnt check gas line pressure, make any adjustments to the carb (if thats what you call the unit that controls gas on this) or take any steps to try and get the Carbon Monoxide levels down. Just fired up the unit, made sure the circulating pump was working, confirmed the exhaust fan was spinning and that was it. No cleaning of burners, carb adjustment, line pressure checks, nothing....Seems like he didnt do any of the steps to get it burning clean?

Regardless, thanks to you all providing input I am feeling more confident that the unit just needs some detailed cleaning, a correction on the popoff setup, and confirmation that the chimney is clear to work properly.

Oh yea, and the house will be getting new Carbon Monoxide/Fire Alarms installed as well!

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I am not a certified furnace tech so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I have just been responsible for being sure the mechanical work for HVAC in commercial buildings is done properly while using licensed contractors.

As you well know, anytime a natural gas appliance is used all safeties have to be in good working order. Carbon monoxide and explosions kill. You have pointed out rightfully, the relief valve is wrong. It should be threaded in without a valve and in close to the unit so the temp sensing rod on it can sense the temp and the pressure sensor inside the PRV will be where it should be. If it were my Mom's furnace and she was still living, I would get a second opinion and get it serviced correctly. Good luck. JMO

 

[NC-Shaun]

Today I checked out the chimney, confirmed it was in fact lined all the way up to the top and capped with a proper style screened cap. It was, so thats ok.

I spent the afternoon at Lowes and bought 4 of these

http://www.firstalert.com/index.php...id=288:battery-operated-carbon-monoxide-alarm

and 2 of these

http://www.firstalert.com/index.php?option=com_flexicontent&view=item&id=1082:pr710

I installed the Carbon Monoxide detectors below nose height on areas where my mother spends time. I also installed one slightly closer to any of the gas burning appliances in the home. I would rather have a false alarm, then a delayed alarm.

I fired up the Warm Morning Stove, and left an unmounted carbon monoxide detector close about 6 feet away and 2 feet off the ground. It hasnt tripped the alarm.

I am in the process of finding a knowledgeable tech that is familiar with boilers. This tech needs to do a thorough cleaning of the burners, heat exchanger, check draw on chimney, and then do a combustion test. Thank You to everyone who has replied so I know what to look for when the tech shows up.

 

[gdh33]

I would get another tech to pin point your CO issue. Could be not enough draft/poor combustion, crack or failed seal.

For anyone reading this, I can not stress enough how important it is that your pressure relief valve is in good condition and connected directly (no valves, or reducers) to the water side of the boiler. Please watch the following link (youtube - Mythbuster exploding hot water tank) to see why.

Edit to say: I operate large industrial boilers for a living.

 

[metaldad]

i have worked on resi boilers, long ago. (i'm a service foreman pipe fitter)
that unit you have, could last 40 years. definitely get another opinion from an experienced tech. get a referral, from a supply house. you want an old guy to look at it, not a kid whom only sells.
im sure IF there is a problem, it's minor.
and, as mentioned, that valve on top of the boiler, before the relief valve, is verboten. a really big no no.
there are things i could suggest, but, there's liability issues.

 

[NC-Shaun]

I would get another tech to pin point your CO issue. Could be not enough draft/poor combustion, crack or failed seal.

For anyone reading this, I can not stress enough how important it is that your pressure relief valve is in good condition and connected directly (no valves, or reducers) to the water side of the boiler. Please watch the following link (youtube - Mythbuster exploding hot water tank) to see why.

Edit to say: I operate large industrial boilers for a living.

The valve pop off valve issue will be corrected, I was looking at the unit today and it has another pop off valve that looks to be setup correctly. I will take pics of it so you experienced fellas can provide some more insight.

i have worked on resi boilers, long ago. (i'm a service foreman pipe fitter)
that unit you have, could last 40 years. definitely get another opinion from an experienced tech. get a referral, from a supply house. you want an old guy to look at it, not a kid whom only sells.
im sure IF there is a problem, it's minor.
and, as mentioned, that valve on top of the boiler, before the relief valve, is verboten. a really big no no.
there are things i could suggest, but, there's liability issues.

I will be using a certified tech to do the tune up, and appreciate your input. Especially since you think this unit has plenty of life left in it. I think it does as well. The pop off valve issue will be corrected as well. I also found another pop off valve that did have the pipe ran to a few inches off the floor. I will take a pic of it and post it here.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Damn, Z... That sure would have messed up playing a "Moonlight Sonata " on that piano...

If the purge fan is up to par and there are no restrictions in the flue like bird nest's , they do make a "on the top" of chimney's draft inducer fans. Need electric on the roof for it, not cheap, but a possibility rather than a new $5k furnace. Hopefully it is just a purge fan being weak or inoperative and the flue and combustion chamber are O.K. JMO

People dont realize the power of pressure,whether its some sort of air or water.
Ive seen it 1st hand on more than 1 occasion,Its bad stuff.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I have been watching you tube videos all evening, soaking in info.

at the 5:30-6 min mark this guy says 15 PPM is a good burn level, and mine said 8 if the fella testing my furnace had his meter set on PPM. However mine was reading Carbon Monoxide outside of the burner area by the pop off valve exit location.

I have oiled the B&G circulating pump every 6 mths or so with 3N1 oil. If the combustion chamber was cracked I would lose water and see traces of leaks upon visual inspection of this area correct?

I feel confident now that I can correct the pop off valve/gate valve issue.

I have also cleaned pilot light orifice tubes (using torch tip cleaners) on my gas furnaces I have owned in the past. I also feel like I could clean the burners and pilot light on this boiler as well.

I am debating on trying to do this on my own vs having a second opinion and checkup done. The first guys lack of initiative to find the problem, coupled with the fact that this boiler has worked flawlessly until now has me questioning his judgement. He didnt check gas line pressure, make any adjustments to the carb (if thats what you call the unit that controls gas on this) or take any steps to try and get the Carbon Monoxide levels down. Just fired up the unit, made sure the circulating pump was working, confirmed the exhaust fan was spinning and that was it. No cleaning of burners, carb adjustment, line pressure checks, nothing....Seems like he didnt do any of the steps to get it burning clean?

Regardless, thanks to you all providing input I am feeling more confident that the unit just needs some detailed cleaning, a correction on the popoff setup, and confirmation that the chimney is clear to work properly.

Oh yea, and the house will be getting new Carbon Monoxide/Fire Alarms installed as well!

When you remove that valve youre going to lose a lot of water out of the system.
Id take the time to go ahead and flush the system out while youre in there ,While youre in there Id go ahead and dump a gallon of rust inhibitor in there before you refill it.
Youll also have to bleed the air out of the system/radiators,The system will show lots more pressure till you get the air out of it.So be ready to keep topping off the water in the boiler as you go.

 

[NC-Shaun]

When you remove that valve youre going to lose a lot of water out of the system.
Id take the time to go ahead and flush the system out while youre in there ,While youre in there Id go ahead and dump a gallon of rust inhibitor in there before you refill it.
Youll also have to bleed the air out of the system/radiators,The system will show lots more pressure till you get the air out of it.So be ready to keep topping off the water in the boiler as you go.

Noted, Thank You for the tips

 

[NC-Shaun]

OK, so my Pyle Carbon Monoxide detector arrived to day so I took the opportunity to work on the boiler.

I first removed the burners, and cleaned them out. There were a total of five burners, the middle burner had the electronic igniter mounted to it. That one was the dirtiest of all 5 and the screw that held the igniter bracket was tuff to break free. Which tells me the fella that was servicing the unit was skipping this one because it took effort to remove.

All 5 burners looked to be in great condition metal wise. Once I cleaned them up I set them to the side.

I then gave the exchanger a good looking at. I saw no signs of damage or water leaks at this time. I also took a shop vac and cleaned out the burner tray and inspected the burner manifold for any debris or buildup. It looked clean as well.

So I carefully reassembled everything, and decided to fire it up and watch for any funny signs in the burners that would indicate an exchanger problem.

The circulation pump was binding, so I immediately flipped the power switch off. Took a few minutes to free up the pump and it was ready to fire up again. Oiled the 3 oil points on the motor/circulation pump.

Powered up the unit, and everything sounded good, nice looking flames, no signs of anything gettin into the fire.

I took my Pyle Carbon Monoxide meter

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005FU5J5Q/?tag=atomicindus08-20

and began the sniff test. It burnt really clean, and at the spot the tech said was showing high Carbon Monoxide levels I got a reading of 3-5 PPM. Well within acceptable levels according to all of the information online and advice given to me by other techs.

So I left it running and went ahead and bled the system. It does have rust inhibitor already in the system as I could smell it in the water when I bled the system.

Tonight is the first night it will be running, and I will leave the basement closed up and do a Carbon Monoxide test in the morning to see what the 8 hour levels are.

The meter is beside my chair and I will take readings throughout the night.

The system was hovering around the 12 lb pressure mark after the system was bled.

Thank You all so much for the advice. I have alot on my plate at this time and you all helped me gain the knowledge to accomplish his task.

 

[NC-Shaun]

The circulation pump itself sounds like its gettin old. If I remember correctly it used to run virtually silent, but the pump itself (separate, old style) is sounding slightly noisy as I type this I can hear it has an inconsistent noise to it, like a cavitating noise.

I think these old seperate motor/pump setups can be updated to an all in one motor, and pump housing combo.

May I have a link to one of these updated units please?

 

[dfiler2]

You might try shutting the pump off for a few seconds and see if it is just a little air caught on the suction side of the pump, it might work itself out. I like Taco pumps because of the replaceable cartridge, here is a link to a 009 which is a high head low volume pump, are there any numbers on the existing pump so you could match the pump curve?

Here is a link to the 009 http://www.zoro.com/taco-hot-water-...gclid=CK7R-qus_cgCFQumaQodhnkOOA&gclsrc=aw.ds
Here is a link to the Taco pump curves you would be wanting to match
https://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/curves009-0014.pdf

 

[NC-Shaun]

You might try shutting the pump off for a few seconds and see if it is just a little air caught on the suction side of the pump, it might work itself out. I like Taco pumps because of the replaceable cartridge, here is a link to a 009 which is a high head low volume pump, are there any numbers on the existing pump so you could match the pump curve?

Here is a link to the 009 http://www.zoro.com/taco-hot-water-...gclid=CK7R-qus_cgCFQumaQodhnkOOA&gclsrc=aw.ds
Here is a link to the Taco pump curves you would be wanting to match
https://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/curves009-0014.pdf

I will get some pictures of the spec sticker on the pump and a flange to flange measurement, I feel confident that I can replace the pump but dont wanna cause myself plumbing work so I wanna keep the spacing and flange style the same. Is this something that is standardized among flange style pumps?

I bookmarked the pump you linked me to, Thank You.

I also liked this one as well, just from a flange style, and pump housing perspective.

Thoughts on this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bell-Gosset...924986?hash=item235500187a:g:nKsAAOxymmJTkQIS

 

[NC-Shaun]

Pics of the circulation pump.

 

[NC-Shaun]

 

[dfiler2]

The flanges are standard, the distances can be different. I would look for a B&G distributor in your area and see what they say. The bar code on it suggests to me that it's not that old. I couldn't find that model but heren is a link to a 1/6 hp B&G.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Gossett-1BL001-PL-36-1-6-HP-Cast-Iron-Booster-Pump

EDIT: So after doing a little more looking around it appears the 1/6 B&G is probably a fairly low head high flow pump and the Taco 0012 would be a better fit. This is assuming you do need to replace the circulator. Here are the dimensions on a 0012 http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/0012Sht.pdf

 

[NC-Shaun]

The flanges are standard, the distances can be different. I would look for a B&G distributor in your area and see what they say. The bar code on it suggests to me that it's not that old. I couldn't find that model but heren is a link to a 1/6 hp B&G.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Gossett-1BL001-PL-36-1-6-HP-Cast-Iron-Booster-Pump

EDIT: So after doing a little more looking around it appears the 1/6 B&G is probably a fairly low head high flow pump and the Taco 0012 would be a better fit. This is assuming you do need to replace the circulator. Here are the dimensions on a 0012 http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/0012Sht.pdf

Thank You,
This boiler is in the basement of a 2 story home so it does have to push water up a distance and feed 8 radiators. I will bookmark the Taco 0012 unit as I also like the replaceable cartridge feature as well.

Last night the boiler didnt need to kick on until late in the night (after 2am, I was sleeping by then) but it seems the circulator has quieted down today. I would like to see this circulator pump make it through the winter. All radiators are warm, and the house is sitting at a comfy 75f temp. I had forgotten how much I like radiator heat over both gas and electric forced heat.

Nonetheless, I want to be prepared to replace this circulator pump and have a unit picked out already that is suitable for this application. So I greatly appreciate the knowledge and your time to point me to the Taco 0012 pump. I will remove the bookmarks from the other pumps I mentioned and the previous Taco unit we spoke of.

I will focus on the Taco 0012 and check the flange spacing of it and compare it to my B&G pump housing to confirm fitment. When I replace this pump I would like to flush the radiator system and use a high quality fluid/water.

May I have a recommendation for the water solution that will be best for this. I think there is a incoming water line with a gate valve that allows me to fill the reserve tank just by opening the valve. I am not sure, I am still learning this unit and house and the learning curve has been steep.

 

[NC-Shaun]

Just to confirm this is the correct Taco pump you suggested?

http://www.zoro.com/taco-hot-water-circulator-pump-18-hp-0012-f4-1/i/G3193881/

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Good to read you got it worked out with some effort and dedicated labor. As we have all learned, when something just doesn't make sense... question it.
(like your tech telling you to toss the furnace). Keep vigilant on the CO tests until your 100 % comfortable with the readings on an average. (get the furnace cycling for longer durations) Good job