Ingersoll Rand 118MAX vs Cornwell CAT3250AHMV - Professional Grade??

[gdocktor3]

I need a strong, hard hitting air hammer, that won't break the bank. I'm not a mechanic and cannot justify spending big bucks on something that will get seldom use, but at the same time I want to know I have the tool to get the job done each and every time. I have two short barrel hammers that are good for light stuff, but will not shear bolts or anything like that. I am stuck between buying the IR118MAX new for around $120 or if I should find a used Snappy or Matco on Ebay or from pawn shop.

I also saw Cornwell's CAT3250AHMV for a real good price new. I know Cornwell makes good tools, how about their air tools and this air hammer? Does it compare to Snap On's 3050? The Cornwell puts out 2000 BPM and Snappy is 2500 BPM, both with same stroke. I assume the Cornwell is better than the IR I mentioned. No?


Anyone use the IR118MAX that can compare it to any of the big name hammers? Can you guys give me some names and models of good Snappy, Matco, Mac, Cornwell, IR, etc air hammers that I can look for used? I want a hard hitter that will shear bolts. Size doesn't matter. Thanks

 

[shockwave]

I will tell you this the snap on ph3050 is a much better tool than both and you can find used fora descent price compared to the others I got mine thru Craigslist for 150 2 years ago

 

[bobcatdan]

Also look at CP. The big CP's kick like a mule. Even the 715 zip gun that can be had for under a $100 hits very hard. Big thing with any air hammer is a long stroke and a lower number of blows. A gun with 2000 to 2500 is much better then the cheap **** rated at 5000. I have a Matco one that is probably the same thing as the cornwell and it has proven to be a good gun.

 

[gdocktor3]

CP as in chicago or central pneumatic

 

[gooseadrian]

I have the 118 max and love it. Work on concrete trucks so you can imagine how much hell is goes through

 

[gdocktor3]

gooseadrian - have you used any other brand air hammers in the past that you can compare the 118 to? I know IR is a reputable brand, but their good stuff is usually pretty pricey. I am glad to hear a good review on it though.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Friend had the 118 short barrel. I like long barrel hammers. Mines the Cornwell, but a 3050 is bad ***

I will say short and long both have their place. I use mine with a long chisel for a lot of things. Fan clutches, rotor screws, rattle tie rods, Etc. short strokes seen to work better to work something out

 

[gdocktor3]

What cornwell do you have? And that is the exact reason I want a better one. I had to replace my 93' 7.3 diesel F250's fan clutch this weekend, which the last person installed with liquid nails. My air hammer wouldn't budge it. Had to torch it off.

 

[WhiffySpark]

What cornwell do you have?

3250. I've had it for 8 years

 

[WhiffySpark]

What cornwell do you have? And that is the exact reason I want a better one. I had to replace my 93' 7.3 diesel F250's fan clutch this weekend, which the last person installed with liquid nails. My air hammer wouldn't budge it. Had to torch it off.

I recently brought the air hammer fan clutch set. It was worth whatever I paid for it

 

[gdocktor3]

3250. I've had it for 8 years

So you recommend it then huh? Like I said, I have two short barrels that are good for, well not much.. I want to be able to shear bolts and stuff like that. Will the Cornwell 3250 do that and more?

 

[WhiffySpark]

It's good for the money. I always me art to buy a 3050 just because but I never have. Mine works for whatever I need usually. If not the blue wrench helps lol

 

[Olafur]

Look into air rivet guns, they are rated 2x,3x......9x
The x means: /16" (steel)
So 3x rivet gun can handle 3/16 steel rivets, and 7x can handle 7/16" steel rivets. As you can imagine there is a great difference between the two since 7/16 rivet has 5,4 times the square area of 3/16.

2x,3x,4x rivet guns use 0.400" shank like the automotive air hammers. 5x to 9x use 0.498 shank. Looking at these numbers it's obvious a 5x rivet gun hits harder than the 0.400 shank can take and therefore most/all "automotive" air hammers using the smaller shank.

Rivet guns have long stroke and good controllability, and since they are intended for production environment they last long, so buying one used can be a good deal if you need powerful air hammer.

 

[WhiffySpark]

They get really expensive to don't they

 

[purplezr2]

Very happy with by so 3050. Paid around 125 used for it. Good gun. Also bought the ir before I bought the snappy

 

[Olafur]

They get really expensive to don't they

New - yes some well north of $1K but you can find very good deals on ebay on used guns. Probably because most people don't know a rivet gun makes a great air hammer. Basically the same tool.

I recently picked up 7x gun barely used for $195 and 3x gun that shows some use but works great for $95. Both with floating barrel and air dampener in the handle to absorb vibration - each worth over 1200 new.

Judging by older threads here on G.J on the subject it's possible to find them at auctions, yard sales, pawn shops in the US very cheap.

 

[stikman56]

Also look at CP. The big CP's kick like a mule. Even the 715 zip gun that can be had for under a $100 hits very hard. Big thing with any air hammer is a long stroke and a lower number of blows. A gun with 2000 to 2500 is much better then the cheap **** rated at 5000. I have a Matco one that is probably the same thing as the cornwell and it has proven to be a good gun.

Chicago Pneumatic. Best bang for the buck really, they make 3-1/2" stroke hammers just like the PH3050 and they hit hard.

 

[plinker]

CP 7150 long barrel. Around 80$, hit's hard.

My brother had a 118 long barrel and it didnt hold up. He bought a S-O 3050.

 

[ttpete]

New - yes some well north of $1K but you can find very good deals on ebay on used guns. Probably because most people don't know a rivet gun makes a great air hammer. Basically the same tool.

I recently picked up 7x gun barely used for $195 and 3x gun that sows some use but works great for $95. Both with floating barrel and air dampener in the handle to absorb vibration - each worth over 1200 new.

Judging by older threads here on G.J on the subject it's possible to find them at auctions, yard sales, pawn shops in the US very cheap.

I agree. I have 2X and a 4X. A big advantage is that they are more controllable because of the throttling trigger. You can go from a slow tap-tap-tap to wide open. It's easy to walk a rusted nut off using a chisel against the flats. The impact breaks the rust bond and starts it moving without the danger of twisting the stud off.

 

[Olafur]

I agree. I have 2X and a 4X. A big advantage is that they are more controllable because of the throttling trigger. You can go from a slow tap-tap-tap to wide open. It's easy to walk a rusted nut off using a chisel against the flats. The impact breaks the rust bond and starts it moving without the danger of twisting the stud off.

Good point, I got some chisels on the way for mine and I am sure they will see rusted bolts and nuts in the future.

BTW, just this week I used my 3x gun to remove and install several sleeves for tapered bearings. (heavy truck transmission). I also used it to install two oil seals (60 and 110mm OD), one tap at a time on opposite side. Just like using 12oz hammer. Not saying it's practical or good way to install oil seals, but just goes to show how much control these guns have.

This is my first air hammer and I see plenty of use for it. (I am not counting the gutless cheap vibrators with on/off trigger)

 

[gdocktor3]

Thanks for the info guys. Its obvious the 3050 is the creme de la creme right now. Now, how will a 4x compare to a 3050? Or is a 3050 more like a 9x in the rivet gun world?

Also, what are some good names in the rivet gun world? I looked quickly on Ebay and saw IR, CP, then there was APT, Atlas Copco, US Industrial, Brown, etc

 

[Olafur]

Snap On 3050 uses the same shank as 2-4x rivet guns, so it must be in that size class. Snap On does not rate energy per blow so it's difficult to compare or know where it sits in the rivet gun world between 2-4x.
https://store.snapon.com/Super-Duty-Air-Hammer-Hammer-Air-Super-Duty-2-500-BPM--P739856.aspx

A much more powerful / harder hitting air hammer is the Chicago Pneumatic 717. Nothing strange about that since the 717 gun uses the bigger 0.498" (12,7mm) shank and uses much more air than the Snappy hammer. Different size class!

Model CP717
Power (Joules) 7.3 joule
Blows per minute 1800
Bore 19 mm
Stroke 68 mm
Chisel rivet set shank 12.7 mm
Shank Round
Net weight 2.15 kg
Length 190 mm
Actual air consumption 5.9 l/s
Actual air consumption 354 l/mn
[...]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chicago-Pne...961914?hash=item58b150743a:g:ywYAAOSw1-RUZjMg

For comparison:
The biggest Atlas Copco air riveter using the smaller 0.401 shank is the RRH06P and it delivers 6 joule per blow.

Next size up in their line, RRH08P uses the bigger shank 0.498 and delivers 8 joule per blow and is rated 5x gun
http://www.atlascopco.us/usus/products/material-removal-tools/1450560/1468309/


So It seems the CP717 would be rated 5x rivet gun if made by Atlas Copco.

Atlas 7x rivet gun, RRH12P gives 16 joule per blow, more than twice the energy of the CP717 and uses 780 l/min of air.

So no - if you want something that hits really hard the Snap On 3050 is not the creme de la creme. However it could be the hammer size you are looking for. A 7x rivet gun does not have many uses if you are fixing cars or small trucks. Heavy equipment is different story.

 

[stikman56]

Snap On 3050 uses the same shank as 2-4x rivet guns, so it must be in that size class. Snap On does not rate energy per blow so it's difficult to compare or know where it sits in the rivet gun world between 2-4x.
https://store.snapon.com/Super-Duty-Air-Hammer-Hammer-Air-Super-Duty-2-500-BPM--P739856.aspx

A much more powerful / harder hitting air hammer is the Chicago Pneumatic 717. Nothing strange about that since the 717 gun uses the bigger 0.498" (12,7mm) shank and uses much more air than the Snappy hammer. Different size class!


For comparison:
The biggest Atlas Copco air riveter using the smaller 0.401 shank is the RRH06P and it delivers 6 joule per blow.

Next size up in their line, RRH08P uses the bigger shank 0.498 and delivers 8 joule per blow and is rated 5x gun
http://www.atlascopco.us/usus/products/material-removal-tools/1450560/1468309/


So It seems the CP717 would be rated 5x rivet gun if made by Atlas Copco.

Atlas 7x rivet gun, RRH12P gives 16 joule per blow, more than twice the energy of the CP717 and uses 780 l/min of air.

So no - if you want something that hits really hard the Snap On 3050 is not the creme de la creme. However it could be the hammer size you are looking for. A 7x rivet gun does not have many uses if you are fixing cars or small trucks. Heavy equipment is different story.

This is true as far as I'm concerned, it's just hype. ( any time Snap-On gets mentioned...) Nothing against it at all, but hey there's hammers out there that hit as hard and for less dough. I use an MTS at work, it was dirt cheap, not working, cleaned it out, hits real hard, a 3-1/2" stroke hammer that was 17 bucks. Even new I think it's under 100 bucks on Ebay.

 

[purplezr2]

This is true as far as I'm concerned, it's just hype. ( any time Snap-On gets mentioned...) Nothing against it at all, but hey there's hammers out there that hit as hard and for less dough. I use an MTS at work, it was dirt cheap, not working, cleaned it out, hits real hard, a 3-1/2" stroke hammer that was 17 bucks. Even new I think it's under 100 bucks on Ebay.

Well this maybe true about the 3050 as far as being hype, I would not lump all snap on tools in that statement.


That said. I would say Matco/Mac/Snapon/IR/CP are more than likely the easiest to get a hold of and touch and feel before purchase.

 

[stikman56]

Well this maybe true about the 3050 as far as being hype, I would not lump all snap on tools in that statement.


That said. I would say Matco/Mac/Snapon/IR/CP are more than likely the easiest to get a hold of and touch and feel before purchase.

I wouldn't lump all of any brand of tool in that statement and that's not what I was meaning, but it came off that way I'm sure. I think for the price and quality and performance CP would be real hard to beat for this application, and I don't own one. I always like to see credit go where it's due and the bad stuff to be called what it is too.

 

[gdocktor3]

So is there any benefit to owning rivet gun over an air hammer if they are comparable in bpm and hitting power? I know not all hammer's triggers can be feathered, but it seems all rivet gun's can? Would that be the only real benefit of purchasing the rivet gun if they are the same in all other specs?

Basically I need a powerful long barrel hammer for working on my 1993 F250 diesel. Its rusty and crusty. Lots of original parts that are rock solid and difficult to remove. And then I have an older IH tractor and commercial landscaping equipment. So I don't need a 9X rivet gun, but I don't want to sell myself short and get one that will leave me hanging one day. So it seems a hammer comparable to the Snappy 3050 would fit my needs. Maybe a Mac AH650 or the Cornwell CAT3250 I mentioned. In rivet gun world that would be a 4x or the 5x with bigger shank if I understand correctly. Right?

Again, thanks for the help.

 

[ttpete]

So is there any benefit to owning rivet gun over an air hammer if they are comparable in bpm and hitting power? I know not all hammer's triggers can be feathered, but it seems all rivet gun's can? Would that be the only real benefit of purchasing the rivet gun if they are the same in all other specs?

Basically I need a powerful long barrel hammer for working on my 1993 F250 diesel. Its rusty and crusty. Lots of original parts that are rock solid and difficult to remove. And then I have an older IH tractor and commercial landscaping equipment. So I don't need a 9X rivet gun, but I don't want to sell myself short and get one that will leave me hanging one day. So it seems a hammer comparable to the Snappy 3050 would fit my needs. Maybe a Mac AH650 or the Cornwell CAT3250 I mentioned. In rivet gun world that would be a 4x or the 5x with bigger shank if I understand correctly. Right?

Again, thanks for the help.

4X is the biggest with a .401" shank. You can get a reducer to .401 for the bigger guns.

The riveters tend to run a bit slower than the muffler guns. The feathering trigger gives better control when doing certain jobs like walking a rusty seized nut loose.

 

[Finky198]

I have the Atlas copco rrh12p-ts and yes it's and animal but It is Limited by the length its quite a bit longer than most air hammers although it does it with a lot of power
The 118max is a nice gun. The cp717 is expensive but super solid, but if you can get a used Atlas Copco I really think your getting the best value and quality there is.
4x or 6x would be a good start check ebay

"BFAH" its like an air powered sledge hammer

 

[gdocktor3]

Is US Airtool out of NY any good? Or US Industrial? I'm looking to buy used because lets face it, my tools don't make me money. From what I've seen on Ebay they are all made of metal, and from reputable brands. Not like the air hammers I see made in China and Bangladesh made of plastic and stuff. Are there any brands I should stay away from because parts are hard to find, or, they are simply junk?

 

[ttpete]

Is US Airtool out of NY any good? Or US Industrial? I'm looking to buy used because lets face it, my tools don't make me money. From what I've seen on Ebay they are all made of metal, and from reputable brands. Not like the air hammers I see made in China and Bangladesh made of plastic and stuff. Are there any brands I should stay away from because parts are hard to find, or, they are simply junk?

My 4X came from these folks, and it's a good sturdy gun. www.aircraft-tool.com

 

[gdocktor3]

Well I found a Mac ah750 on eBay for a great price because it was missing the retainer spring. I bought it now I need a quick change coupling. My Florida pneumatic has one of the silver aluminum ones that you thread on and off, but I would like a better one for the Mac. I see snap on and Matco couplings don't have any set screws whereas ir and grey pneumatics do have set screws. Anyone use the ir, Napa, gp, or like couplers with the set screws? How well do they work? I read a few reviews that say they don't fit and loosen up. Others say they're great.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Ease of warranty and ease of use. I didn't even know about river guns until I came on here. The best one I knew of was the 3050