WILLIAMS Tools of Industry show yours and post any history or company details you can

[drivesitfar]

Since Williams has made tools for around a hundred years they deserve a vintage thread. As soon as my laptop is able to I will post pictures of some of mine.

If anybody has some to post please do too.

Also please add any links or history about these awesome old USA made tools that you know or find

 

[jakemac]

To start, here are some links to other GJ threads about Williams tools. There may be some discussions about Vintage Williams found within :
Williams superrench NOS.
JH Williams catalog 401 PDF - 50's
Show Your Williams
Williams Supercombo wrench on Snap on "how its made"

a direct link to -
Williams Superrench Catalog 1927
Williams Catalog 401

and a link to -
"Vanished Tool Makers: J.H. Williams & Company, Brooklyn & Buffalo, New York"

 

[drivesitfar]

Jake: thanks for the links in your post.

ALL: here are more links to Williams catalogs, threads and history that i'll add to this post as they appear in our posts.

CATALOGS:
HISTORY:

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: i found this Williams tool board that holds a 3/4 inch ratchet set with sockets and accessories. i have the 3/4 inch Williams ratchet to put on it once I find a place for it to hang. another member also found this catalog picture for me of the board filled up so i (we) know what should be on the board.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: not sure if this Williams wrench is a vintage or new model so posting to find out. anybody know??

also a drawer full of Williams and wondering if they are old like new condition or newer line of Williams wrenches.

thanks

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: a couple Williams screwdrivers that seem to very good quality.

 

[3baygarage]

Drives this is another thread about JH Williams from earlier this year:

JH Williams vintage hand tools

Your wrenches look older rather than new production.

 

[Tippletrash]

Here's a couple of superjustable wrenches not sure of exact age on them though.

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

Since this seems to be the newer thread for old Williams stuff, I want to show off my two newest additions to my collection. I usually keep all the old Brooklyn stamped tools, and one in particular is pretty cool.







Had no idea that ratcheting open end designs went back over 100 years ago!

 

[twertsy]

Folks,
This is timely. I found this page yesterday and have corresponded with Maggie through email. Her site is BY FAR the most comprehensive in terms of data on the early days of J. H. Williams. There are exact dates of historical events, employee relations programs/issues, employee names and addresses, building and address specifics, fire prevention measures, and on and on. Do me a favor and shoot Maggie a gratuitous email if you enjoy the read, she seems like a great lady. Now, grab your pot of coffee and Click This Link.

 

[safariknut]

Here are some from my accumulation.Of special interest (to me anyway)is the Williams ratchet.I thought it was 1/4 inch drive but when I went to fit it to a socket it was too big. Did they make 9/32nds drive ratchets?

 

[jakemac]

9/32nds drive was an early standard that got pushed out when the use of 1/4dr expanded in the early to mid 1900's. It's easy to mistake it for 1/4dr because it's so close. Many an "expert" have been fooled.

The tools are mostly picked up by collectors as a curiosity now, but don't necessarily command high prices by themselves.

 

[altersaddle]

I've posted a bunch of my Williams stuff, but forgot about this one that I sold on ebay - described as "Williams 968A T-handle wrench. 7/16" 6-point socket. Also stamped with S."

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

Found another old Brooklyn last night while I was cleaning out an old box

 

[twertsy]

9/32nds drive was an early standard that got pushed out when the use of 1/4dr expanded in the early to mid 1900's. It's easy to mistake it for 1/4dr because it's so close. Many an "expert" have been fooled.

The tools are mostly picked up by collectors as a curiosity now, but don't necessarily command high prices by themselves.

Actually I believe you'll only find 9/32 drive on wartime tools. Supposedly the Defense Department (War Department) did that so the enemy couldn't pick them up and use them...........

 

[MAD]

Actually I believe you'll only find 9/32 drive on wartime tools. Supposedly the Defense Department (War Department) did that so the enemy couldn't pick them up and use them...........

This is not correct.

 

[twertsy]

This is not correct.

Well that was informative. Please explain. I've not seen a chrome 9/32 drive tool, all cadmium plated, which tells me war. Educate us please.

 

[MAD]

Well that was informative. Please explain. I've not seen a chrome 9/32 drive tool, all cadmium plated, which tells me war. Educate us please.

9/32" drive started in the 1920s (popularized by Snap-on). The 1/4" drive standard eventually became more popular and replaced it. Many tools in the 1930s -40s were not chrome plated. The idea that 9/32 drive was only military is a myth, although 9/32" drive tools were certainly produced for the military as well as the general public.

 

[twertsy]

Thank you, I'll have to research that. I know SO made 5/8 drive, but didn't know about the 9/32.

 

[safariknut]

9/32" drive started in the 1920s (popularized by Snap-on). The 1/4" drive standard eventually became more popular and replaced it. Many tools in the 1930s -40s were not chrome plated. The idea that 9/32 drive was only military is a myth, although 9/32" drive tools were certainly produced for the military as well as the general public.

Interesting. As for the chrome plating;it didn't become widely used(on automobiles anyway)until after the early to mid 1930's. The Williams ratchet I posted appears to be chrome plated(nickel usually has more of a yellowish tint whereas chrome leans toward a bluish tint). I thought this may have been military issue as the estate I bought it from had many military items. I just thought it kind of a unique piece as well as the J O Mfg. Co in-line ratchet which is also 9/32nds drive.

 

[twertsy]

If you're looking for J.H. Williams history, here's a link to the 1907 volume of the Iron Age magazine, chronicling their soup to nuts operations, employee amenities, etc. This link will get you to the search, but you may have to do a little work to find and read each volume in sequential order. Appears to be at least 6 volumes/editions.

 

[four.cycle]

Many tools in the 1930s -40s were not chrome plated

okay... so help me out here... I've seen early stuff that appeared to be cad plated, but not chrome plated.
from what I've seen, it would seem chrome plating didn't come in until after WWII. (of course, I don't claim to have seen everything.)
maybe I've been misinformed, but my understanding was that WWII vintage stuff was not chrome plated because they were using all the chrome for weapons manufacturing.
fact? myth? fantasy?

and another thing...
were some of the wrench manufacturers all following some sort of "standard" part numbering system at some time? or am I imagining things?
i.e., previous page: 731B wrench.
seems I've seen same numbers on different brands of wrenches: Williams/Owatonna/Indestro/Duro-Chrome... wrench designs are completely different - so obviously they came out of different manufacturing plants - but part numbers are similar.
feedback?

<edit 15:09 PST> woody just answered a question in another thread regarding cad plating. hoping he'll chime in here and give us some feedback on that one. good possibility I have no clue what I'm talking about on the plating thing. (that's what happens when you listen to the BS from sales reps, I guess.)

 

[woody 73]

To the best of my knowledge Williams started the Numbering system in doing some simple fact finding on the web I came across the following information:

http://alloy-artifacts.org/table_oe_wrench.html

Then a time table for the metal make-up chrome before the war years, then with a shortage of metals needed for the war effort cad plated.

http://alloy-artifacts.org/williams-supercompany-p3.html#alloy

Does that help you out .

 

[woody 73]

It got so bad that during the war the Government did everything they could to save metal take a look at what they did to car license plates:

http://wwiijeepparts.com/Archives/1942_1945RestampedLicensePlate.html

While on a trip to London my wife would show me all the nice homes and she would say all the large Iron gates are mostly gone because they were so desperate for the scrap metal everything was turned in.

 

[four.cycle]

obviously I haven't spend enough hours reading the AA site.
thank you again.

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody and Twertsy: thanks a lot for the links and hopefully i'll get my laptop to stay on long enough to be able to read them when i have some time.

All: thanks for posting the Williams tools you have and asking questions because i for one know very little about them other than they made very high quality tools.

post more as you are able and i'll start pulling out mine and taking more myself. i have a nice socket set that includes the 32nd sizing in a nice metal case that I'm guessing is from the 50's i'll take pictures of for sure.

have a great Thanksgiving everybody

 

[Rileysan]

There was another thread that I posted these to, but I'm more than happy to post here.

Williams 1/2 drive deep socket set that I purchased many years ago (I have no idea when, where, or how much) that appears to be from two different eras. I am missing one socket from the set (Proto replacement).

Brian

 

[Pumpman1968]

When I found this, it was mostly a rotten piece of wood..........like maybe the side or end of a box.

 

[twertsy]

When I found this, it was mostly a rotten piece of wood..........like maybe the side or end of a box.

I'd sooner think that was a display board. Local metal guys also sell Williams tools and have them on boards where the top looks just like that.

 

[Bryan Burns]

Most of mine.

3/4 oe wrench E.W. Bliss 508
doe wrench 730
oe engineer's wrench 5
tapper wrench c94
doe "S" wrench 663A
doe wrench superrench 1108
3/16 oe engineer''s wrench 500
1/2 3/8 oe wrench 30
3/8 7/16 oe wrencnh supperrench A1723
15/16 combo wrench BXOE-30
7/8 3/4 oe wrech SUPERRENCH 1731A
diagonal pliers no,46
4" c clamp no. 404
9/16 1/2 oe wrench supperrecnh 1725B
7/16 3/8 oe wrench 723
1/2 7/16 oe wrench 725
1/2 9/16 OE WRENCH THE "SUPERRENCH" 1725B
5/8 11/16 OE WRENCH THE "SUPERRENCH" 1092F
5/8 engineer's oe wrench SUPERRENCH 1703
7/8 3/4 oe wrench
1/4 COMBO WRENCH SUPERRENCH 1158
7/16 3/8 DBE OFFSET WRENCH SUPERRENCH 7723
11/32 5/16 OFFSET DBE SUPERRENCH 1153
slip joint pliers NO.6
WATER PUMP PLIERS PL1519-C
8" ADJ WRENCH
3/8 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1212 QTY 2
1/2 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1216 QTY 2
9/16 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1218 QTY 2
19/32 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1219
11/16 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1222 QTY 2
3/4 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1224
25/32 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1225
13/16 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1226 qty 3
25/32 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1225
7/8 SOCKET 1/2 DRIVE ST-1228








I learned through a link on the forum from another Williams thread that E.W. Bliss was a cousin of J.H. Williams.









The Williams No.6 is the best pair of slip joints I own and I own about 50 pairs. That said, we all know slip joints are the least useful of pliers types.



Williams 404 "light service" clamp is one of my favorite heavy duty clamps, on par with Armstrong and Hargrave. Any one have a Williams "heavy service" clamp?

 

[drivesitfar]

Bryan: great post and awesome pictures. just curious how are you putting that finish on your wrenches and tools? wire wheeling and maybe some BLO or do tell the process because i like it a lot?

thanks

 

[jakemac]

While sorting through my Grandfather's tools this week, I came across a little surprise. A wrench roll I never knew he had. It was hidden in an empty Porta-Power case.

The sad thing (other than loosing my grandfather) was that for the last 2-1/2 years I've been hunting for individual Superrenches to complete a set. I had been telling him about my searches, and how much money I've spent the whole time, and he never let on that he had half the set stashed away in the garage. He kept telling me that I was spending too much money on a name brand when my vintage Craftsmans were good enough. I kept telling him that that wasn't the point.

My Grandfather was holding out on me the whole time.

The last picture is of the set I've been putting together over the years.

 

[drivesitfar]

Jake: i bet your Gramps knew you would find them and is smiling big time now. congrats and wishing i could find a few of those old tool rolls. i bet you have the missing ones to fill up the roll too.

cheers

 

[jakemac]

Jake: i bet you have the missing ones to fill up the roll too.

cheers

Yup.

 

[Bryan Burns]

Bryan: great post and awesome pictures. just curious how are you putting that finish on your wrenches and tools? wire wheeling and maybe some BLO or do tell the process because i like it a lot?

thanks

Whatever it takes. I'm a little abnormal though in that I'll spend 45 minutes polishing a $5 tool. It's a real form of OCD with me. I've entertained thoughts of going into business cleaning tools

Steel wire wheel + solid brass wire wheel + sandpaper + steel wool + dremel tool + PC profile sander + flap wheel + sandflex or any combination of these. First is a heavy cleaning with TSP followed by a vinegar or Evaporust bath though. The final coating is almost always paste wax. I find it easier than BLO.

I only recently discovered the flap wheel and it seems to be the most efficient, better than the brass wire wheel. I'm running the flap wheel on my drill press but I'm looking for one for a grinder.

 

[Rileysan]

Whatever it takes. I'm a little abnormal though in that I'll spend 45 minutes polishing a $5 tool. It's a real form of OCD with me. I've entertained thoughts of going into business cleaning tools

Steel wire wheel + solid brass wire wheel + sandpaper + steel wool + dremel tool + PC profile sander + flap wheel + sandflex or any combination of these. First is a heavy cleaning with TSP followed by a vinegar or Evaporust bath though. The final coating is almost always paste wax. I find it easier than BLO.

I only recently discovered the flap wheel and it seems to be the most efficient, better than the brass wire wheel. I'm running the flap wheel on my drill press but I'm looking for one for a grinder.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is BLO?

Brian

 

[ganymede]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is BLO?

Brian

Boiled linseed oil.

 

[HeelSpur]

These were my last box buy.

 

[Kensgarage]

Looks familiar !

 

[drivesitfar]

Heel: how the heck old are you?? or when was the last year you could buy those? i'm guessing 1960's or maybe earlier?

Ken: Craftsman/Sears did hire quality tool makers to make their stuff. not surprised to see that.