Running water to garage........

[Ihateclevernames]

Hey guys, just wanted to bounce a few things off of you guys that have may done something like this before.

I would like to run water our to my new shop that I am building, however the only place that I will be able to tap into water is in the garage of my home. The water lines are in the ceiling due to it having a basement, so I was considering tapping in to one of those lines and running it out of the house at the rim joist and then running a line down along side of the garage, in to the ground and then trenching out to the building.

The issue with this is that I will have about 8' of exposed piping on the exterior of the house that may be subject to freezing prior to it entering the ground and running to the garage.

Any ways to circumvent this issue?

It will be impossible to enter the ground from inside the house without having the piping exposed at one point or another. Also, tapping into the supply like will be out of the question as well due to its long distance from the garage.

I was planning on just running Roll Poly or PEX below the frost line then installing a frost free hydrant near the building.

Thanks!

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Hey guys, just wanted to bounce a few things off of you guys that have may done something like this before.

I would like to run water our to my new shop that I am building, however the only place that I will be able to tap into water is in the garage of my home. The water lines are in the ceiling due to it having a basement, so I was considering tapping in to one of those lines and running it out of the house at the rim joist and then running a line down along side of the garage, in to the ground and then trenching out to the building.

The issue with this is that I will have about 8' of exposed piping on the exterior of the house that may be subject to freezing prior to it entering the ground and running to the garage.

Any ways to circumvent this issue?

It will be impossible to enter the ground from inside the house without having the piping exposed at one point or another. Also, tapping into the supply like will be out of the question as well due to its long distance from the garage.

I was planning on just running Roll Poly or PEX below the frost line then installing a frost free hydrant near the building.

Thanks!

Depends a lot on your town's lowest temperature ranges. The only way I know to protect exposed water lines is sleeves, insulation and heat tape that I know of. Knowing whether the heat tape is working or not, is essential...meaning checking it every very cold day. . good luck. JMO

 

[Ihateclevernames]

Yeah, sounds like my options are limited unless I were to go all the way back into the driveway and find the main supply and then branch off of that.

Which will be quite the pain.

I live just outside of Nashville, so it doesn't get awful, but it sure gets cold enough to freeze exposed pipes. Hopefully someone will see this that has found a solution that works.

Im no plumber, but I wonder if somehow it could be treated like a frost free hydrant and omit all of the water in the line after use or something like that?

 

[OccupantRJ]

I had a water line installed at work to service an out building. The plumbers ran pex through the wall, turned downward with a 90, then went into the ground with it. They then formed a flanged box, or chase, over it, then filled the chase with play sand to about 4" on all sides of the pipe. The chase was then capped with a metal sloped top attached with screws. It has been through two winters here in NC with temps down as low as 9 degrees with no problems.

A method of protecting pipes here I have also used is pvc pipe with the rubber insulating sleeve over it. I slid a larger 2" pvc pipe over the outside of the insulation during assembly. Fittings were then sectioned with a saw, placed in position, and glued with pvc glue. This essentially gives you an insulated, jacketed pipe assembly. This has worked very well for me and gives a nice looking end product.

 

[OccupantRJ]

A waterbox can be installed in the ground at the piping's lowest point. In this box put a water faucet which can then be used to drain the system once the water is shut off. A faucet higher up will need to be open to allow proper draining by allowing air in. If a faucet is installed right after the shut off point this will drain the main line, while opening one in the garage will do the rest.

 

[manwithtools]

I live just outside of Nashville, so it doesn't get awful, but it sure gets cold enough to freeze exposed pipes. Hopefully someone will see this that has found a solution that works.

I live just outside Nashville too (Lebanon to be exact) and the line to my shop was installed by the previous owner for about two feet out side the building and encased in polyurethane foam (4 inches worth). It froze the second year we lived there. If you cant keep it underground or have heat tape on the exposed section it will likely get cold enough to freeze, even here.

An alternative is not to use it in the winter which might require blowing it out every fall.

 

[bob15]

Drain out the water line in the fall/early winter. I also leave the valves in the basement and in my barn open as well.

 

[Streetbu]

I ran water to my garage. Had to drill thru the basement wall, then slightly uphill about 15' to the garage. I was only able to bury the line about 14-16" deep so I used pipe insulation around it. Temps last winter were often -25 overnight, sometimes even colder. Since I was obviously concerned about it freeing with it being so shallow, I installed a tee, a shut off, and a drain in my basement. I usually turn the water off around December and back on around April. I can use itydung the winter, but MUST drain it when I'm done. No issues doing this since I installed it about 8 years ago. Not ideal but it is what it is and its better than nothing!

 

[Ihateclevernames]

Sounds like this is going to get a little more complicated than I thought.

I like the idea of running a channel with sand in it or something like that in order to insulate it, however that would require a little more planning than I am prepared to do right now, as the ditch witch will be here tomorrow.

Looks like we might be using the old hose for a while.

While many of these might work, having to blow the line out every fall and shut the water off will be something that will ultimately be forgotten about, especially with my work schedule and end up in disaster. Maybe someone out there has an idea on something else to consider.

Thanks for the replies thus far!

 

[Denwood]

You may find this thread helpful: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309814

I used self regulating heat trace and a simple Honeywell control to energize the system only when slab temps drop below freezing. There are a few FLIR images as well. Pretty simple to install.

 

[jim whitney]

His about a 4" piece of pvc pipe, longer than what you need, center your water pipe inside it with a piece of wood or whatever on each end . Maybe a piece made with a holesaw? Drill holes in the pic every 6" or so, get some great stuff foam at the hardware store and fill the 4" with it .whatever is left for length bury and connect to the buried line.

 

[Denwood]

If you check the link above, did similar with inexpensive weeping tile. It already has holes so if you cut the spray foam tip sharp, you can inject using the weeping tile for containment.

 

[Ihateclevernames]

His about a 4" piece of pvc pipe, longer than what you need, center your water pipe inside it with a piece of wood or whatever on each end . Maybe a piece made with a holesaw? Drill holes in the pic every 6" or so, get some great stuff foam at the hardware store and fill the 4" with it .whatever is left for length bury and connect to the buried line.

So you are thinking that by just using the closed cell foam around the water pipe such as PEX will insulate it enough to run the water out to the garage? I wish it were that easy, however I may have to go with a rain barrel or something like that with a pump in it.

Or just **** it up and walk the 60" back to the house in order to do what needs to be done.

 

[MushCreek]

The question I have is what will you do to prevent freezing inside the garage? Unless you plan to heat it all winter, the pipes inside will freeze. I live in SC, and my barn gets below freezing from time to time during the winter. I shut mine off and drain the pipes when it gets cold. Set an alarm on your smart phone or something to remind you when winter settles in. Do they have an app for that?

 

[JunkYardDawg]

The question I have is what will you do to prevent freezing inside the garage? Unless you plan to heat it all winter, the pipes inside will freeze.

Good point.

I have an equipment shed for my tractors and atvs, and I have a water line run to it about a foot underground, which is definitely not below frost line up here. I built in a shutoff valve and a schrader valve inside the house to blow all the water out each year before it gets too cold.

If the op can get by without it for a couple months out of a year, this will probably be the simplest and cheapest solution.

 

[matt_i]

I think I read that you have a basement...can't you just tap into water in the basement and drill out thru the basement wall, below grade?

Any insulation is just a resistor, in electrical analogy. It slows heat flow, but doesn't stop it. So no matter what insulation the temp will eventually equalize unless there is some heat source to drive it in a different direction.

I have heard that PEX can take some freeze cycles without bursting (will stop flowing) without damage. But that is hearsay, I haven't tried it for myself.

The frost free hydrant should be fine, but pay attention to the base when building it, don't just pack it in dirt...it needs some pea gravel, ideally with a silt sock, for the vertical pipe to drain out into the soil as the valve is shifted to closed/off.

 

[Denwood]

So you are thinking that by just using the closed cell foam around the water pipe such as PEX will insulate it enough to run the water out to the garage? I wish it were that easy, however I may have to go with a rain barrel or something like that with a pump in it.

Or just **** it up and walk the 60" back to the house in order to do what needs to be done.

That's why I used self regulating heat trace. The insulation is only there to ensure the heat trace thermal energy goes in the right direction. It also uses less energy as it heats up. Good luck with your project.

 

[Ihateclevernames]

I think I read that you have a basement...can't you just tap into water in the basement and drill out thru the basement wall, below grade?

Any insulation is just a resistor, in electrical analogy. It slows heat flow, but doesn't stop it. So no matter what insulation the temp will eventually equalize unless there is some heat source to drive it in a different direction.

I have heard that PEX can take some freeze cycles without bursting (will stop flowing) without damage. But that is hearsay, I haven't tried it for myself.

The frost free hydrant should be fine, but pay attention to the base when building it, don't just pack it in dirt...it needs some pea gravel, ideally with a silt sock, for the vertical pipe to drain out into the soil as the valve is shifted to closed/off.

Unfortunately, it is a finished basement so I will be unable to run it below grade through the basement wall.

The most direct route would be to come out through the garage wall and Go into the ground, however that is where the exposed pipe will come from.

Even at the rim joist in the ceiling of the basement is above grade so no dice on that one as well.

Looks like I might be SOL on this one, at least for the time being.

 

[jim whitney]

So why can,t you go through the garage floor ,dig down outside, go to the house ,drill through the cellar wall bury it and be done with it.i once dug a trench from my house to my sauna for water, electricity, and phone. 87' 3' deep. I,d go 8' a night after work ,with pick and shovel.