The Best Light Fixture Ever!

[horsa]

Good to know up front about that potential flicker issue. I got two cases of the 22w tubes before they all disappeared but really need another case. Not willing to pay their new higher price for the 22w though so had been looking for other options since I have time to wait while dealing with other construction issues. Guess I'll get the 18w tubes for the reliability.

For housings, we went with the PLT version but got them via 1000 bulbs Amazon link since their shipping calculator is erroring on the friendly side. Shipping for one unit is $4.95 but any quantity greater than one unit only recalculates to $6.95 for the lot purchased. My application is 30x60x12 so obviously we needed more than one

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013DZ3ENI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

 

[GT350SVO]

OK, I am looking at two different systems:

1) 4 Ft. 2-Lamp Standard Strip light (price varies $12-16 each)
Ballast: SYLVANIA QHE4X32T8/UNV PSH-HT, Item No. 49455
Lamps: 84,000 hr SYLVANIA 22167 FO28/841XP/XL/SS/ECO3 for $5.60 ea.
5696 lumens, 64W, 101.7 Lumens per Watt
7 Year warranty

2) 18W James LED Bypass $10.99
MaxLite LED Ready Strip Hsg $12.50
4320 lumens, 36W, 120 Lumens per Watt
5 Year warranty, 50000 hrs

Obviously, a lot depends on what you can get the components for but it appears the two are very similarly priced when you use one ballast per two 4 ft fixtures. I would need a few more LED lights to get the same light output as the fluorescent setup. However, the LED setup seems to be an easier wiring and install option. The Fluorescent has an edge on 7 yr warranty but after warranty period, it would seem the LEDs would be less costly and an easier replacement (ballasts are expensive). There are a few other pros / cons but I am thinking the LEDs have a very slight overall advantage. I realize this is a moving target but what am I missing?

 

[Brad J.]

I bought a few of the 49455 ballast to power 96" strip lights and Octron 8000K bulbs. This was to check to see if I wanted to go that route. Currently my shop is lighted with 8000k bulbs with cheap ballasts that came in Lithonia strips. After about 4-5 years the stock ballasts are starting to fail. This is 10-14 hours a day 7 days a week.

I also bought 8 James 19.5 watt bulbs to experiment in the same fixtures.

The ballasts with 8000k octron bulbs easilly beat the Led in color quality. The 5000k led is yellow compared to the 8000k. Brightness is about the same. Putting up 2 8' strips this week with the 8 led james bulbs to replace the old t12 that are over 10 years old and are starting to lose the ballast. I'll have a better opinion as to whether or not I like them.

I love my 8000 bulbs but I'm converting storage to shop and will have a total of 160 t8 bulbs not including the paint booth. It's looking like these led will work ok in all of the shop except where I sand and buff the paint. Not sure I'm sold on the color yet. Looking to drop some of the electrical load and this looks like a good way to do it.

 

[Platonic Solid]

GT350SVO - You've got it right, which is what makes the choice so difficult.

It's even worse when someone comes along and posts $4.50 Lamps and $22 ballasts.

 

[matemike]

You got it exactly right.
Something like the Lithonia ZL1N series at $150 ea. (linked) would work quite nicely with 3 rows of 6, thus 18 x $150 = $2700

That's a great light at a great price. Thanks Platonic.

However my building is being stubborn to allow 3 rows of 6 due to purlin spacing, framed opening supports, and overhead taught wires in two of the "bays".

Therefore I've managed to design a plan of four rows of four to make 16 fixtures total. This should still be plenty of light being that I have white ceiling and walls, plus I'll be painting the purlins white. But mounting 16 fixtures myself still seems daunting. And it'll be an even larger hassle to make my four separate zones. Not to mention the taught wires still pose a hassle for surface mounting, but I think I can squeeze the 2.125" tall fixture between the purlins and wires. They run horizontally at about 2.5" under the purlins.

All this is depicted in my excel sketches attached.


I've considered this fixture instead. Only considered at this point.

http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/tzl1n-l96-14lm-f-mv-35k-80-wh.htm

I'll be able to mount two rows of four of these 8 footers. And easily keep my four different zones with minimal wire runs. I still get the same amount of lumens and still get the same linear coverage by using 8x8' fixtures = 64 feet of strip light. (16x4' fixtures = 64 feet of strip light.) I just don't get as close to the corner coverage with the 8' fixtures, but I get better coverage from front to back of the 40' length of the shop.

Thoughts?

 

[ExxWhy]

ExxWhy - At 13.5' mounting height, LED really isn't cost effective. I'd go with Qty. 23, 8ft 4-lamp F32T8 Tandem strip lights with a high ballast factor Ballast (BF = 1.15 min), thus 92 lamps. Suggested ballast = Sylvania 49455

Perimeter fixtures all 3ft from respective wall. 1ft space between each in 4 fixture rows.
Here are the photometric results in PDF.

Could I use this shop light as the basis for my fixture? https://www.doitbest.com/products/4-fluorescent-shop-light-fixture
Is the reflector a bad thing for my application? I don't think it has knockouts on the end, but that's easily solved. I'd toss the cord and the ballast of course. And just to be sure, the t12 bi-pin sockets work with T8 bulbs??

 

[Platonic Solid]

matemike - The 16x7000 is much better than the 8x14000. You really should give Dialux Evo a shot. You mention earlier that the fixtures would be at 22.5°, which would give you a 5:12 pitch and 18'+ peak height, so the numbers aren't adding up. Do you have a profile drawing the shows purlin location dimensions?

I assume you are aware that all these lights can run on 1 circuit. You don't need 4 zones unless that's what you want for other reasons.

 

[Platonic Solid]

ExxWhy - Why not just use the Maxlite housing that comes prewired? Not that doing this changes my previous statement about LED cost at your ceiling height. If you must have LED at 13ft then you need to pony up the cash for something like the above linked Lithonia ZL series. Just for the record, 36 4ft 2-lamp James LED lamped fixtures (thus 72 bulbs) will yield an avg of 57fc. Reflectors make no difference with LED lamps that have less than 180° aperture.

 

[ExxWhy]

ExxWhy - Why not just use the Maxlite housing that comes prewired? Not that doing this changes my previous statement about LED cost at your ceiling height. If you must have LED at 13ft then you need to pony up the cash for something like the above linked Lithonia ZL series. Just for the record, 36 4ft 2-lamp James LED lamped fixtures (thus 72 bulbs) will yield an avg of 57fc. Reflectors make no difference with LED lamps that have less than 180° aperture.

I was going with your T8 fluorescent plan since you did mention the LED's aren't for me. I'm just looking for a cheap housing to put together with the ballast you linked. Will these Maxlite housings work to house the T8 fluorescent ballast and lamps?

 

[Platonic Solid]

ExxWhy - Sorry, I misunderstood your intention. Shop lights may be cheap, but I'm not sure I could justify the effort to convert them just to save a couple dollars. I'm sure you could build a fluorescent fixture with the Maxlite housing. I'd get some quotes on High BF tandem fixtures first. You can specify whatever ballast you want. It's common practice.

 

[matemike]

matemike - The 16x7000 is much better than the 8x14000. You really should give Dialux Evo a shot. You mention earlier that the fixtures would be at 22.5°, which would give you a 5:12 pitch and 18'+ peak height, so the numbers aren't adding up. Do you have a profile drawing the shows purlin location dimensions?

I assume you are aware that all these lights can run on 1 circuit. You don't need 4 zones unless that's what you want for other reasons.

Correct. It is a 14° pitch being 3/12. I was thinking 3/12=1/4. And 1/4 of 90° = 22.5. But finally broke out the scientific calculator and figured it is 14°.


I am aware I can run all these lights to one circuit, but I want to run four switches.

In case you can't tell, I'm a noob at wiring up a breaker box, but I have friends who know electricity and a cousin who is a master electrician so someone will help me with the wiring.

With the shop only being 30x40 I may just make one switch afterall. I might be trying to be too fancy.

 

[ExxWhy]

ExxWhy - Sorry, I misunderstood your intention. Shop lights may be cheap, but I'm not sure I could justify the effort to convert them just to save a couple dollars. I'm sure you could build a fluorescent fixture with the Maxlite housing. I'd get some quotes on High BF tandem fixtures first. You can specify whatever ballast you want. It's common practice.

I'm planning to wire them with 2 switches per row which illuminate every other 4' fixture and space them all 6" apart just for aesthetics. I'd like to have the option of having half power depending on what I am doing and if it's daylight or not. I have a fair amount of natural light through windows. It will make it easiest with the wiring if I build my own fixtures from some housings and the 49455 ballast you suggested. Time consuming, but I have time.

I can get the shop lights from my local store which is always a plus to me. Would the reflector be detrimental for my use?

I was also wondering about bulbs, but didn't see the 49455 ballast listed in your excel file. Did you have a particular bulb in mind?

 

[GT350SVO]

The 49455 is the four bulb version ballast
The 49450 is the two bulb version
Per the spreadsheet, FO32/25W/841/XP/XL/SS/ECO3 is the bulb listed and would work for both. Of course, there are a wide variety of bulbs that would work.

https://assets.sylvania.com/assets/Documents/ECS414.29d6aea1-72dc-480a-966a-3ba272a813a2.pdf

 

[billsnogo]

Man, I thought going with six of the two bulb 4' t8's was going to be overkill, now it sounds like I will be still in the dark.....

I have a 24'x24'x10' garage that WILL be sheetrocked with flat ceiling. Will the LED's be good? Will 10 of the LED be enough? The garage will be car work area on one half, the other half will be where my Fadal cnc is going.
thanks

Many more questions including wiring and insulation coming later

 

[Brad J.]

Over the weekend I replaced 2 8' T12 fixtures with T-8's and installed 8 of the James 19.5 watt bulbs.

This area is over one of my workbenches. Pretty good light. Not really an improvement over the t12. Never complained about the t12's light as I found a nice white bulb years ago. Still have an area of 20' by 20' using the original 4 8' t12 fixtures I built the barn with. I'm thinking about replacing those as the ballasts are starting to fail. I think with the LED I can run three rows of two eight footers instead of the 2 rows of two that I have now.

I wish the light was more white than yellow though. Buddy stopped in yesterday and asked him what he thought. He liked my florescents better and he's pretty clueless when it comes to this stuff.

My flourescents are powered by the cheap ballasts that came in the light also. If I was to replace those with the 49455 ballast the light would crush the leds. Shop is running off a 100amp breaker and with all these lights I just need to drops some watts. Otherwise I wouldn't even mess with the led's until they have them dialed in.

A good ballast and a good bulb is tough to beat.

 

[Joe Cool]

...At 13.5' mounting height, LED really isn't cost effective.

Can we get a little more information on what happens with LED that make them less cost effective at 13.5'? And what is the exact height where this occurs?

I have a 36'x50'x13' shop and was hoping to use your recent "best bang for the buck LED bypass" recommendation.

 

[soj]

Over the weekend I replaced 2 8' T12 fixtures with T-8's and installed 8 of the James 19.5 watt bulbs.

This area is over one of my workbenches. Pretty good light. Not really an improvement over the t12. Never complained about the t12's light as I found a nice white bulb years ago. Still have an area of 20' by 20' using the original 4 8' t12 fixtures I built the barn with. I'm thinking about replacing those as the ballasts are starting to fail. I think with the LED I can run three rows of two eight footers instead of the 2 rows of two that I have now.

I wish the light was more white than yellow though. Buddy stopped in yesterday and asked him what he thought. He liked my florescents better and he's pretty clueless when it comes to this stuff.

My flourescents are powered by the cheap ballasts that came in the light also. If I was to replace those with the 49455 ballast the light would crush the leds. Shop is running off a 100amp breaker and with all these lights I just need to drops some watts. Otherwise I wouldn't even mess with the led's until they have them dialed in.

A good ballast and a good bulb is tough to beat.

Brad, if you have the 8' tubes with the FA8 base (single pin end), with failing ballasts, you might want to consider these 8' LEDs. I have 4 on order to try.

I first considered this 8' LED, but they cost a little more and have a plastic housing, so they sag in the middle. The Greentek has an aluminum housing.
jp

 

[Platonic Solid]

Can we get a little more information on what happens with LED that make them less cost effective at 13.5'? And what is the exact height where this occurs?

I have a 36'x50'x13' shop and was hoping to use your recent "best bang for the buck LED bypass" recommendation.

Excellent question. Eventually I'll get around to making a chart or graph that can be used by everyone.

Meanwhile, for your specific situation:
60 2-lamp 4ft LED fixtures (thus 120 LED bulbs) mounted at 13ft = 88fc at 30" workplane.
Same Qty. of F32T8 normal ballast factor (0.88) fixtures = 93fc

90fc =
313,000 lm using open fluorescent strip lights
267,000 lm using James LED strip lights
234,000 lm using Fluorescent strip lights with reflectors

 

[Brad J.]

soj,

Did you order the frosted or clear? I like the 6000k option.

 

[soj]

soj,

Did you order the frosted or clear? I like the 6000k option.

I ordered frosted, 5000k. Both based on what I have absorbed from this thread.

They came in yesterday, I plan on installing them tomorrow.
jp

 

[INTMD8]

These were mentioned in the layout thread-

http://www.shineretrofits.com/us-en...light-fixture-with-low-profile-reflector.html

Do you know of anything I could get from a local Menards/Home Depot/Lowes that would be similar quality or will I need to replace the ballast on anything from those stores?

I planned on 16 of the above lights or similar for a 36x30 section of my shop.

 

[Platonic Solid]

INTMD8 - The US Energy Sciences fixture you linked to is the most cost effective low profile reflector I could find online. I turn to that fixture for the often difficult ~13ft ceiling height or for open ceilings. I don't know of any similar fixture that can be purchased off-the-shelf. What is your ceiling height and is it finished or open?

 

[OSULemon]

Apologies, I think I might have read a few hundred lighting threads by now, but I still haven't found a definite answer to this (or I forgot it):

Am I correct in assuming that with 8' ceilings, LED should not even be a consideration? I intend to follow the recommendations in the Layout thread and use SB232's with 5000k T8's, but I'd like to make sure I'm not leaving out any possibilities.

Note: My ceiling is unfinished and a rental house, but I'm working on options to accommodate that (foil covered foam board?).

 

[INTMD8]

INTMD8 - The US Energy Sciences fixture you linked to is the most cost effective low profile reflector I could find online. I turn to that fixture for the often difficult ~13ft ceiling height or for open ceilings. I don't know of any similar fixture that can be purchased off-the-shelf. What is your ceiling height and is it finished or open?

Yes it looks like a nice light!

I have vaulted ceilings in the area I want to use these. 15ft peak and 8ft at the side walls. All white, and white floor. 8ft between the trusses, I was going to surface mount them centered on the ceiling between the trusses, mounted end to end from peak to wall.

Thanks.

 

[Platonic Solid]

OSULemon - LED is fine for 8ft ceilings. The best buy known to-date on top of first post in this thread should work nicely for you. Only problem I see is that current stock is 2 lamps, which may mean it's time to source anther best buy LED option.

 

[Platonic Solid]

INTMD8 - That's a stunning space you have there. Very nice. Can I assume that the 8ft between the trusses means there's slightly less than 8ft of available fixture mounting space? I know you mentioned mounting fixtures vertically from wall to peak, but I just want to know what other options are viable. I wouldn't want the fixtures to detract from the aesthetic you've achieved. What's the dimension from bottom center of arch to floor?

 

[INTMD8]

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words! And yes, the truss spacing at 8ft makes it 95 inches at the ceiling so unfortunately not quite enough to mount an 8ft fixture horizontally.

Bottom of the arch to the floor is 11' 6".

 

[Platonic Solid]

Since the 18W James 2160lm lamp @ $10.99 is out of stock, I'm going to have to assume that James has resolved the low frequency pulse I experienced in my testing of the previous version of their universal ballast compatible/bypass lamp last year. The 19.5W rating only applies when used with a fluorescent ballast. When wired directly to line voltage the wattage is 18W, thus at 2250lm = 125 lumens per watt (which is excellent). See top of page 1 (linked)

 

[Brad J.]

I estimate I have about 120 hours with 19.5W James Bulb. No flicker yet but good thing for XM radio as my regular radio station goes to static as soon as I turn that bank of lights on.

I wasn't super impressed with lights when I started out but now I don't even notice. Thats a real test of whether the light is good or not. I was doing a ceiling stare comparison between the old and new. But working under them on the bench is fine. Just not my right color for paint work.

 

[smalltown]

Platonic I was reading the spec sheet on the Maxlite LED ready strip housing, and was wondering what are they referring to when they state "Self-Contained Relay, No Power Pack Needed" I was thinking that an LED housing like this only had the AC power wired directly to the end of the LED tubes.

 

[Heel2toe]

Looking for feedback on lighting for my garage and starting from scratch here so planning on buying the fixtures and bulbs, i.e not retrofitting ballasts or anything like that.

I see your current favorite fixture is the Maxlight LED ready housing in conjunction with the James 18W LED's.

This seems like a nice setup however I am unsure about the performance in my garage given the dimensions. My garage is a 32x24 however the left side bay has 12'6" ceiling height for 22' inward to accomadate a lift with the remaining 10' as well as the right side bay having a ceiling height of 9'2".

With the ceiling height that I have in my space is the Maxlight fixture going to be ok or am I better off looking at the US Energy Sciences fixture linked here? http://www.shineretrofits.com/us-en...light-fixture-with-low-profile-reflector.html

I've been doing a lot of research on this topic and hate to ask the dreaded question which is best for me but hoping you can add your .02 here as Im still quite unsure about the actual fixtures I want to use and how many would be recommended for my space.

Any further feedback you have would be much appreciated.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I estimate I have about 120 hours with 19.5W James Bulb. No flicker yet but good thing for XM radio as my regular radio station goes to static as soon as I turn that bank of lights on.

I wasn't super impressed with lights when I started out but now I don't even notice. Thats a real test of whether the light is good or not. I was doing a ceiling stare comparison between the old and new. But working under them on the bench is fine. Just not my right color for paint work.

Thanks for chiming in. The RFI issue is pretty standard with retrofit lamps and LED fixtures in general. I haven't found a commercially available retrofit lamp that doesn't kill regular radio.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Platonic I was reading the spec sheet on the Maxlite LED ready strip housing, and was wondering what are they referring to when they state "Self-Contained Relay, No Power Pack Needed" I was thinking that an LED housing like this only had the AC power wired directly to the end of the LED tubes.

Everything in the Maxlite LED housing spec sheet "HighLights" box is referring to the optional Occupancy Sensor.

 

[Heel2toe]

Hey Platonic any feedback on my scenario? I just got off the phone with an electrical supply house and was recommended T8 8' florescent fixtures (4x4' bulb per fixture) and 4 of these fixtures. The fixtures are $46 a pop and 16 bulbs at $5 each so $264 in total for the setup.

Now your Maxlight fixtures is $120 with shipping for 8 of them and the James bulbs for are another $192 shipped so were talking a difference of ~$60.

Im not as concerned about cost vs having ample light. And the main space I need the light is over the lift where the ceiling height is 12'6".

My electrician is wiring my garage next weekend so Im hoping to have my lighting sorted out prior. Do you have any recommendations or advice if you were in my position?

If there is any further information that I need to provide Im more than happy to do so. The inside is not drywalled yet, merely just studs and not sure it will be drywalled and painted white for a couple years. As for the type of work, nothing too specific or specialized just typical car projects engine suspension brakes etc. small engine repair as well as random carpentry jobs for stuff around the house.

Thanks in advance for your help; look forward to getting your feedback!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Heel2toe - The Maxlite + James LED isn't my "current favorite fixture", it's the best bang-for-the-buck I could find. My current favorite is the Lithonia ZL1N.
If I'm reading your post correctly, you have 2 connected spaces:
1. 22 x 24 x 12.5
2. 10 x 24 x 9

Space #1
Qty.4, 4-lamp 8ft F32T8 non-reflector strip lights yields 34fc @ 30" workplane
Qty.4, US Energy Sciences FSL-043208 4 Lamp T8 reflector strip lights yields 43fc ...

You would need Qty.9 of the US Energy Sciences FSL-043208 to yield 90fc (thus 36 bulbs)

You say your space is 24ft, which implies you could fit 3 8ft fixtures end to end with no space to spare. If the space is less than 24ft, end to end mounting obviously isn't an option.

Though the James LED lamp really isn't right for your ceiling height, here's an option:
Qty.20, James LED fixtures (4 fixtures end to end parallel to each of 4 walls set back 3ft and one strip of 4 fixtures end to end down the middle)
$38.50 ea. = $770
Yields 81fc
You can get 88fc with this setup if you drop the fixtures down to 11ft.

Best option for space #1:

Qty.12, 3 rows (spaced 8ft center to center) of 4 (spaced 6ft center to center)
Lithonia ZL1N L48 7000LM @ $154 ea. (linked) = $1848
Yields 90fc

You're on your own for Space #2

Note: All figures assume fully dry-walled space, thus 70-50-20 (ceiling-wall-floor) reflectance.

 

[Heel2toe]

I appreciate you getting back to me and I want to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving!

After rereading my posts a couple times I can see that the wording is a little poor so please allow me to try again here. For starters my overall space is a 32x24 which yields an ID of 30'8" x 22'4".

Now in order to accommodate a lift, on the left side there is a section where the ceiling height is 12'6". This section is 22' deep x 13' wide. This leaves a 10' x 13' section to the back wall as well the entire right side which would be about a 9x32 (internal dimensions are a little smaller just trying to dumb down the math a little) all of which has a 9'2" ceiling height.

I hope this description of the space is a little clearer now for you. Hopefully now you can better picture my unique space which leads into properly lighting up the place. I understand that the Maxlight and James LED isnt you favorite fixture, poor wording on my part again...but rather in terms of bang for the buck a solid candidate which is what Im going for. However in my research I've reach that with tall ceilings it seems LED's really arent cost effective at this point in time. However Im not sure a 12'6" ceiling height is considered "tall"

I'm not after the "ultimate" lighting solution budget out of the picture but rather a proper setup without breaking the bank. The section where the lift sits is my main focus here as that is where Ill be doing most of the work vs the rest of the garage that is more storage focused.

With all that being said, can you offer one more configuration taking all that into account hoping now you can better picture my space? I really appreciate your contributions to this forum and really hope I too can give back to the community as I become more of an active member of this forum. Thanks again for your help and happy holidays!

 

[Platonic Solid]

Heel2toe - I don't want this thread to turn into a layout thread. We already have one of those. Please post a dimensioned drawing in the layout thread or your own thread.

 

[ShadowRuleZ]

What do you think of these new 'V' LED lights which have the LED strips at an angle from each other?

 

[bedn0009]

All,

I've opted to go with "standard" light bulb sockets/lamp holders and over them I'm going to place these cages to protect the bulbs. Using 22 of these in a 28x32 shop I think I'll have sufficient light, improved overall appearance, better energy efficiency and a much lower cost of fixture.

I'd like to know if any of the experts have recommendation for either CFL or LED bulbs? I think I'd go 100 watt equivalent or better, but am unsure my options beyond that.

Thank you.

 

[Platonic Solid]

All,

I've opted to go with "standard" light bulb sockets/lamp holders and over them I'm going to place these cages to protect the bulbs. Using 22 of these in a 28x32 shop I think I'll have sufficient light, improved overall appearance, better energy efficiency and a much lower cost of fixture.

I'd like to know if any of the experts have recommendation for either CFL or LED bulbs? I think I'd go 100 watt equivalent or better, but am unsure my options beyond that.

Thank you.

Really!? The layout I made for you has a total luminaire luminous flux of 125,000 lm which yielded an average of 94 fc at workplane. Now you're talking about going to 22, 100W screwbase bulbs that will yield ~1600 lm ea x 22 = 35,200 lm = ~ 26 fc at workplane. You were also concerned about aesthetics and now you're willing to hang 22 cages? I don't get it. For the record, I disagree with your decision and this thread is not intended for screw base bulbs since it's not the recommended solution for any workshop.