CFL vs T8/T5 Tubes and Fixtures

[spam4us]

Just seems like it would be easier to install a light socket and then screw in the CFL rather than hanging a 4 ft. fixture.

Assuming a 14 ft ceiling

As far as brightness and color... Would 105 watt CFLs provide more lumens than a 2 tube 4 ft T8/T5 fixture?

Which would last longer the CFL or the tube?

Which would be better in cold climate winters (0 to 40 degrees)?

Thinking along the lines of what Veno did.

 

[tdkkart]

Which would be better in cold climate winters (0 to 40 degrees)?

This the the most important part of your question.
Do you want functional light at 40*, or is the space gonna be warmer when you're actually working??
Neither is worth a **** at 40* or lower.

They're expensive right now, but I think LED hold promise.
I've 8 4ft LEDs in a small space, so far I like them.

 

[brucer]

the new 4ft t8 flourescent light fixtures with electronic ballasts supposedly work down to zero now. at east thats what my cooper/metalux lights say on the box.

 

[Showkey]

Like this........?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38658&page=2

 

[laser3kw]

Neither is worth a **** at 40* or lower.

I have t8s. never had a problem as low as 0º - inside! The come on dim then are usually full bright with 5 minutes.

 

[ForceFed70]

A list of why T8's are a better choice:
- Better efficiency and light pattern.
- Better CRI and light quality.
- Much more reliable (CFL's typically fail a lot more frequently)
- Better operation in cold temperatures.
- Better lamp protection (typically you have a lens covering the lamps).

CFL's will work and aren't a bad choice - easier and cheaper initially. But with lamp replacements and the additional cost of electricity you're better off to go T8 in the long run. Not to mention the other benefits.

 

[dfiler2]

I have t8s. never had a problem as low as 0º - inside! The come on dim then are usually full bright with 5 minutes.

I agree, I too have T-8's and I keep the shop 40 when I'm not there, even at 40 the lights come on to full bright in about 5 min. CFL's in cold temps never reach full brightness, I'm basing that on CFL's installed in our porch, in the summer they are fine, in the winter no matter how long they are on they do not put out much light.

 

[spam4us]

Thanks to everyone for your help.

105W CFLs have about 7000 lumens: CRI of 80-85; Life 10,000 hrs. Cost averages $23.00

85W CFLs have about 5500 lumens with a CRI of 80-85; Life 10,000 hrs. Cost averages $19.00

Assumung 3 hrs per day averages a little over 9 years of life.

I know how long the T8s last (20,000 hrs) but how about the ballast? Would they have to be replaced more often than the bulbs?

I figure 5 105W CFL per 20 x 20 area (I have a 40 x 40 x 14 garage) or a total of 20 CFLs.

Would it not be easier and less expensive then installing T8 fixture and bulbs in the 40 x 40 x 14 area to get the same amount of lumens? or am I missing something?

thanks

 

[Off-Street Parking]

or am I missing something?

Yes... You're missing that there are qualities of lighting other than cost, lumens, and installation difficulty.

 

[ForceFed70]

or am I missing something?

thanks

If all you care about is initial purchase price, you've mostly got it covered. However, looking at the bigger picture I do think there are a few other items to consider:
- CFL's almost never achieve their 10,000hr rating. With a T8 fixture the lamps actually do get close to living out their full rating and the ballast will typically last for 2 or 3 lamp changes.
- You are completely ignoring efficiency and cost associated. 105W CFL makes 7000lumens, 3 x 32W (96W) T8 lamps provide 9000 lumens. T8 is over 40% more efficient!
- You are not considering effects of light pattern and losses as a result of not using a reflector.
- T8 fixtures handle temperature extremes better and come to full brightness sooner.

 

[Showkey]

Thanks to everyone for your help.

Would it not be easier and less expensive then installing T8 fixture and bulbs in the 40 x 40 x 14 area to get the same amount of lumens? or am I missing something?

thanks

Missing something ...YES

There are many solutions all with some compromises.......
Expecting your going to please everyone on the forum or get their approval.

My large CFL's on year 5 and counting ........

 

[jlckmj]

Would it not be easier and less expensive then installing T8 fixture and bulbs in the 40 x 40 x 14 area to get the same amount of lumens? or am I missing something?

Yes it would be easier, and less expensive than you originally thought. I forget what I paid because it has been so long, but it was not near the price you found.

You will never convince some people that they are a good or better alternative to florescent tubes. Mine have been on for three to four years now, and I have not replaced any of the 105's. I can tell you that I normally replaced 4-6 tubes a year in my old shop using them about the same amount of time.

NOW, if your shop is not going to be heated, I am not sure how they will work down below freezing temps. My shop is kept at 50-60 all winter.

Jim

 

[tonyx]

My installation is more modest(4x105 in a 3 car garage) and it's excellent. What's not mentioned is the lack of glare with the 105's. I know if there were equivalent LED with similar amount of lumens my eyes would not want to look above horizon line. CRI is great(105 were made for photo studio use) and every corner of the garage is evenly lit.

 

[yaidunno]

I expect the lighting in my garage to have as much character as any other aspect. While I can not argue that tubes will be marginally more efficient, and perhaps last a little longer, they are bland, tasteless, and offer no visual appeal. Fixtures that accept CFL's are nearly unlimited and can be selected to suit any style.

Qty. 24 85W 4100K CFLs in a 1700 sq. ft. building.

 

[dfiler2]

Wow, you win that argument hands down, very nice! IMO

 

[jlckmj]

yaidunno

Nice shop, great lighting set up! Those reflectors take the CFL's to the next level.

Jim

 

[ForceFed70]

I expect the lighting in my garage to have as much character as any other aspect. While I can not argue that tubes will be marginally more efficient, and perhaps last a little longer, they are bland, tasteless, and offer no visual appeal. Fixtures that accept CFL's are nearly unlimited and can be selected to suit any style.

Qty. 24 85W 4100K CFLs in a 1700 sq. ft. building.

Fully agree with you except the comment on efficiency. T8 should definitely be considered as much more efficient.

Everyone has different wants, needs, budgets, aesthetic requirements, and available time. My shop is for work and storage. There is no TV, there is 1 small stool that rarely gets used, there is no beer fridge, I do not entertain in there, etc. For me the decision was 100% about practicality.

 

[yaidunno]

Fully agree with you except the comment on efficiency. T8 should definitely be considered as much more efficient.

Everyone has different wants, needs, budgets, aesthetic requirements, and available time. My shop is for work and storage. There is no TV, there is 1 small stool that rarely gets used, there is no beer fridge, I do not entertain in there, etc. For me the decision was 100% about practicality.

In terms of lumens per watt, I’ve come up with about 88 lumens for each watt of power consumed for a T8 bulb. For comparison, the CFL’s I purchased put out 65 lumens per watt. It certainly is noteworthy, and for those looking at strictly getting the most light for the power consumed, tubes are without a doubt the way to go. Perhaps “marginally” was not the best word to use!

As you said though, it really all comes down to each person’s needs and wants for their lighting.

 

[JohnBlack]

In terms of lumens per watt, I’ve come up with about 88 lumens for each watt of power consumed for a T8 bulb. For comparison, the CFL’s I purchased put out 65 lumens per watt. It certainly is noteworthy, and for those looking at strictly getting the most light for the power consumed, tubes are without a doubt the way to go. Perhaps “marginally” was not the best word to use!

As you said though, it really all comes down to each person’s needs and wants for their lighting.

Based on my research lumens per watt is a measure of efficiency but not a very accurate way of determining the useful brightness of a light source. This is because lumens are measured as the overall output of a source. With incandescents, T8s, T12s, etc. this measurement includes light energy lost in all different directions, against the fixture, ceiling, basically all directions including where you are working. You can think of this in terms of automobiles where fuel mileage gives a good measure of efficiency but has nothing to do with the top speed of a car. Therefore when trying to determine useful brightness of a light source it is best to use an "apples to apples" approach. Measure lux or foot-candles at the point of work. This is one reason why LED lighting systems are so much more efficient. They are unidirectional so there is very little light lost "in the rafters." Although a lumens per watt approach will not make LEDs look very appealing, the fact remains that a 2100 lumen LED fixture will appear to be much brighter than a 2700 lumen T8 fixture simply because the light energy is better directed, even with good reflectors.

EDIT - I should also add in that color temp and rendering are also very important considerations.

 

[Showkey]

^^^ all good points.......

A smart phone light meter app can measure the amount of light reschung the work surface.

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Example on my table saw top I want 1000 LUX.

Example standard 2 bulb T8 fixture above a work bench yields 604Lx.

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Same location CFL with a stainless bowl reflector same distance same location yields 1461Lx

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Image of the bulb and reflector

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Two T8 and one CFL. Pic below. ( in this case 64 watts of T8, 40 watt CFL but the available LUX on the work surface is 60% different in favor of the CFL. The spread is also different but often the light on the work surface is the goal.

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