Another floor prep thread and TSP and degreaser questions.

[OFT]

I have some questionable mystery spots on my concrete garage floor. I have scrubbed and cleaned the floor with TSP, rinsed, re-rinsed and repeated. I have a scrubbed it with a degreaser (purple power) twice, but am uncertain of about some of the discoloration and a variety of various spots that still remain.

My intention is to apply an Epoxy-Coat floor.

I very much want to avoid having the floor bead blasted and/or diamond grinded.

My thought is to etch it with Muriatic Acid and then give it another go at removing some of the remaining spots.


My question is: Is it advisable or a particularly bad idea to go ahead and etch the floor and see if that will remove most, some or at least a few of the mystery spots? And, once the floor has been etched, make another attempt at degreasing and then etching again prior to laying down the Epoxy-Coat?

I’ve tried a search, but have been unable to find a solid recommendation on how to degrease using TSP. Any suggestions or recommendations are appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[SC-Eric]

I'm not sure what your mystery spots are but you should be asking this question to EpoxyCoat. At the end of the day you want to know if your prep procedure is going to be okay for the exact coating system you intend to supply.

I can tell you how to do it with our products. BUT... my answer won't get you any support from EpoxyCoat if you have issues. So, while many of us here have good knowledge... if EpoxyCoat doesn't like our answers all of the liability is going to fall on YOUR wallet.

My advice is simple... Always get your advice from the company that you buy your product from!

 

[Walter]

I'm not sure what your mystery spots are but you should be asking this question to EpoxyCoat. At the end of the day you want to know if your prep procedure is going to be okay for the exact coating system you intend to supply.

I can tell you how to do it with our products. BUT... my answer won't get you any support from EpoxyCoat if you have issues. So, while many of us here have good knowledge... if EpoxyCoat doesn't like our answers all of the liability is going to fall on YOUR wallet.

My advice is simple... Always get your advice from the company that you buy your product from!

I think he just told you to piss off because you're not using Wolverine products.

 

[Chris Adams]

I think he just told you to piss off because you're not using Wolverine products.

Not really. You do need to ask the vendor/maker on most things.

Asking for generic advice in a forum is cool, but only the 'approved' advice from the seller gets you a warranty.

I don't know enough to answer the OP's question as I am just thinking about coating my new shops floor, after it cures to that point.

I do find most the prices and work to be way too much for the end result, unless your garage is a show place.

 

[benjamming]

Hydrochloric acid is not a degreaser. I would suggest first trying just Dawn dish detergent & water or kitty litter tapped lightly with a hammer (hammer idea stolen from another forum) & set for a while. Isopropyl alcohol (IPA), brake fluid, or chlorinated brake cleaner (contains tetrachloroethylene - "perc") are other options. Perc is what dry cleaners typically use. You can try non-chlorinated brake cleaner if you want but its just xylene, etc type solvents. Of course, you will want to rinse thoroughly after these although IPA doesn't leave a residue it's still good shop practice.

 

[Walter]

Not really. You do need to ask the vendor/maker on most things.

Asking for generic advice in a forum is cool, but only the 'approved' advice from the seller gets you a warranty.

I don't know enough to answer the OP's question as I am just thinking about coating my new shops floor, after it cures to that point.

I do find most the prices and work to be way too much for the end result, unless your garage is a show place.

Of course one has to follow the approved directions. What miracle is one expecting to find in the warranty? They'll not send anyone over to make it better for him. If it peels, at best, he'll only get enough replacement epoxy to fill in the peeled area. Whoop-dee-doo!! That advice wasn't offered either.

OFT has a valid question. Certainly someone here has some good advice to offer.

 

[AlphaGarage]

I can suggest at least 3 different oil removing products from Wolverine Coatings, from a fairly inexpensive all purpose cleaner, to a more expensive live enzyme that digests petroleum products, which is kind of bizarre when you think about it.

Also TSP in real hot water is pretty effective.

With our instruction we note that generally if a bit of water is applied to an area it's absorbed, the you're good to coat.

You shouldn't need to remove every last stain and mark - heck that's one of the reasons I epoxied my floor to begin with - so I wouldn't need to look at all those stains and worry about removing them! Out of sight out of mind as they say...


But if it were me, I'd contact the distributor of the epoxy I'd be applying and get their take on the situation.

Chris - about your floor... With a new slab prep isn't really that big of a chore - neither is the actual application. If things time out well you could be done, top to bottom, in 2 days, although 3 is more likely.

Cost- or rather value - is a tough one to nail. I built some spec homes a few years ago, and if I remember correctly the garage cost per ft2 was about $25. Our system will run around $1.20 - $1.50 /ft2. Considering the benefits of a well coated and protected floor, ease of cleaning, great light reflection, substrate protection, and fantastic looks, and tossing in the fact that the floor is the part of the garage that you actually interact with the most, it's worth considering for the additional 5% - 7%. But then again - perceived value is pretty subjective.

 

[fireguy]

Easy off oven cleaner will remove some stuff. Make sure you have plenty of ventilation. Place some plastic film on the oven cleaner, that way it will not dry out too fast. Use a pressure washer (not a zero nozzle), stick with a 25 degree nozzle and keep at least 12 inches away from hte concrete.

 

[SC-Eric]

I think he just told you to piss off because you're not using Wolverine products.

Hardly... lol... I'm a guy... just like the rest of you. I have a wife, 2 boys, and a daughter.

It's easy to forget that companies are run by people. I know that it's difficult in these days to trust companies since I live in the same world that you do. I'm just like you and I get ticked off when a company doesn't have enough integrity to do the right thing. I hate getting bullied by the cable company. I think it is obscene that software companies can put out faulty software and it's OK. I'm ticked off that our Congress gets their own retirement plan instead of the Social Security plan that the rest of us will get... or not.

It's really easy to think the worst of people... and of companies. I am not the self-centered greedy person that is being suggested by this statement. And, Wolverine Coatings is about a lot more than just money. We are not exactly hurting for business as most companies are. Wolverine Coatings won't be getting any bailouts or handouts from the government. AND... even if it was offered we wouldn't take it because... well... it's just wrong! There is only one reason to accept money taken from other people to help yourself... GREED!

I've given this same advice (to ask the manufacturer) here many times and on a couple of occasions it turned out they WERE using Wolverine Coatings... lol... This is the only advice anyone should give. We don't know what the spots are... we don't have pics... and... we don't know the formulation of the product in question. Any advice other than 'asking the manufacturer' would be a guess at best.

Of course one has to follow the approved directions. What miracle is one expecting to find in the warranty? They'll not send anyone over to make it better for him. If it peels, at best, he'll only get enough replacement epoxy to fill in the peeled area. Whoop-dee-doo!! That advice wasn't offered either.

Your perspective may not be the same as others here. It may be that the value of the product to do a garage floor is insignificant to you. But, you have to consider that there are many people that are not wealthy on these boards. We've been around here long enough to know that for many people on these boards... well... money is tight. So, the fact that some yahoo advice costs them the value of product is significant to them.

My personal opinion is that there is plenty of business out there for EVERYONE! I'm sure that you didn't really mean to insult me. And, I'm not really coming down on you and I don't have any hard feelings. But, I hope you will consider that suggesting that anyone would tell someone to 'piss off' because they didn't buy product from them is the same as accusing them of being self-centered and greedy. I think that the customers on these boards who have dealt with us have made it pretty plain that we're not your average company. And, I'm not the kind of guy who loves money more than my integrity. We are all going to reap what we sow. There are still many companies in America that still believe that a good name is worth more than silver and gold.

* One clue is that the words 'Made in America' are on the product somewhere!