Vices: iron or steel ??

[jipps]

I'm looking at vintage, Sheffield-made, Record vices. Some models were available in either steel or (later as I understand it) pearlitic malleable iron.

From what I can see, each material will perform well for both (1) tensile strength; and (2) anvil area.

Am I right?

Any views as to which material I should prefer?

Thanks

 

[Packard V8]

Having worked in a foundry, steel castings cost several times as much as the same iron casting.

If the iron casting is properly designed, it should be strong enough for any individual shop use.

As to anvil area, vises aren't made to be used as anvils. Light work won't harm them, but a big enough idiot with a big enough hammer can break anything.

I've never personally seen a cast steel vise. I've seen several advertised incorrectly. Weasel-words such as "semi-steel" or "arma-steel" are used to denote the better iron alloys.

jack vines

 

[va.grouseman]

Jipps, you need to ask that question on The Vises of Garage Journal thread.---Plenty of members who collect Records on that thread.

 

[JZiggy]

I have a Record "34" vise (vice) in my shop. Looks to be 1960's due to design features. I can confirm that it is cast steel and not cast iron -- I overdrilled the mounting holes and the metal formed continuous chips rather than powder.

 

[va.grouseman]

Packard, the Columbian #804 is an all steel vise.---So is the Milhoff.

 

[jipps]

Thanks all

I have a Record "34" vise (vice) in my shop. Looks to be 1960's due to design features. I can confirm that it is cast steel and not cast iron -- I overdrilled the mounting holes and the metal formed continuous chips rather than powder.

JZiggy, that's really interesting for me... I know that the 34 was one of the models that changed from steel to pearlitic iron, and I had assumed that the change coincided exactly with the change from "Record STEEL" to just "Record" cast on the right hand side of the static jaw.

So now, I know less than ever!

Having said all that - how do you rate the 34?

 

[Packard V8]

I've never personally seen a cast steel vise.

Packard, the Columbian #804 is an all steel vise.

Yabbut IIRC, the 804 is a fabricated weldment, not a cast steel body.

And I certainly wouldn't say there are no cast steel vises, just I've never personally seen one.

jack vines

 

[KamiCrit]

Here is a vise that I believe is steel: http://shopgraytools.com/products/forged-combination-pipe-vises?variant=1056590748

 

[Packard V8]

That Gray appears to be a casting but the description says "forged". Would help if they gave more description.

jack vines

 

[va.grouseman]

Packard, you are correct sir.---The two I mentioned are welded ,and you did say cast.---Can't say as I have ever seen an entire cast steel vise.---Would be darn near indestructible.

 

[justanengineer]

JMO but it shouldnt matter so long as the material and casting quality are good. Most of the good ol 'merican vises were iron and used heavily for decades.

 

[Maui]

You want an all steel forged vise? Here it is:

http://www.heuer.de/en/vices/vice/

Maui

 

[Zeke]

You want an all steel forged vise? Here it is:

http://www.heuer.de/en/vices/vice/

Maui

Wow.

That is a tool to aspire to.

 

[tool_scrounge]

I also like the Dolex drop forged vises out of France, though I think the main body is still cast.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1852294

http://www.dolex.fr/en/clamping-tools/bench-vices/adjustable-bench-vices/type-50/

 

[Packard V8]

You want an all steel forged vise? Here it is:

http://www.heuer.de/en/vices/vice/ Maui

Very nice design for precision work but very small. Weighs what, 4.5kg = 10 pounds?

I also like the Dolex drop forged vises out of France, though I think the main body is still cast.

Their largest, the Type 88, weighs 45#, so that should be a useful size for general shop use.

Any idea as to the prices of the Huer and Dolex?

jack vines

 

[pozidriv]

The 180mm model weighs 30 kg

 

[JZiggy]

Thanks all



JZiggy, that's really interesting for me... I know that the 34 was one of the models that changed from steel to pearlitic iron, and I had assumed that the change coincided exactly with the change from "Record STEEL" to just "Record" cast on the right hand side of the static jaw.

So now, I know less than ever!

Having said all that - how do you rate the 34?

It's a great vise. The screw is quite big for the form factor (1" diameter) and it has a support in the back of the slide. I've been happy with it especially after getting some new jaw inserts made from a particular GJer

 

[tool_scrounge]

Very nice design for precision work but very small. Weighs what, 4.5kg = 10 pounds?



Their largest, the Type 88, weighs 45#, so that should be a useful size for general shop use.

Any idea as to the prices of the Huer and Dolex?

jack vines

Dolex pricing

http://www.walshengineering.com/shop/index.php?manufacturers_id=190

 

[Fretters]

Packard, you are correct sir.---The two I mentioned are welded ,and you did say cast.---Can't say as I have ever seen an entire cast steel vise.---Would be darn near indestructible.

Tough, yes, but indestructible, nope. They'll just tend to distort and bend before snap, if pushed too far. The steel vices usually don't have the weight of a cast vice as they are practically hollow. This is a cast steel:

It's a nice vice, (I'm just in the process of mounting it on the same bench as my Parkinson Handy), but personally I'd plump for an iron vice over a steel every time. Just personal preference mind. I mainly got that one as it's a less common Fortis design. That Fortis is only a fairly thin wall cast. I personally just like the weight and sturdiness of an iron vice. Whichever you go for though, iron or steel, abuse it enough and it will break.

 

[jipps]

Fretters, many thanks for that it's exactly the kind of information that I was looking for with my original question.

JZiggy, those jaws look awesome

 

[jipps]

I'm just in the process of mounting it on the same bench as my Parkinson Handy

Any pics of the Handy? I Googled Parkinson Handy, but it's showing me something else altogether

 

[dutchgray]

Here is a couple pics of my No1 (3") handy
View media item 53826View media item 53828Its the definite standard British vise IMO. Cast iron, Parkinson's Samsonia brand were their cast steel version of their perfect Vise, strong and well made but much lighter than the equivalent cast iron model.