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Pit Versus Hoist

omowright

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Freetown, Sierra Leone
Good morning

Please, can I be advised on the pros and cons of digging a pit as against installing a 2-post hoist? I want to start on the flooring of a new workshop.

Thanks in advance and good day ...
 
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General Geoff

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Good pit requires drainage and ventilation. Keep that in mind.

Also a lift (hoist) will give you some more versatility because it grabs the car by lift points that aren't the tires, thus making brake/suspension work easier.
 

racingtadpole

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As mentioned above, a pit being a hole in the ground collects gases and vapours and if properly designed should have forced ventilation/extraction. It should also have two means of access/egress and at any given time anything you park over it should not cover either. You will also need to waterproof it to prevent it filling with water that seeps through from the ground. The big killer if you are doing it properly is that all electrical fittings should be intrinsically safe, and you should not use regular power tools in it, pneumatic or IS power tools only. Having said that, there are plenty of pits around that dont have any of the above and havent killed anyone. The most important thing is turning over the air in the space so gases/vapours dont collect.
None of these issues exist with a 2 post hoist, and it will cost less to install
 
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omowright

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Thanks so much for these replies. I was scared by reports of unequal lifting and cars falling off the hoists. Now, I am more scared of pits. I will lay 6" of concrete for the hoists.

Thanks again
 

dlcwent

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omo, I've had a 2 post lift in my shop for 12 years and use it several times a day. I have never had a car fall off or even come close. Just remember that steel to steel is slippery, so if the rubber arm pads wear out, replace them. And your lift should also come with a book that shows you vehicle lift points, if you're not sure.
 

Squddle

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....also, with lifts, you can get at everything alot easier than the pits. I work in a pit to do oil changes and sometimes it's a pain to get to the filter unless the car rides along the rail. Or if there is a skid plate and one of the screws holding it in place is just outside the pit wall. Makes it kinda tough to access.
 

jakemac

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Go for the hoist.
If you're working drunk in the shop, you'll only bounce off the posts and land on your ****. But if you have a pit you'll fall in and crack your skull open.
:lol_hitti
 

RRmech

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We had both on the railroad.
The guy who designed our pits, must have been 5'2" tall?
We all much preferred the truck lifts.

Steve
 

APEowner

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If you want the ease of setup of a pit without the pitfalls (pardon the pun) then a 4 post may be the way to go. If you include a pair of trolley jacks then you can do pretty much everything that casual wrench would want to do. Cab lifts, FWD transmissions and pulling engines from pretty much anything is challenging, if not impossible on a 4 post but I prefer them for everything else.
 
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omowright

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I'm overwhelmed by the advices and extremely grateful. I have decided - I'd prefer to hit the post and fall on my **** and not into the pit ...

Thank you all.
 

colin39

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Lift, your so resticted with a pit ,beam jack you need to duck ro get around, if you pull a gearbox then you have to get around it to get to rhe clutch. Gggrrr change suspension components you jack it up on beam jack then get out after climbing under the jack then climb outta the.pit fix ya suspension on ya knees bent over the car on the floor ggggrrrr then straighten up get back in the pit let it of the jack climbing around it again ggggrrr

Give ya 3 guesses what i work in every day.

LIFT working at normal height you can move it up n down work around it under it over it and on it. Hell ive used one as an engine hoist, LIFT!!!!!!!!
 

zkling

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About the only place a pit is more useful is in a dedicated lube shop. Otherwise I'd rather have a good set of jack and stands or even better a hoist, over a pit.
 
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omowright

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Lift, your so resticted with a pit ,beam jack you need to duck ro get around, if you pull a gearbox then you have to get around it to get to rhe clutch. Gggrrr change suspension components you jack it up on beam jack then get out after climbing under the jack then climb outta the.pit fix ya suspension on ya knees bent over the car on the floor ggggrrrr then straighten up get back in the pit let it of the jack climbing around it again ggggrrr

Give ya 3 guesses what i work in every day.

LIFT working at normal height you can move it up n down work around it under it over it and on it. Hell ive used one as an engine hoist, LIFT!!!!!!!!
Wise words indeed. I consider theories from school as merely abstract stuff, but the wise sayings of the practically experienced are like gold. Actually, I joined here to learn a lot and fast. I can hardly evaluate what I've picked up today alone!!!

I continue to learn ...
 

rsanter

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To me a lift is better because you are more free to move around while working on the car.
If you are concerned about the forces on the car while wrenching or the balancing of the car then get a 4 post lift as you are then equal to the pit and you will just use jacks to lift the vehicles off the suspension when needed

Bob
 

justanengineer

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There's plenty of old wives tales spread in this thread already, so please ignore any/all of the comments about gases and falling into pits or about their legality, those are a result of cheap shop owners and shade-trees doing **** work illegally. At shops I've worked in we've had OSHA come through weekly and never needed an exhaust system in the pits nor had them fill with gases or liquids of any kind. Like everything else in/under a vehicle you want at least one floor drain and preferably explosion proof lighting (otherwise beware of leaks dripping onto hot bulbs). Structural pit covers were always used and recessed into a notch in the floor, you could quickly/easily walk or drive over or on them without falling in. Working in them wasnt terrible IMHO, I'm 6'4 and never saw them as any worse than a 4 post without a bridge lift, like anything else some are shorter/taller but unlike a commercial lift you can build a DIY pit to fit you. Unlike a lift, there is no stooping down or dinking around adjusting lift arms or pads, you drive in, pull the pit covers, and begin work quickly. If you ever work on an extremely lowered vehicle, there's also no worries about getting lift arms underneath the bodywork. One shop I worked in had a bridge lift in each pit, another simply had a mid-rise 2-post lift straddling each - best of both worlds IMHO for repair work. JMO, but my favorite use for a pit is welding, you can brace yourself off the pit to get steady, consistent welds pretty easily while working overhead.
 
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wafrederick

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The pads for the Mohawk hoists don't have rubber on them,welded in steel spikes.Biggest thing with a hoist is make sure you can walk under the hoist arms without running into them.My dad bought a new Mohawk for this reason,can walk under the arms when a car is lifted up on the hoist.OSHA,shop owners can legally kick them out if the shop has a few number of employees.Only way OSHA can come in this situation is with a warrant.I have heard of shops kicking out OSHA and get away with it
 

finn

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2 additional points: A pit has no resale value if (when) you no longer have use for it.

You can't take a pit with you when you move.
 

AJO

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Dec 24, 2013
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Have had a pit in home shop for 20 years. No issues. Simple exhaust fan ventilation and sump pump for drainage. Deep enough to stand straight under car and use small 2 step ladder for trucks.Air and electrical installed under floor to inner wall and florescent light formed into wall, hardwood planks for cover. You adapt to what you have and what you need( be creative). No problem with insurance company or building inspector. New shop has 2 post and going to add 40 foot pit.IMHO It's more likely to have trip over 2 ton floor jack than fall in pit.
 
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omowright

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There's plenty of old wives tales spread in this thread already, so please ignore any/all of the comments about gases and falling into pits or about their legality, those are a result of cheap shop owners and shade-trees doing **** work illegally. At shops I've worked in we've had OSHA come through weekly and never needed an exhaust system in the pits nor had them fill with gases or liquids of any kind. Like everything else in/under a vehicle you want at least one floor drain and preferably explosion proof lighting (otherwise beware of leaks dripping onto hot bulbs). Structural pit covers were always used and recessed into a notch in the floor, you could quickly/easily walk or drive over or on them without falling in. Working in them wasnt terrible IMHO, I'm 6'4 and never saw them as any worse than a 4 post without a bridge lift, like anything else some are shorter/taller but unlike a commercial lift you can build a DIY pit to fit you. Unlike a lift, there is no stooping down or dinking around adjusting lift arms or pads, you drive in, pull the pit covers, and begin work quickly. If you ever work on an extremely lowered vehicle, there's also no worries about getting lift arms underneath the bodywork. One shop I worked in had a bridge lift in each pit, another simply had a mid-rise 2-post lift straddling each - best of both worlds IMHO for repair work. JMO, but my favorite use for a pit is welding, you can brace yourself off the pit to get steady, consistent welds pretty easily while working overhead.
Wow!!! I have to start thinking again. This is my best reply so far, thanks so much.

Personally, in practical work, have you ever used Laplace Transforms? This is a joke anyway ...
 
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omowright

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Freetown, Sierra Leone
omo, I've had a 2 post lift in my shop for 12 years and use it several times a day. I have never had a car fall off or even come close. Just remember that steel to steel is slippery, so if the rubber arm pads wear out, replace them. And your lift should also come with a book that shows you vehicle lift points, if you're not sure.
Good morning dlcwent. Please, what is the make of your lifts?
 

dlcwent

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good morning omowright. I have a AMMCO 2 post and also a ATLAS 4 post alignment lift. I have had the 2 post in use since 2004.
 

DekeT

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USA
There's plenty of old wives tales spread in this thread already, so please ignore any/all of the comments about gases and falling into pits or about their legality, those are a result of cheap shop owners and shade-trees doing **** work illegally. At shops I've worked in we've had OSHA come through weekly and never needed an exhaust system in the pits nor had them fill with gases or liquids of any kind. Like everything else in/under a vehicle you want at least one floor drain and preferably explosion proof lighting (otherwise beware of leaks dripping onto hot bulbs). Structural pit covers were always used and recessed into a notch in the floor, you could quickly/easily walk or drive over or on them without falling in. Working in them wasnt terrible IMHO, I'm 6'4 and never saw them as any worse than a 4 post without a bridge lift, like anything else some are shorter/taller but unlike a commercial lift you can build a DIY pit to fit you. Unlike a lift, there is no stooping down or dinking around adjusting lift arms or pads, you drive in, pull the pit covers, and begin work quickly. If you ever work on an extremely lowered vehicle, there's also no worries about getting lift arms underneath the bodywork. One shop I worked in had a bridge lift in each pit, another simply had a mid-rise 2-post lift straddling each - best of both worlds IMHO for repair work. JMO, but my favorite use for a pit is welding, you can brace yourself off the pit to get steady, consistent welds pretty easily while working overhead.

The guy is already convinced a pit is not for him. Do you really think the average guy is going to maintain the OSHA watchdog mentality in his home shop. Did you have children and pets in your high end shop?
 

Stuart in MN

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Garage pits for commercial garages are covered in the National Electric Code (NEC) in Article 511. There are other sections of the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) codes that apply; Section 88B, Section 30A, and probably some others I don't recall offhand.

In any case, the pit is considered a Class 1, Division 2 area if it has mechanical ventilation of 6 air changes per hour, and is a Class 1, Division 1 area if it's not ventilated. Either way it means explosion proof electrical equipment is required, but the level of protection required depends on the classification.

Note that this is only for commercial garages in the USA, I can't comment on the rules and regulations in other countries. Also, I've looked and looked and haven't been able to find anything in the code books that talks about garage pits for personal or home use. For them, it will probably come down to what the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction, i.e. the local building inspector) says you can or cannot do.
 

shadow images

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If you want the ease of setup of a pit without the pitfalls (pardon the pun) then a 4 post may be the way to go. If you include a pair of trolley jacks then you can do pretty much everything that casual wrench would want to do. Cab lifts, FWD transmissions and pulling engines from pretty much anything is challenging, if not impossible on a 4 post but I prefer them for everything else.

The pulling engines part I will disagree with. I have pulled 100's of engines on a 4post with ease.
 

ibedayank

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There's plenty of old wives tales spread in this thread already, so please ignore any/all of the comments about gases and falling into pits or about their legality, those are a result of cheap shop owners and shade-trees doing **** work illegally. At shops I've worked in we've had OSHA come through weekly and never needed an exhaust system in the pits nor had them fill with gases or liquids of any kind. Like everything else in/under a vehicle you want at least one floor drain and preferably explosion proof lighting (otherwise beware of leaks dripping onto hot bulbs). Structural pit covers were always used and recessed into a notch in the floor, you could quickly/easily walk or drive over or on them without falling in. Working in them wasnt terrible IMHO, I'm 6'4 and never saw them as any worse than a 4 post without a bridge lift, like anything else some are shorter/taller but unlike a commercial lift you can build a DIY pit to fit you. Unlike a lift, there is no stooping down or dinking around adjusting lift arms or pads, you drive in, pull the pit covers, and begin work quickly. If you ever work on an extremely lowered vehicle, there's also no worries about getting lift arms underneath the bodywork. One shop I worked in had a bridge lift in each pit, another simply had a mid-rise 2-post lift straddling each - best of both worlds IMHO for repair work. JMO, but my favorite use for a pit is welding, you can brace yourself off the pit to get steady, consistent welds pretty easily while working overhead.



yep wives tales... SURE!!!!




as far as things falling off a 2 or single post lifts... whay you raise to barely lift wheels off ground and make sure it's solidly on the lift before lifing to working height and esafety locks... common sense here People
 

APEowner

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The pulling engines part I will disagree with. I have pulled 100's of engines on a 4post with ease.

Yeah, I was attempting to word my post to indicate that you can do it but that it might require a different approach than with a two post or just doing it on jack stands.

What do you use for an engine hoist? When I've pulled engines on a four post I've found that if the lift is up high enough to get the engine hoist legs under it that it's just barely low enough to clear the car with the engine.
 

greyjasper51

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european cars are nigh on impossible to drop an engine or box in a pit now, alot are front subframe down and whilst can be done on a 4 poster im sure alot of us buy tools to make our lifes easier, in my honest opinion a 2 poster is the way forward but has its drawbacks, just less than other options
 

justanengineer

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Personally, in practical work, have you ever used Laplace Transforms? This is a joke anyway ...

:p Good one. I'm a mechanical design guy so I can't claim to use them daily, most of that's solid modeling/FEA/CFD with some fairly easy engineering involved. Like many tho, if I do a calc/task more than twice I'm writing a spreadsheet or macro to simplify future work and occasionally do use them for this.

The guy is already convinced a pit is not for him. Do you really think the average guy is going to maintain the OSHA watchdog mentality in his home shop. Did you have children and pets in your high end shop?

Convinced by bad info maybe. OSHA watchdog mentality? :spit: Me? Now thats just hilarious, almost as much as suggesting most commercial shops are "high end" here on GJ amongst so many hobbyists' garage mahals. Seriously, I became rather familiar with OSHA working in a 50+ mechanic 24/7 fleet shop they were in regularly, never bc of anything I reported nor did. Yes, pits got a bad rep by cheap, lazy MORONS and growing up in a poor town I've seen more than my share of them without covers and/or with only a piece of plywood tossed over them, nvm the lazy and/or incompetent morons like shown in ibedayank's videos. If youve got those folks or that mentality in a shop tho you're guaranteed bigger issues than the pit. Properly used with structural covers (aka <$500 worth of floor grates) capable of supporting a vehicle, a decent pit is safer, faster, and depending on the job - easier than a lift. Used improperly, **** happens with a pit the same as occasionally happens when a lift is used properly.

FWIW, I grew up in a big family with pets and never had issues. My father's shop (business) was on our property and has had pits for ~40 years. As kids we used them without supervision since the later single digit years, about the same time we were given free access (aka chores) with tractors, construction equipment, and firearms. OSHA watchdog? Maybe bc I wear my safety glasses and dont act like a retard in the shop...
 

ruffryder

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easier if you know a pig farmer... just bash out their teeth for the sake of the piggies digestion... you dont wanna go sifting through pig s&*t now do ya

You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, "as greedy as a pig".

Love the movie... lol
 
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