Advice requested regarding heater/boiler unit for home radiator system
- Thread starter NC-Shaun
- Start date
Good to read you got it worked out with some effort and dedicated labor. As we have all learned, when something just doesn't make sense... question it.
(like your tech telling you to toss the furnace). Keep vigilant on the CO tests until your 100 % comfortable with the readings on an average. (get the furnace cycling for longer durations) Good job
Thanks Guys,
The temp has dropped in my area and the furnace is running quite frequently now. The pump has become almost as silent as I remembered it to be. I just did a Carbon Monoxide test and its burning extremely clean. I am seeing readings of 1 or 2 PPM in the basement after its closed up and the furnace has been cycling all day.
I had to turn the thermostat down to 73f as it is keeping the house quite cozy.
I appreciate all of the help and encouragement.
Today I was removing an old freezer from the basement and found a bunch of paper work.
So, I started to look thru the papers and found all of the service history and parts purchases for this heating system.
It looks like the boiler unit was bought in 09/2000 for about $3000
In 2008 it looks like a total tune up was done. The Bell and Gossett circulation motor was bought new and installed, at this time a new Bell and Gossett steel impeller, bearing, and seal kit was installed. A new digital thermostat was installed, a new thermocoupler, a new draft motor installed, and a new control box ( the part that has all of the wiring connections for the t stat,igniter,etc)
It was nice to find the history of this system.
So, I started to look thru the papers and found all of the service history and parts purchases for this heating system.
It looks like the boiler unit was bought in 09/2000 for about $3000
In 2008 it looks like a total tune up was done. The Bell and Gossett circulation motor was bought new and installed, at this time a new Bell and Gossett steel impeller, bearing, and seal kit was installed. A new digital thermostat was installed, a new thermocoupler, a new draft motor installed, and a new control box ( the part that has all of the wiring connections for the t stat,igniter,etc)
It was nice to find the history of this system.
Pics of the circulation pump.
Bumping this thread because i need some more advice.
I came home from my first week at my new job, and discovered the flange gasket dripping my heater water in the basement floor. I probably lost about 20 oz of water while I was out at work today.
I assume that if I unbolt this pump at the flange, The impeller stays with the pump just like an automotive application?
I realize I will have to drain the system to replace this gasket.
There is also a incoming water line that has a gate valve on it so I can refill the system after it is dry.
Is this a standard gasket readily available at home supply houses like Lowes or Home Depot? Any tips on doing this job would be greatly appreciated, as always
It looks like I am due to replace the bearing/impeller housing anyway. Which will cover all of the problems I had. (considering this part was seized when I first started this process and I freed it up) I knew it was gonna be short lived after that.
I did however go ahead and do some things that needed done, prior to ordering these new parts.
I did however go ahead and do some things that needed done, prior to ordering these new parts.
I have discovered something odd, I am hoping one of you can shed some light on this for me. This system is setup with an incoming supply line and shutoff valve to allow for refilling the system. The shutoff valve was old, so i took the opportunity to replace that with a new quarter turn style valve, since I had the system dry replacing the pop off valve anyway.
My question is, why is there a pop off valve on my supply line after the shutoff valve and before the unit? Here it is pictured, i am pointing at it and showing you the new shutoff valve I installed yesterday. Incoming water line pressure is only 42lbs when the supply line shutoff valve is open anyway. Even if someone left the supply line valve open by accident, the 30lb Bell and Gossett pop off valve would pop off and let the extra water out there.
Close up of pop off valve in question. I am asking because the next time I have the system dry to replace the circulation pump bearing,impeller,flange gaskets, and coupler I want to REMOVE this pop off valve. I can see no reason why I need a pop off in between the supply line shut off valve and system since I already have a 30lb Bell and Gossett pop off valve on the boiler unit, and once the system is full and bled the supply line is rendered dormant when the valve is shutoff once the system is full.
My question is, why is there a pop off valve on my supply line after the shutoff valve and before the unit? Here it is pictured, i am pointing at it and showing you the new shutoff valve I installed yesterday. Incoming water line pressure is only 42lbs when the supply line shutoff valve is open anyway. Even if someone left the supply line valve open by accident, the 30lb Bell and Gossett pop off valve would pop off and let the extra water out there.
Close up of pop off valve in question. I am asking because the next time I have the system dry to replace the circulation pump bearing,impeller,flange gaskets, and coupler I want to REMOVE this pop off valve. I can see no reason why I need a pop off in between the supply line shut off valve and system since I already have a 30lb Bell and Gossett pop off valve on the boiler unit, and once the system is full and bled the supply line is rendered dormant when the valve is shutoff once the system is full.
Last edited:
Bondo
Well-known member
Ayuh,.... I'll try,.... Toss that whole pump, 'n replace it with a cartridge pump like a Grondsfo(sp) 3 speed, or taco 007,...
It'll come with new gaskets,...
While yer at it, replace the flanges with These,...
No drainin' next time the pump needs service,...
That's the pressure reducin' valve that limits the system pressure to 'bout 12 psi goin' into it,....
Yer's just happens to be a combination valve, with the pop-off, most don't,...
More than one pop-off valve won't hurt a thing,...
My system has 3 in it,...
One on the original oil boiler, 'n I put 2 on my homemade outdoor wood boiler,....
None open before 30 psi, 'n both will open within' a psi or so of each other,...
Interesting, at first I thought it was a combo backflow/fill valve but from what I can find it's a combo fill/pressure relief, never seen one before. If the fill portion is functioning properly you should be able to leave your incoming water supply valve open and the system should fill to around 12-14 psi cold. If it's not functioning properly then I would replace it with a new fill valve(also known as a pressure reducing valve) and I would add a dual check back flow as well if there isn't one already.
I would consider replacing the entire circulator with a sealed style(taco 007 or similar depending on what you have now) before putting much money into the old style b&g. If you keep what you have replace the pump coupler while you have it apart, they tend to fail when you least expect it.
I would consider replacing the entire circulator with a sealed style(taco 007 or similar depending on what you have now) before putting much money into the old style b&g. If you keep what you have replace the pump coupler while you have it apart, they tend to fail when you least expect it.
If I can get threaded flanges with shutoff valves in them that would be great. I dont wanna change the spacing on the flanges, so if I can get the proper threaded flange with shutoff valve that will allow me to just unthread the old flanges and reinstall the new ones along with a Taco 007 pump I would be ok with that. The link you gave me points me to a large variety of flanges, could you look at this pic and direct me to the particular flange you would select?
As far as the pump goes, it seems people either love or hate the B&G Series 100 pump I have. They either say Taco 007 all the way or the keep the B&G and the Taco is junk .Me I dunno, the Taco 007 sure looks more modernized and streamlined, whereas just looking at the B&G series 100 it looks antiquated.
This system has always been ran with the shutoff valve closed once filled and set to the proper pressure 12-15 PSI and ONLY opened to add water to get pressure up if needed.
If I kept with this method, is there any reason I should NOT remove it altogether? I am sure its an old piece and is probably not functioning correctly now. I dunno how I would test it ,nor would I want to risk having the basement floor flooded if I left the supply line opened as there is no drain close by.
If I do keep the B&G Series 100 in place I plan on a new bearing housing assembly, and coupler assembly along with fresh gaskets for the volute housing. (listen to me talkin like I know what I am doin
) As always, I greatly appreciate your time spent to reply, and knowledge provided. You all have been helping me get thru a hard time.
gregtwojeeps
Well-known member
As you know.... the distance between the TACO and B&G flanges will be different. Every time at work I made a Taco/B&G pump change out that is what I found out at least.
Just get your TACO pump in if you choose to buy one, then take measurements and see what size ****** lengths you will need ....to close in or open up...the existing flange to flange distance, to make the TACO flanges fit....BEFORE you take the BG off line and disconnect it . Good luck JMO
Just get your TACO pump in if you choose to buy one, then take measurements and see what size ****** lengths you will need ....to close in or open up...the existing flange to flange distance, to make the TACO flanges fit....BEFORE you take the BG off line and disconnect it . Good luck
JMOBondo
Well-known member
Nope,.... 'fraid I can't,.... Yer there, ya gotta measure, 'n see what'll fit,....
Lotsa diameters, options, 'n lengths,....
As you know.... the distance between the TACO and B&G flanges will be different. Every time at work I made a Taco/B&G pump change out that is what I found out at least.
Just get your TACO pump in if you choose to buy one, then take measurements and see what size ****** lengths you will need ....to close in or open up...the existing flange to flange distance, to make the TACO flanges fit....BEFORE you take the BG off line and disconnect it . Good luck
Thanks guys, I think I am gonna rebuild the B&G pump as we have been happy with the performance of it and the motor/mount/cradle was replaced 7 years ago. This pump style has been on this home for the last 40 years so it seems to be well suited for the job
The cost is about $150 for parts either way and rebuilding the current pump makes it easier on me and should avoid additional fitment hassle.
I do believe I would like to eliminate that extra pop off valve on the incoming water supply line, just to rid the system of any old failure points as I am sure that is the same piece that has been on the system since wayyyyy before 2000 when this new boiler was installed.
Would removing this be OK?
gregtwojeeps
Well-known member
Good move on keeping the B&G, they are a standard out here in the boiler heating industry for as long as I have been around.... I am no tech either.
As to your wanting to get rid of the blue text valve...... Someone correct me if I am wrong ....but I think that is a old pressure regulating valve. It basically keeps the incoming water pressure stable for the boiler.
Yes, that is the general concensus. However I do not currently nor has this system ever been ran with the water supply left on.
I replaced the old screw type shutoff valve with a new quarter turn shutoff valve on the incoming water supply line. This system has NEVER been ran with the incoming water supply open continuous. I fill the system, then shut the water supply off. That is how this system has always been operated.
This is why I dont understand why this pop off valve was ever in place on this system. Maybe it was from the previous boiler unit before this one was installed? It just seems obsolete since there is NO water pressure on that line once I shut the valve, and no need for a check valve either as the shutoff covers that as well.
I will order the B&G parts sometime this week before work.
gregtwojeeps
Well-known member
I went back to the pics and I saw an old expansion tank suspended from the floor joists. That may help explain why you have a pressure regulating valve in your city supply water line to the boiler. They put PRV's in to help stabilize the city water pressure in a set range of pressure to the expansion tanks .....of which probably as you say, was for an old boiler now removed.....
I am NOT a boiler/heating tech, but I would say if you are confident in adding water by hand, do so. Just remember that if you leave town for a week in the heating season, someone needs to check on the boiler water. If that is not possible, then a boiler service company would be a good thing maybe, to get them inspect your system and get an automatic feed water system installed. JMO and Good luck
I am NOT a boiler/heating tech, but I would say if you are confident in adding water by hand, do so. Just remember that if you leave town for a week in the heating season, someone needs to check on the boiler water. If that is not possible, then a boiler service company would be a good thing maybe, to get them inspect your system and get an automatic feed water system installed. JMO and Good luck
I went back to the pics and I saw an old expansion tank suspended from the floor joists. That may help explain why you have a pressure regulating valve in your city supply water line to the boiler. They put PRV's in to help stabilize the city water pressure in a set range of pressure to the expansion tanks .....of which probably as you say, was for an old boiler now removed.....
I am NOT a boiler/heating tech, but I would say if you are confident in adding water by hand, do so. Just remember that if you leave town for a week in the heating season, someone needs to check on the boiler water. If that is not possible, then a boiler service company would be a good thing maybe, to get them inspect your system and get an automatic feed water system installed. JMO and Good luck
The expansion tank is still in place and functional. If the pressure ever gets too high (above 20lbs) I drain water off at the expansion tank drain valve. I was always told to keep it around 12-15lbs during the day, at night when the boiler runs more frequently the daytime pressure of 12-15lbs goes up to 17-19 lbs.
The pressure doesnt seem to go low very often once the system is full and bled good. The fact that the circulation pump is weeping now will cause pressure to drop I am sure. I will fix that soon.
Update 12/31/15
I finally found a local supply house that had the B&G 189105 Bearing assembly in stock. The part number had been updated to 189105LF (Meaning Lead Free)
I decided to leave the combination pressure reducer/popoff valve in place for the time being as I had other things going on at the time.I drained the entire system, replaced the bearing assembly, coupler, and volute housing gasket. I have decided that a all in one unit will be the next replacement pump, with flange shutoff valves.
It took a few hours from start to finish, and one additional bleed a few days after the initial fill up. Eventually (during the warm season) I will drain and remove the combination pressure reducer/pop off valve. I also plan on replumbing all of the black iron gas lines and shutoff valves in the house with Pro Flex line.
The plan with the install of the Pro Flex line will be have everything installed, terminated where the appliance requires, shutoff valves in place. Then transfer the incoming gas line over to the Pro Flex system, doing the pressure checks, once that is satisfactory start connecting appliances with the lines that are already setup. I just found too many gas shutoffs that were green and unnecessary anyway (redundant)
I finally found a local supply house that had the B&G 189105 Bearing assembly in stock. The part number had been updated to 189105LF (Meaning Lead Free)
I decided to leave the combination pressure reducer/popoff valve in place for the time being as I had other things going on at the time.I drained the entire system, replaced the bearing assembly, coupler, and volute housing gasket. I have decided that a all in one unit will be the next replacement pump, with flange shutoff valves.
It took a few hours from start to finish, and one additional bleed a few days after the initial fill up. Eventually (during the warm season) I will drain and remove the combination pressure reducer/pop off valve. I also plan on replumbing all of the black iron gas lines and shutoff valves in the house with Pro Flex line.
The plan with the install of the Pro Flex line will be have everything installed, terminated where the appliance requires, shutoff valves in place. Then transfer the incoming gas line over to the Pro Flex system, doing the pressure checks, once that is satisfactory start connecting appliances with the lines that are already setup. I just found too many gas shutoffs that were green and unnecessary anyway (redundant)
A special Thank You goes out to all of you that have helped me so far. Your help never goes unappreciated. I dont have anybody to help me, since I have always been a loner. I can only say, that without your help, and direction, I would never be able to accomplish these tasks.
Thank You Thank You Thank You
Thank You Thank You Thank You
dfiler2
Well-known member
Glad to know you got it all up and working.
75gmck25
Well-known member
A comment on the pop-off valve -
My boiler has a similar combination fill/safety valve, and when you pull up the lever on top it is in fast-fill mode. However, the catch is that when it finally fills up and fully pressurizes, the pop-off valve activates and you start dumping water out the copper tube going down. Its really surprising how much water dumps out that tube before you realize the boiler is full and you need to take it out of fast-fill mode.
Bruce
My boiler has a similar combination fill/safety valve, and when you pull up the lever on top it is in fast-fill mode. However, the catch is that when it finally fills up and fully pressurizes, the pop-off valve activates and you start dumping water out the copper tube going down. Its really surprising how much water dumps out that tube before you realize the boiler is full and you need to take it out of fast-fill mode.
Bruce
Thanks Bruce, It did seem to take forever to fill the system. I didnt realize I should have pulled that lever up during refill. Next time I drain the system, that setup is going away anyways. My house has terrible water pressure and volume ( a city water line feed issue I plan on addressing once I round up all of the neighbors and head to the next city meeting) so I thought thats why my system took forever to fill.
