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garage motion sensor light replacement problem

jaw444

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I had a motion triggered light in my garage installed in around late 2007, early 2008. It has worked fine all these years until about a week ago at which time it stopped turning off, it just stayed on all the time, so i had to just use the manual switch.

I had an electrician replace it, along with some other small jobs, last week.

My old motion sensor unit was made by STONCO in Union NJ (made in China), and i think that company was owned by Philips who closed it in 2011 according to a google search. The model no. was MD-501.

The electrician installed a new unit which was a Home Depot brand. The brand is Defiant Model DF-5716-BK-A. It looks similar in size and design to the previous one. Both were wired to the light bulb which is overhead in the garage.

I discussed what i want with the electrician which is that i want the light to come on when i enter the garage through the walk through door and when i drive into the garage through the car entry door. These doors are on opposite walls and the previous sensor was pointed at the walk through door, or that general area. It was able to sense the car every time the front of the car got even with the sensor.

The new sensor usually works well when i walk through the door but when i drive into the garage, the light does not turn on. I tried repositioning the direction of the sensor and it didn't make any difference. Then i noticed that every time i drove in and the car reached the area even with the sensor unit, the red light on the unit would flash, that is the light that indicates that the motion detector does detect motion. So, it's telling me that it detects the car but the light doesn't go on.

Usually when i come through the walk through door, the light comes on, but then, other times, it doesn't come on at all, though the red light flashes as if to say it detects my motion. Today, i walked into the garage and the light came right on. I backed the car out of the garage and went to the store. i came back and drove into the garage. The light was off and it stayed off even though i walked right past the sensor. i tried going in and out of the door, and when i would walk in front of the sensor the red light would flash but the light would not turn on.

I don't know anything about these things. I would like to find out if there is something i'm not doing right in operating this new device, or does it sound like it's defective?

I texted the electrician and he suggested i try turning the sensitivity up to maximum, but it was already on maximum. I called Home Depot and the representative consulted with the technical department and they told her to tell me that the motion detector only detects human body heat, it does not detect cars. I did not get an explanation of why the red light comes on to tell me it detects motion when the car is in range of it, yet the light doesn't go on.

anyway, my previous motion detector never failed to turn the light on, whether when i walked into the garage or when i drove into it, and i want one that works like that.

I would like to know if anyone knows how i would find a unit that is guaranteed to do this. After i adjusted the sensitivity to maximum, i texted the electrician back to tell him it was already at maximum and still not working with the car. That was about 3 days ago and i haven't heard back from him. I'm going to contact him again but was hoping to have information about where a unit that does detect cars can be found so that i can tell him where to get one, or get it myself for him to install, but when i google it or search on Amazon, i don't know what search terms to use. The ones i have used don't bring up anything that mentions motion lights for garages that detect the movement of cars.

Thanks
 
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Kaizen

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welcome to the Garage. last I checked hd didn't sell government level heat sensing lights. it senses movement. why yours isn't going on doesn't make sense. if you walk in the car way I'm guessing it doesn't go on? is the light still set on test mode? try turning the sensitivity half way.
last option is its broke and take it back for another. I'm hoping this isn't a 9.99 light? and this time you need to do it yourself. No calling an electrician for a simple replacement.
 

csp

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The Defiant brand motion sensors are of questionable quality. I'm on my third in two years (2 year warranty) and every one of them gets to the point where they will come on and won't shut off.

Have you considered a motion detector built into the switch rather than at the light fixture?

Motion-Sensor-Light-Switch2.jpg


Motion is motion, it doesn't matter what it comes from. That's BS you were fed about them not being able to detect anything but body heat.
 

Git

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What light is it controlling - a ceiling mounted light bulb in the center of your garage?

You may just want to try something like this. It is a LED light bulb with the a motion sensor built in. I have a couple and they work really well. Cost was $18 from Amazon. If it doesn't work - just send it back

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LBPFUF8/?tag=atomicindus08-20
 

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marty_p

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Welcome to TGJ, where you will learn plenty! :thumbup:

I am with csp -- as in, betting yours is defective. I always go to electrical parts houses for more quality parts. Also, the fields of detection of motion sensors vary from like 110 - 180 degrees, so try a max range model next go around.

Good luck, sir!
 

kart-racer

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The sensor is probably detecting to much daylight and is not tuning the light on. Does is work 100% of the time at night ?
 
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jaw444

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Thank you everybody !

kart-racer: the light is in the windowless darkened garage with the bulb overhead and sensor in the center of the garage. when i open the door to walk in (the regular door), it's very dark in there, even with the small door open, and then the light comes on immediately, as it's supposed to, day or night. When i return home and want to drive in, day or night, the light won't go on. The red motion detection indicator light flashes three times when the car moves into its range, but the bulb doesn't turn on. if i walk in front of it it also flashes red but the light doesn't turn on. Day or night, it only works with the walk through door, not the garage door when the car comes in or when i walk in. It also has a dawn to dusk setting but it's turned to off. The garage door also has a motion triggered light, integrated part of the garage door opener. It never had any effect on my old motion sensor that i just replaced. it always worked fine.

Does any of this make sense? it turns the light bulb on when i come through the walk through door. Even though the red light tells me it detected motion, it doesn't turn on when i come through the garage door, including if i walk in. why might that be? if it senses motion, why doesn't it turn the light bulb on unless i come through the walk through door? It's probably defective, right? I'm on hold with home depot right now because i was going to try to talk to tech support. The rep put me on hold and said they could "partner with the manufacturer" and she asked me who the manufacturer was. too much trouble. I texted the electrician last night but he did not respond.
 
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jaw444

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welcome to the Garage. last I checked hd didn't sell government level heat sensing lights. it senses movement. why yours isn't going on doesn't make sense. if you walk in the car way I'm guessing it doesn't go on? is the light still set on test mode? try turning the sensitivity half way.
last option is its broke and take it back for another. I'm hoping this isn't a 9.99 light? and this time you need to do it yourself. No calling an electrician for a simple replacement.

Kaizen - yes, you're right, the light doesn't go on when i walk in through the garage door. what would be the logic of that? It goes on every time i walk in through the walk through door.

also, why would it not just turn the light on when it detects motion? and doesn't the flashing red light motion detection indicator mean that it detects motion? It only comes if i or the car moves in front of it. If i or the car become still, it stops flashing and i move again, it flashes again. So it's detecting motion, right? So why does it not want to turn the light bulb on, unless i come through the walk through door?

it's not set to test mode. I will try turning the sensitivity and see what happens. there is only one dial on the control panel and it is labeled Range. So is Range the same as sensitivity? My old one has a dial that is labeled sensitivity and another dial that is labeled Photocell.

Because the electrician installed it and it has not worked, i want them to come back and get it working or install a different one. i don't expect to have to pay for that. i texted him the next day to tell him it wasn't working.

I sure wish i could get one just like the old one i had, it worked for 8 years, and it did everything right and no problems. i think that company doesn't exist anymore, it's called Stonco in Union NJ, Model No. MD-501. i googled the company, it seems to be owned by Philips and the link said Philips closed it in 2011. I wonder if the old one can be repaired.

I was hoping to find out where i could find one that would be as good as the old one, but it seems to not be as simple as it once was.
 
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jaw444

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The Defiant brand motion sensors are of questionable quality. I'm on my third in two years (2 year warranty) and every one of them gets to the point where they will come on and won't shut off.

Have you considered a motion detector built into the switch rather than at the light fixture?

Motion-Sensor-Light-Switch2.jpg


Motion is motion, it doesn't matter what it comes from. That's BS you were fed about them not being able to detect anything but body heat.

Thanks for that info. No, i don't know anything about these things and did not know there was a light switch type. i would need to have an electrician do it, so i want to get the guy who installed this overhead one last week to take care of it, depending on how much. Does that light switch type have settings you can adjust, such as time on? i guess you wouldn't need that if it was sensitive enough to come on with any motion.
 
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jaw444

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What light is it controlling - a ceiling mounted light bulb in the center of your garage?

You may just want to try something like this. It is a LED light bulb with the a motion sensor built in. I have a couple and they work really well. Cost was $18 from Amazon. If it doesn't work - just send it back

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LBPFUF8/?tag=atomicindus08-20


Thanks---yes, it's a ceiling mounted light bulb in the center of the garage, a light fixture with an incandescent bulb, and the motion detector is wired into the fixture.

Thanks for the info about the LED sensor bulb. would i just screw it in to the same place where the current incandescent bulb is? That would be an easy solution. No down side? about how long does it stay on for?
 

NUTTSGT

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Is this motion light on a switch ? If so, some motionlights need to reset after the power is turned on to them.

Is there a photo eye on the sensor ? If there is, put a piece of dark tape over the sensor. You may need to fool it into thinking it is dark out, even if dusk/dawn is turned off.
 
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jaw444

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Welcome to TGJ, where you will learn plenty! :thumbup:

I am with csp -- as in, betting yours is defective. I always go to electrical parts houses for more quality parts. Also, the fields of detection of motion sensors vary from like 110 - 180 degrees, so try a max range model next go around.

Good luck, sir!


It's good news to think the unit is defective because my old one looks pretty similar and never had a problem for 8 years. i googled how to find a replacement that will detect my car and found nothing about that, which must be because contrary to what Home depot said, this one IS supposed to detect my car.

The thing that worried me about that before i even tried it out, when the electrician was still here, installing some other things, i was looking at the user guide and i read under trouble shooting where under 'light will not come on' it gave one reason as being "the outside air temperature is close to the same as the person's body heat." i thought, what does my body heat have to do with anything? i want it to turn the light on when i drive my car in too. What does body heat have to do with anything??

As for the field of detection, i'm looking at the specifications in the manual. All it has is Range, which says up to 100 feet, and 'varies with surrounding temperature.' Oh yeah, it also has 'Sensing angle" which says 'up to 270 feet.'
It doesn't have anything with degrees. but i will ask for one with 180 degrees when i replace this seemingly defective one. thanks.
 
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jaw444

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Is this motion light on a switch ? If so, some motionlights need to reset after the power is turned on to them.

Is there a photo eye on the sensor ? If there is, put a piece of dark tape over the sensor. You may need to fool it into thinking it is dark out, even if dusk/dawn is turned off.


Im not sure if it's on a switch. Not that i know of. The controls on it include Range (min-max), On-time (test, 1, 5, 20), Dual Brite (off, 3, 6, dusk to dawn) and Lamp mode (normal, soft flash). Otherwise it's just wired to the fixture. The directions tell how to use it manually, from the wall light switch.

i don't see a photo eye. My old one has a little round silvery looking thing next to the sensor which i would guess is a photo eye. it has a control for adjusting the photo cell. The new one doesn't have that.

i will try what you suggested, thanks. i have a question. Why does it have to think it's dark out? what does light and dark have to do with it? I thought this was something that would come on when there is motion, whether it's light or dark. I have one on the side of my house that comes on day or night if there is motion. i thought it was like that.

thanks
 
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redmondjp

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Motion is motion, it doesn't matter what it comes from. That's BS you were fed about them not being able to detect anything but body heat.

Wrong. That's exactly how 99% of these sensors work - they are passive infrared sensors. They detect a change in the heat pattern in their field of view. That's why automatic faucets and paper towel dispensers equipped with these sensors don't work very well for some people with poor circulation in their hands (cold hands).


To the OP: Most of these units have a daylight sensor so they don't come on during the daytime. If you don't see it on the unit, they may now have moved it behind the infrared sensor lens.
 
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Kaizen

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jaw if you tested it and it was fine before he left I wouldn't expect a free visit back to put in a different light. now if he was selling those lights that would be a different story. its not hard to do and if you need help we're here so don't make it into a big issue. good luck
 

csp

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Wrong. That's exactly how 99% of these sensors work - they are passive infrared sensors.

Even so, that doesn't make a sensor work with a human walking in one door and not work with a car driving in. The sensors aren't human or car specific as the customer service explained to the OP. He was fed a line of BS. He has a defective sensor that needs to be replaced. It's that simple.
 

Git

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Thanks---yes, it's a ceiling mounted light bulb in the center of the garage, a light fixture with an incandescent bulb, and the motion detector is wired into the fixture.

Thanks for the info about the LED sensor bulb. would i just screw it in to the same place where the current incandescent bulb is? That would be an easy solution. No down side? about how long does it stay on for?


Yes - it is as simple as screwing in a new bulb and it only uses 8 watts. I have one out by front door and I really don't pay much attention to it. If someone walks by it will stay on for a couple of minutes at least or longer if there is more motion.

check out some of the reviews on Amazon in the link
 

redmondjp

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Even so, that doesn't make a sensor work with a human walking in one door and not work with a car driving in. The sensors aren't human or car specific as the customer service explained to the OP. He was fed a line of BS. He has a defective sensor that needs to be replaced. It's that simple.

No, it's not. Because if it has a built-in daylight sensor, that could be the explanation for why the light sometimes doesn't turn on, as already explained above.
 

Crusarius

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I would put money on to much ambient light for the sensor to come on. I had a very similar unit and since it was in an area there was only ambient light in the daytime it worked flawlessly. I would bet the light from your garage door opener is just bright enough it thinks it is daytime. I do almost wonder about turning sensitivity down.
 
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jaw444

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Thank you to everybody for trouble shooting this. Crusarius, that was the last piece of the puzzle for me, you mentioning the brightness of the garage door opener light, which is very close to the motion sensor. unfortunately, there is no 'sensitivity' control, my old one did have that, but this new one seems inferior in many ways. But i tried putting a piece of electrical tape over what i hoped was going to be the photo sensor and it worked. I saw it when i was up there looking for the nonexistent sensitivity control, it was the one thing that didn't have any label and no explanation of what it was in the manual. It's in the diagram but not labeled. putting electrical tape over it resulted in the thing now working like my old one did, it comes on when i walk or drive through the open garage door, what a relief. I hope this solution will last.

I really appreciate this conversation and everybody's help, a lot of people suspected it was getting too much light, which just confused me because it had the problem day and night, but then, the garage door light made sense of it.

I am also glad to know about other solutions including the screw in LED, not necessarily for the garage but lots of potential uses for that. and the light switch motion sensor, good to know.

Kaizen - the operation of the sensor was not fully tested while the electrician was here. It was him and his son, and his son installed it, and i was sitting out there with him while he was installing it, and he put it in test mode and checked to make sure it turned on when i came through the door. i asked him about the car coming in and he said it would work with that too. He said if there was any problem, i could just adjust the positioning of the sensor. That's what i did when the light wasn't coming on, i kept pushing it down. On the fourth attempt, i pushed it so far, it broke---the thing that holds it in various positions snapped loose and it can no longer be put in different positions, it just hangs there, but at least it's in the right position to sense everything. Since i reported to the guy that it wasn't working the following day, i thought making sure it was working was part of the deal, and if i needed a new sensor because it was the wrong kind (not because it was defective) i would pay for the new one of course, but i needed him to install it. He texted me back today and said it might need some adjustment (the wiring). I texted him back and asked if he thought covering that unknown thing with tape was worth trying. but then i just went and did it and then texted him that it works now.

I sure appreciate this forum being here, and your assurance that you could help me if i need to install something new. I really appreciate everything. I started out thinking i had the wrong kind of sensor, but couldn't find anything on google that addressed the difference between this one and the previous one. then, thanks to the ideas and knowledge here, it got figured out.

below is a picture of the diagram of the motion sensor controls and on the right is the unlabeled picture of the thing i covered up.
 

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redmondjp

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Yup - that 'D' shaped hole is for the ambient light sensor - I had forgotten that some of those were not in a round hole.

20 years ago, the nicer sensor heads came with a rubber plug so you could block off that window so it would operate the same day or night.
 

Kaizen

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good deal. but I still say if you're hanging here next time you need to do it yourself. piece of cake
 

Garage Junkie

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This is a great discussion- I've learned a lot from this thread! Have any of you messed with the Liftmaster sensors? I've owned 5 of them now and they all seem to work fine for a while, then they either lose sensitivity, or its like they become supersensitive and come on all time even when there is nothing to trigger them? That's the problem I have now- the two in the garage keep tripping all the time and the lights end up staying on almost constantly. Now in the last several weeks, they are not sensing me walking in or out of the garage until I wave my arms or get real close? Any thoughts?
 

redmondjp

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This is a great discussion- I've learned a lot from this thread! Have any of you messed with the Liftmaster sensors? I've owned 5 of them now and they all seem to work fine for a while, then they either lose sensitivity, or its like they become supersensitive and come on all time even when there is nothing to trigger them? That's the problem I have now- the two in the garage keep tripping all the time and the lights end up staying on almost constantly. Now in the last several weeks, they are not sensing me walking in or out of the garage until I wave my arms or get real close? Any thoughts?

Here is something to check for - make sure that the sensor isn't 'seeing' any parts of the lamps, and also check for any objects that are near the sensor and in its field of view that are illuminated by the lamps (this is assuming incandescent or halogen bulbs).

What can happen is that when the lights turn off, the sensor sees "hot spots" on either the lamps or the nearby objects, and the change in heat signature generated when these hot spots cool down can re-trigger the sensor, creating an endless on-off cycle. Solutions are to turn down the sensitivity, re-position the lamps/sensor, or take some tape and block off part of the sensing window. Using LED bulbs may be another solution, assuming that the motion light driver electronics is compatible with the LED bulb.

If there is a gradual loss of sensitivity on sensors that have direct exposure to the sun, it could be UV damage to the plastic lens (the same as happens to plastic headlamp housings on cars) over time. Otherwise, a change in performance could be due to poor-quality electronics (a whole different subject we don't need to discuss here).

One thing I always try to do with motion lights is to have a convenient way to switch power to them, in order to reset the electronics (such as a "stuck-on" condition).

HTH
 

Garage Junkie

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Thanks Redmond! I will try those things! I've been running cfl in the light fixtures, though I've had the same problem with incandescents too. But even cfls create enough heat to trigger the sensor, so that might be a real possibility.

Perhaps I can make a little hood that prevents the sensor from seeing high up to prevent this.
I've also wondered if dust builds up inside these units since they're not very well sealed.
 

barks

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Lift master has a switch function on the module with the controls.
 
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