How to find a good electrician Part 2

[78C-10]

I was given the name of an electrician, I called him and I was impressed by the prompt return call and he came out and gave me a quote right then and there. I told him what I wanted and he explained how things would be done, I was also impressed by his ideas. This job is a full power and lighting job in my pole barn. I explained my financial situation to him and he offered to work with me as his quote was higher than the first quote from another electrician who never even called me back. I was going to give him most of the money(all that I had for the job) and then pay him off in a few months. He said his crew would get started the following week, the week after Thanksgiving, early December. They came out later that week and ran the wire from the basement to the garage, trenching and all. Another week goes by, then they came out and mounted the box and installed one outlet. They would come out when they could to finish the job.

I get a call early this week, he was apologizing, they got busy they had emergency calls, blah blah blah. He said they would start back to work today and work until they finish the job which I was told would be early to mid next week. I pull my vehicles out, move all the benches, cabinets, etc away from the walls to make it easier for them. Well there was a no show and no call. I'm getting pi$$ed. What it is with contractors promising to work but then when they know they've got you they do what they want when they want? I went through the same thing when the barn was built, I was told it would take 3-4 days to put the building up, it wound up taking them all of December 2012 to build a pole barn coming a day here and a day there. I mean no disrespect to anyone here that is in the construction business but it just gets frustrating when I am told one thing and another is done and if you can't make it at least call me and tell me. I'm not sure if it is because I don't have all of the money right now but I told him my story and HE agreed to take the job and HE said I could make payments to finish off the bill. I don't like owing people, especially ones I don't know, first time I ever met this guy and he says I can make payments. Sorry but I had to vent somewhere and I know I can do it here even if I'm in the wrong. Your thoughts?

 

[alfredeneuman]

I
I'm not sure if it is because I don't have all of the money right now but I told him my story and HE agreed to take the job and HE said I could make payments to finish off the bill. I don't like owing people, especially ones I don't know, first time I ever met this guy and he says I can make payments. Your thoughts?

Perhaps, he has other jobs that he has not offered payments to, and he has your job at the bottom of his priority.

Cash is King, and credit takes a back seat.
Did he give you a completion date?

 

[dkroth]

78,

Have you paid him any money yet?

 

[78C-10]

Cash is King, and credit takes a back seat.
Did he give you a completion date?

He never gave me a completion date as he sure made it sound like when they'd start the first week of December they would stay and complete the job.

 

[78C-10]

78,

Have you paid him any money yet?

No I haven't given any money yet, I asked him if he needed money to start but he said to pay him when the job is done.

 

[d3ad1ysp0rk]

People make lots of excuses for it, but folks in trades are notoriously bad business folks. I think there is a lot of money to be made by essentially being a business management firm for home trades.

 

[Slowgsr]

Sounds like a job im doing.

Smaller pole barn 30x60 - lots of work, no ordinary shop. I started feb of this year. Slow going. I had my rough in passed months ago, I'm waiting on the home owner to close the walls so I can finish. I didn't even quote, just said I'd do it t&m, didn't even give him an hourly rate... I took the job over from another electrician, who didn't show up. I have maybe 6 days 3 men into the job. The owner has around 4500 in just the service.

He has x6 50amp welding plugs, he dislikes extension cords were his words, Sofit potlights, all LED fixtures. 10 switches, bit much imo.

I haven't asked for any money either, he's offered but it's not much to float, and he's not a stranger

Jobs with contract deadlines get priority, ie penalties. Also customers who I do 150k+ per year get priority over a one time customer. Just the way it works...

Op - how is the quality of work?

 

[Slowgsr]

People make lots of excuses for it, but folks in trades are notoriously bad business folks. I think there is a lot of money to be made by essentially being a business management firm for home trades.

Ie - hiring a GC.

 

[78C-10]

Op - how is the quality of work?[/QUOTE]

So far I am pleased with the quality of work, it is very good and professional. I understand priority work and that is fine, just tell me and don't give me false deadlines/show up dates. I've lived without power in the shop for the last three years and a little while longer won't hurt but I just can't stand false promises.

 

[frankush]

If he said he was going to be there and never showed, I'd be pissed too. He has a vested interest in your job, seeing that he's put out money for material and the wages paid to his crew. My guess is he'll be back to bang it out soon. If he's willing to work with you on payment terms, that has to be worth something. Most contractors have been burned so many times because of non payment, that they'll even take credit cards to avoid financing a job.

 

[simpler=better]

I agree with alfredeneuman:

#1-Get the cash in your account
#2 Write a check for the full amount
#3 Call him back and say "Hey I've got the $### ready to go, check's written, barn's cleared out, cmon' and get it!"

 

[myredracer]

All too common in the residential sector everywhere. It's like a different world compared to commercial work. Would never happen on commercial projects as you'd be holding up all the other trades up and you'd be wearing cement boots the next day.

No disrespect, but if you've worked with small businesses or 1 man shows long enough in construction, you've got to expect this to happen often. Rather than waiting for his call, I'd be phoning and phoning the guy ahead of time to make sure he is coming and up to the time he shows up, if that's what it takes. Tell him the barn's gonna be emptied and you need him there now. Early bird gets the worm, or whatever the appropriate metaphor is... You have the upper hand if he's done work and not gotten payment yet as he will want his $$ without troubles. You *could* politely ask him when he's going to be there and tell him otherwise you may need to look for someone else. Sometimes this is all it takes.

Sometimes they use small jobs as fill-ins to keep their employees busy and they get there when they get there. Maybe you could have discussed his scheduling upfront. A good contractor would phone you tho. but in my experience is the exception rather than the norm.

 

[Rocker4x4]

Never ending story with contractors. (residential) They are pretty much all work like that. They float from job to job trying to keep everyone happy and make the most money as possible. It is tough for them I'm sure. but if they can understand a simple phone call of, hey something came up, I'm sorry, i'll be there when I can. that would make all the difference imo.. Electricians to concrete workers to framers, they all seem to operate this way, how they plan a day's work and how it goes is usually 2 different things. About the only positive way to look at it sometimes is this. If a guy is that busy, that maybe a good thing, he must do ok work to stay that busy,

p.s Gil is dead on,, squeaky wheel gets the grease!

 

[RM209]

People make lots of excuses for it, but folks in trades are notoriously bad business folks.

This. Many small contractors are excellent tradesmen (and women), but have never been trained in the basics of how to run a business, including schedule and manage jobs, purchase materials efficiently, manage cashflow, etc. he's probably a fine electrician, but is not yet the strongest contractor.

If you offer to make payment, you'll get his attention.

RM209

 

[justsam]

He may be a fine electrician but he is also a LIAR!

If a man gives his word to be someplace, and does not show or call, than that is dishonesty, or his word has no value.

We keep trying to be politically correct and avoid calling it what it is.

Method of payment should have no bearing on whether a man keeps his word!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

People make lots of excuses for it, but folks in trades are notoriously bad business folks. I think there is a lot of money to be made by essentially being a business management firm for home trades.

The secret is to either be the boss or do the work,Trying to do both can cause all kinds of grief.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

The secret is to either be the boss or do the work,Trying to do both can cause all kinds of grief.

:

And then ....there is that cumbersome time when the contractor gets to the point of having too much work to do by himself, but not enough money to start hiring/paying the extra employees to help out. A tough transition that I could not make ....and why many never make it passed the first two years in the self contracting business. JMO

 

[Jess]

This can be an issue with any sub trade. They have crews to keep busy and relationships with their regular contractors. Smaller jobs get fitted in when they have time, but to protect their relationship with those that send them the most work, you will wait. This isn't a workmanship or necessarily a business management issue, its the reality of keeping your crews working. If you don't have full time for your best people, they find it somewhere else. Be patient, it will get done and you will likely be happy with the results.

 

[78C-10]

Thank you everyone for your input, I appreciate it and it is one of the many reasons I enjoy GJ. The electric crew showed up today! They got the outlet boxes and light fixtures installed. They were gone when I got home so I called him and thanked him, everything looked great, like I said about the previous work everything looked nice and professional. He said they will return next week to finish the job.

This garage is my first construction project and I am learning more and more about the contracting business. Like I said, I meant no disrespect to any contractors here, I just know for the future what to expect. Thank you

 

[Syberia]

How big of an operation is it? The people we used to install solar (up and running as of this morning, so it did finally get done) seem to be like this too. They showed up twice without even telling us they were starting, then several weeks at a time of nothing. Then they call for a final inspection without even having the stuff hooked up that they're supposed to. Tell us someone will be coming the same day to finish it, instead he shows up in a week. Everything did eventually get done though.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

:

And then ....there is that cumbersome time when the contractor gets to the point of having too much work to do by himself, but not enough money to start hiring/paying the extra employees to help out. A tough transition that I could not make ....and why many never make it passed the first two years in the self contracting business. JMO

Now that its just me doing things myself I try not to take on anymore big projects,but every now and then Ill get an old customer who bugs me enough.(I usually end up regretting it! )
I generally make a lot more money doing service calls anyway,Im too much of an **** retentive ***** to make money on the big jobs doing them myself.

 

[Zeke]

Having been a residential general contractor doing home improvement for 45 years (now retired) makes me take offense to some of the comments — but it's the same ol' SearsHFWallymartcontractor bashing that goes forth here.

Let me ask just this: what does this thread accomplish? The job got done a day later. I'm sorry you had to impugn the entire construction industry over your pole barn that you were having wired on credit.

Seen your type a 1000 times and happy to no longer be working for people like you.

 

[78C-10]

Let me ask just this: what does this thread accomplish? The job got done a day later. I'm sorry you had to impugn the entire construction industry over your pole barn that you were having wired on credit.



What does any thread on any forum accomplish? I never asked him to work with me on the financial side of things, HE OFFERED himself. I told him we can wait until I had the full amount, HE SAID "No, we'll do it this way"

I'm not bashing the construction industry, hell I work in it too but if I work a little on this machine and a little on that machine at work I'd be shown the door. It would just be nice to know what is going on their end, there just seems to be a lack of communication in society today.

 

[Zeke]

The secret is to either be the boss or do the work,Trying to do both can cause all kinds of grief.

:

And then ....there is that cumbersome time when the contractor gets to the point of having too much work to do by himself, but not enough money to start hiring/paying the extra employees to help out. A tough transition that I could not make ....and why many never make it passed the first two years in the self contracting business. JMO

There is actually a 'black hole' in contracting that should be called the red hole. A contractor working on the job with up to a few helpers can make good money and afford to pay decent. When he/she gets to the point that 2 crews are needed is when the bleeding starts. As a employer and manager not working on the job it takes well over a dozen workers to sustain the business. In most cases that would be well over just 2 crews. If you're running trucks with a journeyman and a helper, yoy need 6 trucks or so.

So the object is to leap over the black hole as quickly as possible to maintain profits. Many do not see this coming.

YMMV as to the type of contractor you are and the stats are somewhat old; it may be different numbers nowadays.

What does any thread on any forum accomplish? I never asked him to work with me on the financial side of things, HE OFFERED himself. I told him we can wait until I had the full amount, HE SAID "No, we'll do it this way"

I'm not bashing the construction industry, hell I work in it too but if I work a little on this machine and a little on that machine at work I'd be shown the door. It would just be nice to know what is going on their end, there just seems to be a lack of communication in society today.

A lot of threads on the GJ and Net in general are informative if not amusing. I see neither here.

 

[laser3kw]

to the OP 78C10
sorry you are having difficulties. I never would have suspected this would have happen. The only thing I can offer (though not helpful to your situation) is during this time of year, a lot of manufacture plants go on shut down for the holiday. When this happens, the contractors go into over time to turn around installs and upgrades so not to impact production. Call Rod, I'm sure he well be upfront with you and meet your needs to your full expectations.

Happy holidays

 

[jd_1138]

People make lots of excuses for it, but folks in trades are notoriously bad business folks. I think there is a lot of money to be made by essentially being a business management firm for home trades.

And a lot of them have zero people skills. My mom had a local GC in her small town do about 30k worth of work at the house she recently bought. Then my sister needed about 15k of stuff done (3 or 4 projects), so my sister decided to use the same GC.

I guess the GC didn't bother to tell the thug sub's that their new client was the daughter of their last client. So the first day they show up at my sister's house, they demolish a wall, and then while eating lunch they were talking s--t about my mother. Saying derogatory things about her body, saying she must've inherited the money she spent to repair her house, etc. -- all within earshot of my sister who promptly came out of the living room and fired them on the spot. Stupid a-holes. Word of mouth is important, and negative reviews are more powerful than positive ones.

She found a respectful contractor who completed the work and for less money.

 

[78C-10]

A lot of threads on the GJ and Net in general are informative if not amusing. I see neither here.

Moderators may delete this post then, no point in keeping this one. I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

 

[frankush]

This thread was useful to you as stated previously. No reason to delete it. The bashing is always the problem. Some folks wait to pounce like a cougar in a tree. Don't let it bother you. My question for you is are you happy enough with the outcome, to recommend his work to others? You might want to let him know how you feel when you hand him the final payment. Enjoy the "new" garage.

 

[78C-10]

Yes I'd still recommend him and I like the work they are doing. I just know I'd catch hell if I didn't communicate in my profession. In general I just wonder why any contractor would jump around, (emergencies excluded) why not just finish one job and move to the next instead of bouncing back and forth? I am asking because I do not know.

 

[jd_1138]

Yes I'd still recommend him and I like the work they are doing. I just know I'd catch hell if I didn't communicate in my profession. In general I just wonder why any contractor would jump around, (emergencies excluded) why not just finish one job and move to the next instead of bouncing back and forth? I am asking because I do not know.

Probably a combination of being disorganized, underestimating how long a project will take, and telling people he can start right away (so they don't call another contractor) even though he knows he will have to bop around to several jobs that are already started.

 

[frankush]

It's part of being a sub contractor. On some jobs, once you finish the rough in, there is nothing else for you to do until the drywall goes up. You'll hit another job the next day and do what's needed there. If you're working for a good general contractor he'll keep you posted as to when a particular job is ready for you to come back. Sometimes the scheduling gets FUBARED and you have to jump. If a general contractor supplies most of your work, you jump to keep him happy. Sometimes a job like yours gets bumped, but that is no reason not to communicate and keep you in the loop. Most contractors are involved in multiple projects at one time. It's the only way to have a steady income. Each remodeling project or new home build will have a different schedule and you have to shuffle manpower and tooling accordingly. Hope that helps you to understand. Zske has lots of experience doing just that. Probably just having a rough day.

 

[walrus]

It's part of being a sub contractor. On some jobs, once you finish the rough in, there is nothing else for you to do until the drywall goes up. You'll hit another job the next day and do what's needed there. If you're working for a good general contractor he'll keep you posted as to when a particular job is ready for you to come back. Sometimes the scheduling gets FUBARED and you have to jump. If a general contractor supplies most of your work, you jump to keep him happy. Sometimes a job like yours gets bumped, but that is no reason not to communicate and keep you in the loop.

I have 2 big customers, I have to jump and run for them, they keep me in business. That mean some guy I'm working for once takes a back seat. Sorry that's just the way it is. But I know what a phone is and I make it a point to call.they might get mad initially(when I say I won't be there) but calm down later.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

It's part of being a sub contractor. On some jobs, once you finish the rough in, there is nothing else for you to do until the drywall goes up. You'll hit another job the next day and do what's needed there. If you're working for a good general contractor he'll keep you posted as to when a particular job is ready for you to come back. Sometimes the scheduling gets FUBARED and you have to jump. If a general contractor supplies most of your work, you jump to keep him happy. Sometimes a job like yours gets bumped, but that is no reason not to communicate and keep you in the loop. Most contractors are involved in multiple projects at one time. It's the only way to have a steady income. Each remodeling project or new home build will have a different schedule and you have to shuffle manpower and tooling accordingly. Hope that helps you to understand. Zske has lots of experience doing just that. Probably just having a rough day.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

A couple of years back i had a guy in omaha who thought he was going to make a fortune on this ratty old 3 story house that he wanted to make 3 apartments out of,I thought the place should of been bulldozed myself but what the hell.
So anyway I gave him a bid for doing 3 furnaces/ac's ductwork......./wiring each apartment seperately with seperate meters and plumbing it for 3 seperate apts.
The guy about **** himself when he saw the bid for the plumbing. So I told him that since he wanted 3 seperate apts it was considered commercial and had to use all cast iron and copper dwv for the plumbing drains and venting,I told him if he only had 2 units it would be considered residential so it could be done in pvc instead.
So after a couple of weeks he decides to go with 2 apartments and gave me a deposit of around $2000.00 to start on the electrical later that week after they finished demoing the interior.
So I set the temp pole and got it fired up so theyd have power to work and waited for him to call me to start on the rest of the rough in.
So I started calling him a couple times a week just to see if he was ready,finally after about a month he gets all pissed off and tells me he will call me when hes ready to start! So I told the ******** whatever,call me when youre ready!
So after another 3-4 mos of no response from the **** head I called the power co to come get their meter because I was pulling my temp pole,then I yanked the pole off the property.
Fast forward 2-3 months and this shmuck calls me saying that hes ready to start and wants to know what happened to temp pole?
I reminded him that it was my pole,not his and we were supposed to start on the job 6 mos earlier but he kept blowing me off!
Then he started bitching about wanting his deposit back. I told him he owed me that much for tying up my stuff ,and if he decided to start the job Id credit towards materials but I wasnt just going to give it back to him after all the bs he caused me.
He ended up selling the building to some investor,building still looked the same last time I drove by it.
So remember,it isnt always the contractors who are the A-holes.

 

[jd_1138]

He ended up selling the building to some investor,building still looked the same last time I drove by it.
So remember,it isnt always the contractors who are the A-holes.

Wow, what a d-bag. He would've been a major PITA customer. A friend of mine sunk his retirement money into rental houses. But he's pretty professional about it and doesn't **** around. He hires a guy who's a plumber/electrician/HVAC to come in and square away the utilities. Then he goes and gets (he picks them up and drops them off) an Amish crew of 5 guys to do the roofing, carpentry, flooring, drywall, porches, etc. type stuff. He works with the same guys over and over.

 

[78C-10]

So remember,it isnt always the contractors who are the A-holes.

I yi yi, what did I start? I never called the EC or anyone an A-hole. He's actually a very nice guy. I just wanted a start and finish date and a phone call or two in between. Yes I now understand I am not the big check writing customer. I'm new to hiring contractors and learning here as I go. Like cutting a piece of material I better think twice and type once before a post.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I yi yi, what did I start? I never called the EC or anyone an A-hole. He's actually a very nice guy. I just wanted a start and finish date and a phone call or two in between. Yes I now understand I am not the big check writing customer. I'm new to hiring contractors and learning here as I go. Like cutting a piece of material I better think twice and type once before a post.

That wasnt directed at you,It was a couple of the other guys talking **** about contractors that needed to be reminded that its a 2way street is all.

 

[Zeke]

A couple of years back i had a guy in omaha who thought he was going to make a fortune on this ratty old 3 story house that he wanted to make 3 apartments out of,I thought the place should of been bulldozed myself but what the hell.
So anyway I gave him a bid for doing 3 furnaces/ac's ductwork......./wiring each apartment seperately with seperate meters and plumbing it for 3 seperate apts.
The guy about **** himself when he saw the bid for the plumbing. So I told him that since he wanted 3 seperate apts it was considered commercial and had to use all cast iron and copper dwv for the plumbing drains and venting,I told him if he only had 2 units it would be considered residential so it could be done in pvc instead.
So after a couple of weeks he decides to go with 2 apartments and gave me a deposit of around $2000.00 to start on the electrical later that week after they finished demoing the interior.
So I set the temp pole and got it fired up so theyd have power to work and waited for him to call me to start on the rest of the rough in.
So I started calling him a couple times a week just to see if he was ready,finally after about a month he gets all pissed off and tells me he will call me when hes ready to start! So I told the ******** whatever,call me when youre ready!
So after another 3-4 mos of no response from the **** head I called the power co to come get their meter because I was pulling my temp pole,then I yanked the pole off the property.
Fast forward 2-3 months and this shmuck calls me saying that hes ready to start and wants to know what happened to temp pole?
I reminded him that it was my pole,not his and we were supposed to start on the job 6 mos earlier but he kept blowing me off!
Then he started bitching about wanting his deposit back. I told him he owed me that much for tying up my stuff ,and if he decided to start the job Id credit towards materials but I wasnt just going to give it back to him after all the bs he caused me.
He ended up selling the building to some investor,building still looked the same last time I drove by it.
So remember,it isnt always the contractors who are the A-holes.

Best sentence in the thread. I'm not referring to the OP especially, just the public in general. 95% of the people I worked for were great customers. However, communicating and being on time was essential for me and was how I ran my business.

 

[78C-10]

Best sentence in the thread. I'm not referring to the OP especially, just the public in general. 95% of the people I worked for were great customers. However, communicating and being on time was essential for me and was how I ran my business.

This ^^^

 

[bjcouche]

I'm not a tradesman, but am more on the customer side. That said I do understand that tradesman have to jump from job to job, more often than not, just to stay busy. I would guess that most remodel or new construction projects can have a well scheduled plan, but invariably there's one trade that causes a delay for some unforeseen reason, found asbestos, inspector didn't show on time, etc. That causes all the other trade's schedules to be messed up. Recently I've had difficulties getting a plumber to come out and finish a bathroom, even when I assured him I had cash in hand. I expect that my project is to be used as fill in work, I have no problem with that. My single and only complaint is that if the guy says he'll be there at 10am on Wed, that he call (or even text) by 9am Wed saying "something came up, I can't make it". I wouldn't be mad at all. What makes me mad is having to wait around all day for him to show up and never getting a call, or when I call him he doesn't pick up or return the call.
I fully understand that the tradesman deal with the general public, and that many customers are just a pain to deal with, always making unreasonable demands, etc.
In my plumber example, After I called and left messages for 3 weeks without a call back, I just stopped calling and finished the project myself. I had that plumber do work for me before, and it was top notch workmanship. For the bathroom work, I didn't get quotes and haggle for the cheapest, I just called that plumber and told him the job was his if he wanted it. I guess he was too busy, but he should have just said that in the first place.