Need advice on champion brute platinum drill bits

[hondacivic247]

I'm looking to get a new set of champion brute platinum drill bits for drilling steel now that I've been welding alot more. I've never owned a good set the best I've had is dewalt titanium bits which did alright when kept lubed. I use a milwaukee fuel drill so I'm leaning more towards the platinum bits of a set of cobalts cause of possible side load.

Has anyone used these or can recommend something I've used some dormers which I borrowed at work and they drilled amazingly fast through 1/4 steel or should I just go with cobalt step bits as there less likely to break/shatter?

 

[neophyte]

Cobalt steel is more likely to shatter rather than less likely!

The advantage to cobalt steel is hardness and heat resistance over regular HSS. With the extra hardness comes extra brittleness which is the reason most average cobalt bits are made with thicker flute geometries.

For extra toughness to prevent shattering you want M7 HSS drill bits. The M7 HSS contains a higher amount of molybdenum which adds toughness. The USA made "Magnum" drill bits from Norseman and a few others are M7 steel and are well regarded.

"Multipurpose" drill bits that several manufacturers offer might be another option. These are made with a carbide tip brazed onto a steel body and are made for drilling a wide variety of materials. I don't know whether there as accurate as regular twist drills if hole sizing is critical.

 

[hondacivic247]

Bump anyone got info

 

[hondacivic247]

I know cobalt will shatter easier with a regular jobber style bit but a step bit/ unitbit in cobalt I can't see breaking very easy as there thick.

Champions platinum bits are suppose to be a good option to cobalt but I haven't found much info on them

 

[uart]

What type of things do you see yourself mostly using them for hondacivic?

Regular HSS bits like the Champion's typically have very different usage to step bits. When comparing regular twist bits to unibits it's not really a question of cobalt vs HSS, but more about what type of holes you need to drill.

Step bits are generally only for drilling (and especially enlarging) holes in thin material. They're not that great for most other applications. A regular set of HSS drill bits like the Champion' (or the Norseman's recommended by neophyte) have much more general purpose application.

BTW. Here's a video of a guy testing those Champion's. I don't really endorse his drill press techniques, but his videos are entertaining. The "molybdenum" bits he refers to when he's comparing their performance are (rebranded) Norseman's BTW.

 

[hondacivic247]

I've watched a bunch of his videos. I've been working with 1/4 steel is usually the max. I don't do any SS or anything crazy. My dewalt titanium coated bits work but I got some cash for my birthday so I figured I'd invest in something worth while. I hate how the 29 peice kits come in 1/64ths cause I'll never used 3/4 of them and a 14 peice kit is basically 20 bucks less...

 

[Ainsley]

I have a set of the champion brute twist bits in mechanics length. So far I've been very impressed with them.
My supplier has been switching over to cle-line bits and the whole greenfield line. The couple samples I've tried have been impressive.

 

[uart]

I hate how the 29 peice kits come in 1/64ths cause I'll never used 3/4 of them and a 14 peice kit is basically 20 bucks less...

Don't be too sure. I know you're doing some welding projects, and presumably you're looking at putting clearance holes in parts where it's more appropriate to have them bolted than welded.

Yes you probable don't need 1/64ths for making clearance holes, but what about when you decide you need to tap some threads, the 1/64 increment is very handy then. (And before someone says it, I know you really need a full number/letter set to get the exact right size for each tap/drill, but for non critical stuff of 1/4" and above I can always find something close enough with 1/64th).

 

[hondacivic247]

I came cross greenfield step bits on ebay but wad not sure of them as I've never herd of them. I got a $50 ebay gift card so I'm up on the air on what to get, they have some milwaukee red helix cobalt bits 14pc for 60-80 or a 21pc champion xl-5 kit for 75-80

 

[uart]

I've never heard of greenfield step bits. Are you sure they weren't "greenlee"?

they have some milwaukee red helix cobalt bits 14pc for 60-80

Sounds a bit pricey for a 14 piece set. Yeah they're cool looking, but I think they would be hell to try and re-sharpen.

 

[hondacivic247]

Think I'm just going to get the Champions they seem pretty good. When I get them I'll do a review of how they do. What's the difference between jobbers and mechanics. I'm use to a normal to me size bit like in a dewalt case drill bit set

 

[uart]

Think I'm just going to get the Champions they seem pretty good.

Yeah they're probably pretty good. BTW, was that $80 for a 21 piece set or for a 29 piece set? If it's only the 21 piece set then maybe look at the Norseman 29 piece for about the same price.

When I get them I'll do a review of how they do.

Cool thanks.

What's the difference between jobbers and mechanics. I'm use to a normal to me size bit like in a dewalt case drill bit set

Mechanics length is slightly shorter than jobber.

The basic idea is that the shorter the drill bit then typically the stronger it is. So they flex a little less and are less likely to break.

"Jobber" is supposed to mean like a "jack of all trades" kind of thing. As in a good all round compromise between length and stiffness for a range of jobs.

"Stub" (also called screw machine length) drills are the shortest and therefore the strongest and most rigid. They work best for drilling metal on a drill press, but are often too short (eg access problems) for more general purpose work.

"Mechanics" length is meant to be compromise between the two above. In practice they're usually just a little shorter and more rigid than jobber length.

"Extra long" (which interestingly are often referred to as "aircraft length") drill bits are longer than jobber.

 

[motofool33]

ive got the norsemans and they rock, i was at a buddies place and he was pressing so hard to drill this piece of metal with his harbor freight/northern tool bits i had a good chuckle he was wore out and hadn't even got through the first hole yet. i grabbed my norseman's and they blasted through it like butter it was very comical.

 

[hondacivic247]

I'll have to take a look at those noresmans. We're they cobalt bits?

 

[motofool33]

I'll have to take a look at those noresmans. We're they cobalt bits?

They are the super magnums

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[uart]

I'll have to take a look at those noresmans. We're they cobalt bits?

They are the super magnums

Like these ones:

- http://www.ebay.com/itm/44170-Norse...167280?hash=item25a00f9b30:g:qmAAAOSw9N1VsTkd

or

- http://www.ebay.com/itm/66820-Norse...332136?hash=item46449516e8:g:cX0AAOSw4UtWRkI1

 

[TomB19]

I have the Champion Brute Platinums. They are the best drill bits I've ever had.

If you're coming from Home Depot drill bits (Ridgid is the best of HD bits, IMO), you will love them.

As best I can tell from YouTube videos and online reviews, the Norseman are a good step up from the Champions.

If you happen to be a Canadian, you may have trouble finding Norseman in Canada. The only place I have found them is KMS but KMS has them at a similar price to the Champions and they come in a metal index case, for those who prefer that format. I actually like the round plastic Champion container but the old school index case is kind of cool.

 

[motofool33]

I have the first link uart,

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[hondacivic247]

I made out good on my birthday yesterday got $80 bucks in ebay gift cards from my girlfriend and her parents. I jumped on ebay and ordered a set of the champion brute platinum bits 29pc kit in mechanic length as I prefer the hex shank over the round, the round slips in my m18 fuel drill, the dewalt's I have are a hex shank on the larger bits and never slip. I got the kit on sale for $89.99 with free shipping, so in the end it only cost me $9.00 of my own money. I need to still order a thing of champion cutting paste to keep them cool. I almost got the jobber length but went with the mechanic for the fact there shorter and stronger and if I ever need a longer bit I'll buy a single bit.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

If you are routinely working with metal I'd invest in a used drill press before I worried about bits. A good set of bits will cost about the same as an old drill press.

 

[hondacivic247]

I would love a old/vintage drill press, it's not the money it's the space my garage is tight as it is and my work bench/welding table is only 36" long. I either need a upright tank to replace my 80 gallon quincy 325 to free up 4ft of room or a larger house with a wprk shop out back which is ideal but won't happen for another 5 or so years

 

[evintho]

I'll probably get flamed for this but, all this talk about high end drill bits just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unless you're a machinist doing precision work a set of cheap twist drill bits and a Drill Doctor will keep you in good sharp bits for years.

I have an Allied drill bit index, a set of Irwin unibits and a couple hundred loose drill bits I've collected over the years. I drill steel nearly every day and have never been at a loss for a drill bit. I use RapidTap for lube and after I've used a bit 10-12 times and it starts losing it's cutting edge, I throw it in a bucket for sharpening. After a few months I spend a half hour resharpening the bits and store 'em in a nut and bolt organizer. Drill Doctor is the bomb! There's always have a sharp bit at the ready!

 

[hondacivic247]

I may got a drill doctor down the road I tried using a Dremel and a cut off wheel to sharpen a bit and ended up ruining the bit.

 

[hondacivic247]

Finally got the drill bits and they do look nice but not as nice as kobalt or titanium bits, but it's just looks I haven't tried them yet cause I ran into alot if issues with ebay and the gift cards I was given so I may have to send the bits back and have them reship them to me again.

 

[uart]

I'll probably get flamed for this but, all this talk about high end drill bits just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I have an Allied drill bit index, a set of Irwin unibits and a couple hundred loose drill bits I've collected over the years.

Yeah if you can sharpen your own drill bits then it's a bit of a game changer. Still, I'll bet that a lot of those "couple of hundred" were originally fairly high quality to begin with - at least compared to many of the cheap imported drill bits available these days. I've seen some cheap imported "gold" coated drill bits that are just so much garbage, that drill doctor or not, they're just not going to cut it.

So if someone doesn't have the time or the inclination to collect good quality old drill bits from yard sales etc, or if they can't resharpen them, then it does make sense for them to buy a good quality new set.

Personally I don't have a drill doctor, but I can sharpen regular 118 degree point bits reasonably well on a bench grinder. I agree that no matter how higher quality you buy or how much you spend, sooner or later you're going to need to sharpen them.

 

[hondacivic247]

Used the drill bits today to mount my 1950 Wilson 3 1/2 bullet vise to my welding table. I drilled pilot holes then stepped the bit up but I noticed when doing this the bit would grab real hard and twist, I put a ding in the edge of the split point cause of that.

These bits don't produce large spirals like the dewalt gold ferrous bits I had, they produce smaller chunks of metal for the most part which from what I gathered online is better as it helps keep the bit cool. I want to play with the bits more and see if they perefer not to have pilot holes. I cut through 1/2 steel like butter on some holes. I also am using these in a Milwaukee m18 fuel drill not a drill press so I try to keep the rpms lower and not burn the bit up.

 

[uart]

Used the drill bits today to mount my 1950 Wilson 3 1/2 bullet vise to my welding table. I drilled pilot holes then stepped the bit up but I noticed when doing this the bit would grab real hard and twist, I put a ding in the edge of the split point cause of that.

As you've found, trying to enlarge an existing hole can be really hard on a drill bit. They definitely want to bit in and bind, and it really is a major source of breakage and chipping. So you've got to be careful not to pilot with too larger size. I generally try not to exceed about 25% of the final size when drilling a through pilot.

Of course it's easy on a drill press, where you've got lots of pressure and control, and much of the time you don't even need a through pilot. However it can be a harder balance to achieve (required drill pressure vs size of pilot) when you're using a hand drill. If you can though, try to keep the pilot to no more than about 25% of the final diameter.

 

[hondacivic247]

I read somewhere online if using a pilot to keep it at 1/8 for all size holes, so I tried it last night and it worked fine. I'm thinking of buying a vintage champion wall mount manual drill press to mount next to my welding table there very cool looking with all the gears and cast iron. Think they were made back in the 1920's or 40's

 

[uart]

I read somewhere online if using a pilot to keep it at 1/8 for all size holes, so I tried it last night and it worked fine.

So what size pilot were you using when you were having problems with the bits grabbing? (and what final diameter were you drilling).

 

[hondacivic247]

I don't remember I was just testing them and grabbed whatever. I noticed dewalt makes 2 different types of titanium bits the pilot points and what they call a speed tip. Lowes only carries the speed point and home depot only carries the pilot points. I may grab a set of the gold ferrous for 9.99 can't open wrong with them. I tested them again vs the champions and there well used it drilled a hole faster... which is disappointing that I paid $90 and 10$ bits out perform them

 

[LumpyMusic]

I use the Champion BPs a lot when they come in a set of pilot drill + tap. EXCELLENT drills and excellent taps. I drill into hot and cold rolled mild steel a lot. The BPs are definitely up to the task. Post drilling inspection always shows a bit in better condition than any Ti coated drill, el cheapo to very expensive.

I like 'em.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[hondacivic247]

I'm ordering a set of titanium bits to see how they do compared to the champions and the dewalt gold ferrous.

I highly recommend no onexception ever buy erwin tools there all **** I had a 2 price plier set like the knipex cobras and I just broke the nose right off bending some thin gauge mild steel. Luckily I got a lot of gift cards so I'm snatching up a 3pc set of channel lock pliers cause I like them being USA made over the knipex cobras and have had good luck with my current needle nose and cutters by them and for $37 shipped can't go wrong

 

[uart]

I don't remember I was just testing them and grabbed whatever.

Yeah well if you were just expanding some random size to some other slightly larger random size then it's no surprise you had troubles. Enlarging holes in steel with a hand drill and regular twist drill bits is not many people's idea of fun.

I may grab a set of the gold ferrous for 9.99 can't open wrong with them. I tested them again vs the champions and there well used it drilled a hole faster... which is disappointing that I paid $90 and 10$ bits out perform them

What type of points do you have on your dewalt gold ferrous set? The pilot point ones work ok but will be very difficult to resharpen when they're dull. I'm not sure what their "speed point" is, but from what I can see they look like a regular split point.

 

[hondacivic247]

The gold ferrous are pilot points the speed tips on the titanium look like a split point. The gold ferrous are really a great bit when you can get a 14pc set for 9.99.

I do agree I doubt they can be resharpnend but I've had them for a year drilling through all sorts of steel and aluminum and there still cutting like new, I did burn some up by mistake not using lube but now that I do they keep going.
I still am unsure if I should get the titanium pilot points or the gold ferrous this time around, I know once the titanium wears off there junk or maybe I'll just get both and have lots of drill bita for the next couple years.

I'm going to snag a 3pc set of the channel lock pliers tonight and try to find some made in the USA Peterson 6r vise grips for welding. I truly believe in paying more for USA steel and manufacturing as the Japanese and China **** *****. My gear wrench combination wrench's blow on the open end almost broke a finger and Lost a eye to the open ends gouging and opening up so I try to only use the closed end on them

 

[uart]

The gold ferrous are pilot points the speed tips on the titanium look like a split point. The gold ferrous are really a great bit when you can get a 14pc set for 9.99.

Yeah that's definitely good value if you can pick them up for $9.99.

One reason they cut so efficiently is the flat profile (180 degree) on the shoulders of the main section of the drill. This gives the shortest possible cutting lip which improves cutting efficiency. Of course you can't do that (180 degree point) without the addition of the "bullet" point.

In addition to the bullet point, notice that they also have a "fast spiral" which gives them more rake angle. That also makes them cut pretty aggressively.

 

[hondacivic247]

Good to know I don't know a whole bunch about drill bits, I did order a set of dewalt titanium pilot points 21pc kit for $25 can't wait to see if they cut better then gold ferrous pilot points that are well used. I'm thinking of making room in my shed and buying a used old delta or Atlas drill press. I even saw an older sear's craftsman that you just put your hand drill into and make a drill press that looked pretty cool, I have a older milwaukee magnum hole shooter I seen someone use in one of them, only downside is your stuck with just 1 speed, if I could make it work with my milwaukee fuel cordless drill I have 2 speeds and can very the trigger, usually I leave it on the 2nd gear with about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and it seems to be the best for drilling I've found. 1st gear wide open was to slow.

Also grabbed some 3 in 1 oil while at Walmart for cutting fluid over wd40 or using costal premium hi-temp grease

 

[uart]

I did order a set of dewalt titanium pilot points 21pc kit for $25 can't wait to see if they cut better then gold ferrous pilot points that are well used.

I don't know much at all about those Dewalt drill bits. I've got a small selection of made in Germany pilot point bits that are similar looking but are a plain (bright uncoated) finish.

I find the marketing of those dewalt bits a little annoying though, they seem to concentrate way too much on the coating without any mention of the underlying HSS. I mean the way they often just call them "titanium" or "cobalt" is annoying to me. And I must have googled furiously for about 3 hours straight one time trying to find out what the heck "gold ferrous" is, and in the end I couldn't come up with anything other than it's just a Dewalt marketing term.

I know that when Dewalt first came out with that design of bits they were made in Germany and by most reports were pretty good quality. These days I think they're all made in China, so I wouldn't expect all that much from them. To be honest I think that if you used them like you did with the Triumph's, trying to enlarge holes and getting them jammed etc, you'd probably have a whole bunch of broken and bent bits sitting in front of you right now.

Anyway, they may work well for you. I'd be interested to know how they turn out after you've given them a bit of a workout.

 

[hondacivic247]

So like I said I would do a test on the brute platinum vs the deWalt gold ferrous pilot points, work was slow today with the holiday being tmrw so I went out back and tossed the bits in the drill press. It was a craftsman drill press floor model on the slowest speed. I also borrowed some brand new tialloy or type alloy brand bits looked like a 135 degree split point.

Conclouded that the pilot points leave a better looking hole along with drilling faster, they also take out long 6+ inch spirals vs small little chunks like the champion brute platinum and the TY Alloy.

The dewalt bit was also well used vs the other 2 brands being brand new. I tried different pressure and it didn't seem to make much a difference.

The 2 small spirals were from the champion bit but there the only 2 that it made.

I used 1/4 size bits, I did 1 pilot hole on the champion and none on the dewalts then just ran them all with no pilots even the big hole was done with no pilot.

 

[hondacivic247]

 

[hondacivic247]