Pavers Installation

[Fredro Starr]

Yet another question for the experts...

Considering installing paver stones as part of our new garage build. One installer has told me he can install them over the existing concrete since it is in such good shape as opposed to ripping out the concrete.

This seems a bit "nonstandard" to me and I am curious if anyone had any thoughts to share.

Thanks again!

 

[ssdave]

That will work fine, as long as you make provision for the water draining off of the slab underneath at the edges. In areas where it freezes, it's harder to make this work without the pavers heaving, but don't anticipate that's a problem in Atlanta.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Actually the "slab under " is best way to lay pavers. Use a one inch sand bed and some way to hold the border brick in where they will not get pushed out......and never have to worry about "sink holes " settling, ad much easier to screed the sand bed off on concrete in making ready for the laying of the pavers. A win/win. As said already, be sure of drainage. JMO.

 

[Kaizen]

yup fine. in freeze places like boston they do it but they have masons out replacing the exploded pavers every year. I def would spend the dough for polymeric sand as well.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I would never put them on the slab. That's not okay in any stone layers book. Rip it out and do it right.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I would never put them on the slab. That's not okay in any stone layers book. Rip it out and do it right.

At work 15 years ago our commercial masonry contractor laid a 50'x50' brick paver patio on top of 6 in. concrete slab and another mason 18 years ago around the other side of the building, laid a 80' x 80' on top of a rebar laden 6 in. slab. There was no problems of freezing damage in the 15 years I maintained them. I never had to deal with the sand bed sinking from the earth under it settling or rock bed under the bricks moving like that ... one does when putting pavers on a sand bed over compacted soil/rock. . ...

Both "pavers over slab " patios had no polymeric sand (good idea though) and both patios were laid with tight joints and good drainage on the slabs.... The only problem I ever had with the two brick patio's was when the trees they put in the one patio had small roots grow out under the brick and lifted the pavers. We do not have the cold that NY does of course... but we do have temps here that vary from -15 deg. F. and up to 18 " snows... enough aggressive weather to freeze patio pavers and lift/break them though .

 

[WhiffySpark]

A proper installation should have no sinking. People cheap out and hire the cheapest possible contractor and that's what happens. You're looking at at least $ 10sq ft for a basic pattern.

All concrete cracks. It's not if its when. I wouldn't lay anything over a concrete slab and neither will any contractor I know worth their salt.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I bet the owners of the building at my work whenever they did the 10 million dollar renovation and had the pavered patios done .....wish they had heard of you Whiffy and had used your company.

The architect sure did waste a lot of the owner's money putting down all of that concrete, when they could have just compacted dirt and rock, then put down a sand bed and pavers.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I bet the owners of the building at my work whenever they did the 10 million dollar renovation and had the pavered patios done .....wish they had heard of you Whiffy and had used your company.

The architect sure did waste a lot of the owner's money putting down all of that concrete, when they could have just compacted dirt and rock, then put down a sand bed and pavers.

Today it is frowned upon. Call icpi.org and ask for their opinion.

It's a hell of a lot more than just putting down rock and dirt

 

[gregtwojeeps]

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one Whiffy....

If the GC adheres to the installation requirements set forth by ICPI that I just read on their site, for the required prep to lay their pavers/stones.... the GC will most likely have more in excavation, materials and labor ...than he would just putting down a re-bar laden 4- 6 in. concrete slab....

While knowing the slab with rebar in it, even if the soil drops out from under it for whatever reason, the strength of the concrete will hold and not sink down. A compacted, tested and filled paver base done with spec graded rock and dirt that sinks later for whatever reason.... will have to be taken up and repaired. JMO . ....

 

[Slowgsr]

I did interlock where my hot tub sits, and around, etc up to the deck.
It's a huge huge amount of work - 2 years and zero settling yet

 

[WhiffySpark]

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one Whiffy....

If the GC adheres to the installation requirements set forth by ICPI that I just read on their site, for the required prep to lay their pavers/stones.... the GC will most likely have more in excavation, materials and labor ...than he would just putting down a re-bar laden 4- 6 in. concrete slab....

While knowing the slab with rebar in it, even if the soil drops out from under it for whatever reason, the strength of the concrete will hold and not sink down. A compacted, tested and filled paver base done with spec graded rock and dirt that sinks later for whatever reason.... will have to be taken up and repaired. JMO . ....

I understand what you're saying. I was always taught concrete cracks and deforms. if you have an existing slab you're going to be probably 4 inches higher than the grade now. That's something else to think about.

And yeah it's expensive to do it right. A good reason why I stopped doing it, everything just keeps getting cheaper and cheaper to the point where you're working for cost. No sense in that

 

[dfiler2]

I've seen it done with success a number of times, here's some pretty good information on how to approach it, including talking to a couple of local contractors and if it were me I think I would go talk to someone at a local patio/paver store.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Yet another question for the experts...

Considering installing paver stones as part of our new garage build. One installer has told me he can install them over the existing concrete since it is in such good shape as opposed to ripping out the concrete.

This seems a bit "nonstandard" to me and I am curious if anyone had any thoughts to share.

Thanks again!

Half of my avers are installed over concrete. They look great and have held up well.

 

[Fredro Starr]

Thanks all for the feedback.

I spoke with a few local retailers and they agree with the consensus. The pavers will be fine over the concrete. They advised I adhere to proper installation techniques for the stones not installed over concrete to reduce the possibility of too much settling.

Happy holidays!

 

[WVBrady]

...I def would spend the dough for polymeric sand as well.

Out of curiosity, I looked up "polymeric sand" and found that there is apparently some problem with the newer, "green type".

http://stonehengebpl.com/polysweep-technicseal-polymeric-sand/

 

[J king]

I did a patio and walk with pavers over concrete. Had curbs like edging poured at the same time to hold pavers in place 15 years and not one problem with them.a lot of drains installed at the time. Contractor stuck aluminum cans in pour flush with top of pour. When done and setup he knocked the top out and punched a rod thru bottom. Some gravel and finished. Looked great. Also poured a second tier around house at side and across patio also with a curb. Drains installed also. Live in NE Ohio and not any problems with ice and cracking..



Have front walk done the same

 

[manwithtools]

Thanks all for the feedback.

I spoke with a few local retailers and they agree with the consensus. The pavers will be fine over the concrete. They advised I adhere to proper installation techniques for the stones not installed over concrete to reduce the possibility of too much settling.

Happy holidays!

Just out of curiosity, where do they think these pavers over concrete are going to settle too? Doesn't the concrete need to go somewhere first?

I'm getting ready to have about 1000 sq ft of pavers installed on raw ground and I see where they could settle in my installation. However I've got concrete that is 40 years old that has not gone anywhere and I'll bet large that it's not going anywhere soon.

 

[csp]

That advice was for the pavers NOT installed over concrete. Sounds like some of the OPs pavers will sit on concrete and some will not.

 

[James-W]

I don't think pavers are used all that much around here, at least I don't see them very often. Kind of like brick roads, I don't see them very much either anymore. When I was a kid bricks were used quite a bit as city streets. Now, I can only think of a couple houses here in town where they have pavers and I can't think of any city streets in the nearby towns that have brick for roads. Funny how times change.

 

[manwithtools]

That advice was for the pavers NOT installed over concrete. Sounds like some of the OPs pavers will sit on concrete and some will not.

Right you are, I read right over that detail. Sorry about that.

 

[JimVonBaden]

That advice was for the pavers NOT installed over concrete. Sounds like some of the OPs pavers will sit on concrete and some will not.

As I posted above, part of my pavers are on concrete, with an inch or so of sand in between, and part on the ground. The ground has 16+ inches of compacted crushed concrete, 2+ inches of sand then the pavers. Neither has moved in nearly three years.

 

[Fredro Starr]

As I posted above, part of my pavers are on concrete, with an inch or so of sand in between, and part on the ground. The ground has 16+ inches of compacted crushed concrete, 2+ inches of sand then the pavers. Neither has moved in nearly three years.

That is good to hear.

Thank you

 

[Kaizen]

Out of curiosity, I looked up "polymeric sand" and found that there is apparently some problem with the newer, "green type".



http://stonehengebpl.com/polysweep-technicseal-polymeric-sand/

Who the hell would want it to soften? Can't say what brand mine is but still solid after many New England winters.


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