Dodge caravn transmission gurus help:>

[ozzy214]

Ok this is my bosses deal. He built the unit and no reverse. I had assumed that if you unplug the solenolid pack that you would still get no reverse. So unplugged it and still no good. So obviously internal. Im also under the assumption that possibly the solenoid pack controls reverse, but not sure.

Maybe someone can clarify this as Im confused.

Heres the short story. Van came in no move, no reverse. Took it apart and planetaries blown apart. Farely common with caravns. So my boss put a new planetary in and back in the van it went. It was only a repair job, not a rebuild. Still no reverse. So he decided to try another solenoid pack and valave body. Still no good. So out it came for the second time. This time he went though replaced a drum, the solenoid pack again and something else. Air checked everything and all drums, clutches worked. Went back in and still no reverse. This is where I came in checking wiring and electronics to see if I can find something, but both of my theories are shot.

Now he wants it out a third time to change the case over. Someone clarify wtf is going on. I know I get paid by the hour, but getting tired of pulling the damn thing twice in a row. I have a hard time believing a bad case would cause a no reverse situation.

My belief is you should get fwd and reverse without the solenoid pack plugged in right? Or am I wrong? Someone please clarify as to what to look for before Im stuck pulling for a third time.

Said vehicle in question is a 97 caravan 3.3..4 speed trans

 

[Tarheelgarage]

2nd gear and reverse are hydraulic; no electronics involved in those positions.

 

[ozzy214]

Ok. The theory that my boss portrayed is that the solenoid pack controls reverse. You unplug it and it has reverse, then the pack is bad. If you unplug it and still no reverse then its internal. Is this wrong or right? Maybe I should have made myself clearer..LOLZ!

Anyway what could be the issue since all internals checked out good the second time around? Hard to believe a case can cause no reverse but he seems to think so.,

 

[B&H]

You don't need the solenoid pack for reverse. If you don't believe it, the next time you have another one in, remove the connector and try it.

At this point, I'd cut my losses and install a reman unit right from Chrysler. A case??!!

 

[hydramatic]

input shell rung off or rev input drum seals are bad...your boss does not know what he`s doing..call the tech line in atlanta..there not free..1-800-241-2910..

 

[ozzy214]

Like I said he air checked everything on the bench and it all tested fine. All clutches grab on whatever circuit. I guess. I dunno. Im not a rebuilder. But thats what he said. So apparently he missed something. Oh well I guess I will pull it out a third time and let him put a junkyard case in with some goodies from the old unit and we shall see what happens.

I was thinking valve body or reverse servo, but apparently that was checked or replaced. He also did change the drum. I did watch him check the fwd drum with air while it was hooked to the pump and it moved out and back as it should.

He is a good builder of 20 plus years, but guess he fumbled on this. Thanks!

 

[Blown71X]

2 clutches are required for reverse in a 604/41TE
Low/reverse which is in the very rear of the case
Reverse clutch in the input hub assembly.

The Low/reverse is applied in Reverse,Neutral and 1st
Reverse clutch is applied in reverse only

Low/reverse has an accumulator in the case (next to park pawl)


Have either of you driven it ?
Does it upshift correctly with everything connected? If yes then the L/R clutch is ok, if not then be looking at the accumulator seal rings or the L/R piston retainer.

For some reason i`ve personally seen several people screw up the reverse clutch install, which I just don`t get...it is a simple 2 disc one steel setup and is the last set to go in the input hub.

In reality you guys need to toss a pressure guage on the tap ports for both the R and L/R and see what the pressures are BEFORE you tear it out again...You are wasting time and money guessing.

Looking at the front of the case under the solenoid pack....Low reverse is the 6th one from the left
reverse is the 3rd one from the left.

Both should have 180`ish to 200`ish psi while in reverse.

My belief is you should get fwd and reverse without the solenoid pack plugged in right? Or am I wrong?

You are correct, you will have 2nd gear and reverse with the pack unplugged, basicly the same as "limp mode"


Yea i`ve been doing nothing but mopar trans`s for 25 years

Rick

 

[ironroad 9c1]

first mistake was buying that POS.

 

[Blown71X]

first mistake was buying that POS.

Well that was real helpful.......dipchit

 

[tdkkart]

Well that was real helpful.......dipchit

I thought it, but didn't verbalize.........

 

[KenS]

It's totally a shame Chrysler chose to mate its superb 3.3 liter engine-- easily good to 200K (although the rear bank of plugs were a mild challenge and the fuel rails had a tendency to rot)-- with the miserable A604.

Then again, it was job insurance for Blown71X.

 

[Blown71X]

It's totally a shame Chrysler chose to mate its superb 3.3 liter engine-- easily good to 200K (although the rear bank of plugs were a mild challenge and the fuel rails had a tendency to rot)-- with the miserable A604.

Then again, it was job insurance for Blown71X.

Yea I heard that...unfortunally The 26 years i`ve been at this dealer I have been THE only one that can do transmissions so every single one that has come thru here I have done..And for the last 8 years have a unrepairable back injury from it..It ***** getting old

While you will never hear me argue that the early ones were garbage (ALL the 89`s and most of the 90`s died before 20k) they really did get a handle on it by the late 90`s......Do they still die ?..Yep..I have one on my bench as I type this, an 04, 268,000 miles on it (bought here new so I know the history)

I`m not so dedicated to a brand that i`m blinded and will be the first to call something junk if it is, Hell my wife is driving a BMW because of a couple of mopars we had that pissed me off....Has the Bimmer been trouble free ?..nope but nothing major. Mopar`s quality has come up ALOT, believe me I see it...Is it where it needs to be..not really.
There isn`t a brand out there that dosen`t have some issue.

I`ll quit rambling

Rick

 

[ozzy214]

Blown71x you have been the most helpful..thanks.

I ran everything by the boss and ultimately his decision was to use another case. Then build it up with parts lying around. So everything from the old unit is not used this time around. Entirely new set of everything including his case. He signs my paycheck, so I cant comment.

But I will say this. He did replace the accumalator and seals. I know for a fact he didnt install the clutches wrong as hes been a builder for years. He is decent. Unlike one transmission shop I used to work for where units went in and out 2-3x till the builder got it right. This guy knows whats he doing and normally when it goes in, it's fine. No issues. This is is just a oddball problem...probaly somethign stupid. I know also he did try another valve body, drum etc. I also learned that it wont go out of second and there is no reverse. So there is a chipmunk in the woodpile somewhere lol.

Oh well. Makes it easier. New unit will be ready and it will be a complete swap in and out. His theory is he wasted enough time on a repair job to replace rear planetaries and its cheaper and faster to start over with all new/used parts, case, etc.

But thanks for the suggestions. Guess we will never know what actually went wrong. Now If I could figure out my side work caravan that neutrals when it gets hot and goes back in gear after you shut/start it again, then I will be rolling in some cash..lol./

 

[ozzy214]

Well the boss assembled a "new" unit out of another case and some spare parts he had lying around. Only thing he used from the problem child was the valve body. Couldnt find the spare lol. New unit is working a treat, no issues. So I assume he was right and it was a bad case after all. Must be a cracked fluid passage or something caused by the planetaries blowing apart. Oh well. Hes gonna rip all the good stuff out and give the old case to the junkman. Just a update to anyone that cares and thanks for the suggestion. Will remeber them for future issues.