Electric bill doubled in 1 month

[aort11]

It just doesn't seem right to me so I figured I would see if anyone had any ideas.

November 2015 Bill - $132.23

10/22-11/20 (29 Days) - Previous 39991, Actual 41077 for 1086 KWH 37.44 KWH per day
Average Temp 50 Degrees F

November 2014 - 1461KWH, Average temp 39 Degrees F

December 2015 Bill - $267.29

11/20-12/28 (38 Days) - Previous 41077, Actual 43479 for 2402 KWH 63.2 KWH per day
Average Temp 43 Degrees F

December 2014 - 1889KWH, Average temp 35 Degrees F


I realize it was a longer period between meter readings, but it was 25.7 KWH more per day and only a 7 degree difference outside. Thats almost a steady 9 amp load 24 hrs a day.

My house is all electric with a geothermal water furnace with an open loop. I clamped the two main feeders in the panel with the heat off and only had 5 amp draw on one leg and a 7 amp on the other with normal things like tv, computer, lights etc on. So I don't believe the water heater or fridge, etc has gone rouge. The one thing that I did question is the furnace. I had to get a new thermostat over the summer. AC worked fine, so I didn't think anything of it. The geothermal has an electric element for emergency heat. With the normal heat on, I clamped the backup feed and the main furnace feed and each leg of both circuits was around 5 amps, so 20 total. I don't believe the backup feed should be supplying any current unless the emergency heat is on. The thermostat does show when the "AUX" heat is on, but it wasn't enabled during the first test. I then switched it to emergency heat and it didn't change the current readings at all in the panel, both circuits had 5 amps per leg.

Here is a link to my thermostat manual

Thermostat Manual

Link to furnace manual

Furnace Manual

Here are some pictures of the furnace.

This is how it is hooked up now.

Furnace-----Thermostat

R ----------- R
C ----------- C
Y1 ---------- Y1
Y2 ---------- Y2
W ----------- W2/Aux
O ----------- O/B,W
G ----------- G
LO ----------

The thermostat is set to "Heat pump: Heat pump with backup or auxiliary heating". The manual says it is a two stage heat with emergency backup (3rd stage), but the sticker on the furnace cover only has one stage in the logic section. If I set the thermostat to two stage heat and 1 stage cool, there is no emergency option on the tstat.

I was just wondering if someone could verify how this should be hooked up. The only thing I could think of for the extra power usage is the backup heating element running when it shouldn't be.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Sounds like something is wrong with the heatpump and you're running the electric heat more. The average temp on the bill only dropped 4* so I can't put the blame on more heat usage.

Tommy

 

[Rookie2]

What is Actual ? You should verify by reading your own meter and compare readings. I would also read it several times over 24 hours to see if you are actually using more power or if it was an error in reading the meter.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Some utilities in bad weather will just estimate the bill for one month and then correct the charges when they actually read the meter. Ours will show Est some where on the bill but it is hard to find. Something is wrong because the emergency heat will draw a lot more than 5 amps, more like 30 amps or so. Sometimes the utility will supply "degree days" charts that are charts of how much heat you would need because of outside temp changes. This is figured on say 40 degree day would be 30 degree day heat as that is the amount difference from 70 that is the base line. For instance one December might have 4000 degree days and then this December probably 400 or so.. that would create a bill 10 times as high. All resistance electric heat is 1352 BTU's per kilowatt of electricity. A geothermal heat pump would produce around 4 (or more)times the BTU's per kilowatt if it is working correctly. In this example the heat pump would produce 5408 BTU's from a kilowatt. A good air to air unit is in the range of 3 times, but that rating is at say 50 outside temp, at 30 outside it might reach 2 times. Geothermal keeps the outside number the same so its efficiency the same, not based on outside temp.

 

[Shiftless]

Rookie and Milton (and Tommy too!) are giving you excellent advice!
Read the meter yourself to verify. I bet all your extra charges reflect use of the resistance heat in your heat pump. Resistance heat is expensive!

Make sure your neighbor doesn't have an orange extension cord running to that outlet on the side of your garage feeding his hot tub!

 

[Mustang51js]

Check your bill to see if the rates changed also

 

[DC73]

Agree with the suggestions to first verify that the meter read was accurate. Meter readers are pretty good but it's easy to transpose numbers. I suppose it's possible they read Nov too low and it caught up with you in Dec but the Nov 15 vs Nov 14 are consistent considering the average temps so I'd be more suspicious that Dec was wrong.

Average temp is an okay way to compare month to month but it's best to use heating degree days (or cooling degree days for summer months) and then chart kWh per heating degree day. That'll do a better job of factoring out weather differences. If the utility doesn't provide degree day data, you can get it from the National Weather Service website.

But, as already said, it's quite possible the problem is that the electric backup heat for the heat pump is running when it shouldn't. I've seen this numerous times.

DC

 

[wrenchMONKEY_]

Don't feel to bad. My Natural Gas bill this monrth was $89.31

However, of that amount, my 9.34 GJ of NG cost me $21.16. The other $68.15 you ask... fees and admin charges. I used to keep the house set around 19C, but with prices like that I might aswell be a bit warmer and keep it at 22C to keep the wife happy. Lord knows the gas costs me nothing. (yes I know the furnace fan will use more electricity)

Long story short. Utility companies are crooks.

 

[aort11]

The actual means they actually read the meter and didn't just do an estimate. If it was, I would suspect a difference for the Jan bill. I just check the meter and its at 43760. The rate doesn't seemed to have changed, still right about $0.09 a KWH + fees. I flipped the DIP switch on the furnace that locks out the heat strip unless emergency heat is called for. How else would I be able to find that? I don't know why any current was going through the heat strip feed.

 

[FullRaceMerc]

Sometimes it is a reading error with analog meters. If the spinning pointers are at 38991 (almost 39091) look very much like & can be misread as 39901. It used to be that a bad reading was corrected on the read of the following month, & your total for the year was correct. Now the misread can push you into a higher tier rate for usage over a certain amount, throwing your actual amount paid for the year off.

If your meter is digital, then this is not nearly as likely.

It seems like you should check at least another month earlier, or maybe the previous year thru those months, to have a broader base to compare to.

 

[aort11]

It is a digital meter, so probably not a reading error.

 

[burger]

No idea about your heat pump. Is there any chance you have a well pump running 24/7?

 

[aort11]

I put the clamp on the well and it wasn't running. It isn't staying on if it is running more than usual. Like I said without heat on, I only read around 10 amps total for the house with normal things on. Makes me think it's the heat, but I'm not sure how to find it.

 

[Gidge]

The current regime keeps closing coal plants, this is what you get, comrade.

 

[DonPowers]

Do you have a septic system with a lift pump? If so, a stuck check valve in the system will cause ti to run excessively.

 

[larry_g]

How many years (months) history do you have in this house? If years what does last years billing look like?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Aceman]

10/22-11/20 (29 Days) - Previous 39991, Actual 41077 for 1086 KWH 37.44 KWH per day

11/20-12/28 (38 Days) - Previous 41077, Actual 43479 for 2402 KWH 63.2 KWH per day

I just check the meter and its at 47760.

You're up 4300 kwh in 3 days now. It's escalating....

 

[Pwrgeek]

If the meter truly says 47760 now and said 43479 three days ago something is wrong. Call your utility company and ask them to test the meter. Also ask for a recording meter (unless you already have a smart meter you can get the data from). Using 4300 kWh in three days would be highly abnormal unless you are growing a crop that isn't strictly legal in your basement.


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[frankush]

I'd call for service on the heat pump. It's the homes largest electrical draw. Between the water pump, compressor and fan, the draw is large enough. Add in the electric heat and it sky rockets. If the electric heat option is disabled, the unit is still trying to heat the house and all the other stuff continues to run.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You're up 4300 kwh in 3 days now. It's escalating....

4281Kwh / 72hrs = 59 kilowatts per hour. 59,000/ 240v = 248a constant load

Correct me if my math is wrong but thats one hell of a load!

What size service do u have?

Id say that there must be an issue with the meter!

Does your meter have a current read out on it? Mine does and it alternates between current and voltage.

 

[aort11]

I have a 400 amp 120/240v service. I just checked the meter and its at 43805 this morning. I think yesterday was 43760, not 47760. I just typed it wrong. So that is 326kwh in about 4 days. I don't know exactly when it was read. Still averaging about 81 kwh per day when November was 37kwh and December at 63kwh. December 2013 was 57.4 kwh per day, December 2014 was 57.2 kwh per day with average temps at 32 and 35 degrees. It is right around that right now. January 2014 was 69.3kwh per day with an average of 26. January 2015 was 71 kwh at an average of 25 degrees. For some reason it still seems higher than normal.

 

[86turbodsl]

The current regime keeps closing coal plants, this is what you get, comrade.

We haven't even scratched the surface of what electricity will cost in a year or two for most of us that don't live in hydro-electric areas.

Dad was a power company engineer, and has laid out some scary scenarios for me.

 

[toplessHO]

We haven't even scratched the surface of what electricity will cost in a year or two for most of us that don't live in hydro-electric areas.

Dad was a power company engineer, and has laid out some scary scenarios for me.

yes looking more and more attractive to supplement via solar especially for us in the sunshine state

 

[toplessHO]

carefully go into panel and meter the load on each and every breaker
write them down and check all at various times of day.
Supplement heat is a killer on KWH,especially if the relay is sticking

 

[Pwrgeek]

I have a 400 amp 120/240v service. I just checked the meter and its at 43805 this morning. I think yesterday was 43760, not 47760. I just typed it wrong. So that is 326kwh in about 4 days. I don't know exactly when it was read. Still averaging about 81 kwh per day when November was 37kwh and December at 63kwh. December 2013 was 57.4 kwh per day, December 2014 was 57.2 kwh per day with average temps at 32 and 35 degrees. It is right around that right now. January 2014 was 69.3kwh per day with an average of 26. January 2015 was 71 kwh at an average of 25 degrees. For some reason it still seems higher than normal.

Can you post a picture of your meter. Based on that I should be able to tell you if it is gathering data that your power company could give you to help narrow down what could be happening. 320 kWh in four days is still high compared to your historical usage.


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[DC73]

Don't feel to bad. My Natural Gas bill this monrth was $89.31

However, of that amount, my 9.34 GJ of NG cost me $21.16. The other $68.15 you ask... fees and admin charges.

What's probably happening here is that your gas company, like most, is a distribution company. They buy gas from the commodities market and resell it to their customers. It's generally a heavily regulated business and they make little to nothing on the gas itself. A large portion of the remainder of the fee is overhead (i.e. the cost of delivery) which includes the pipelines, meters, employees, billing operations, call center, profit, etc.

DC

 

[aort11]

Here is a picture of the meter.

Here is something weird about the usage.

10/22 to 10/23 was 45kwh. 10/23 to 11/16 was only 37 kwh, then four days later on 11/20 it was 1086 kwh. Then no reading until 12/28 and it was 2402, which is the highest its ever been.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is that what the PoCo provided u?

Why are some dates doubled?

Something is strange here!

 

[LS6 Tommy]

All the highest usages were during heating season except 4/24 & 7/27. They're also relatively close to the same usage.

Tommy

 

[purplezr2]

Funny, Hunt Technoglies was started near where I grew up. They developed the unit that sends the meter reading back to POCO

 

[aort11]

I got that chart from my online account from the poco.

I agree they should be higher in heating seasons, but this was a very mild December compared to the rest and it was still the highest it's ever been.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

K. It was just an observation. You can't really make a comparison without degree days, usage and demand charts. I have to do one every day. For 16 buildings, some of which have more than one service...

Tommy

 

[wssix99]

How many years (months) history do you have in this house? If years what does last years billing look like?

This is the real question here. Is this just your second year in the house?

Your electric bill is not shocking - especially for a conventionally constructed house running a geothermal heat pump.

With that technology, you take it up the *** (a little) from December to March but laugh at the rest of the world during the summer at your astronomically low cooling bills. You are heating your house with 55 degree water, so as the ambient temperature outside drops, that gets harder (and more expensive) to do.

Yes, your electric bill is much higher, but if you were paying the gas company for the heat, you'd be paying even more money.

Your December usage, per day, was a little higher this year vs. last but I'm not sure you can analyze too much in to that without collecting more data over the coming months.

Food for thought #1:
Maybe you have a spouse that was heavier on the thermostat this year? Maybe you had a full house for Thanksgiving? etc.?

Food for thought #2:
Another thing to consider here is that you are assuming that you are creating heat in an inefficient way. What if (instead) you have a new source of heat loss somewhere in your home this year?

Food for thought #3:
My winter geothermal electric bills are similar to yours. In looking at my bills in spring/fall, when I'm not heating or cooling at all and just running my fan - I found that I use more electricity to run the fan than I do to pump heat through the well. Is your system water to air or water to water? If you are water to air, you may look at your fan usage. If you have a fan and are running it all the time, that will lead to a lot of electricity usage. (Likewise, any change in how you use the fan will do the same.)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I got that chart from my online account from the poco.

I agree they should be higher in heating seasons, but this was a very mild December compared to the rest and it was still the highest it's ever been.

Why is it that some dates have 2 reads?

and other months have reads a few days apart?

My PoCo reads my meter exactly ONCE per month...

This IS interesting for me. I was always under the impression that geo thermal was way more efficient. During the winter months we use around 600Kwhs. Summer with AC going its 1200-1400Kwhs. We even have an electric dryer. Thought about switching to a NG dryer during the summer months.

 

[gtae07]

All we have in our house is electric resistance heat. I'm glad this winter has been mild so far (though we've even been running the A/C a bit...).

 

[wssix99]

This IS interesting for me. I was always under the impression that geo thermal was way more efficient.

It is way more efficient - in certain parts of the world.

A geothermal system is either a water-to-water or a water-to-air "heat pump." It is just about as efficient as a traditional air-to-air heat pump that one of your neighbors in Modesto may have.

The thing is, the OP can't use a air-to-air heat pump in Indiana because the winters get too cold for one. (It's really hard to pull heat out of -30 degree air on the really cold days.) With geothermal, we always have a heat source of 55 degrees, which allows us to use "heat pump" technology.

Compared to gas or oil fired furnaces we'd have to use otherwise, these systems are more efficient. In the summer, when we are cooling our houses with 55 degree water, they are WAY WAY WAY more efficient than anything. (Even an air-to-air heat pump that would be cooling a house with 90 degree outside air.)

Even though the winter heading would be a draw and the summer cooling cycle would be more efficient for you in Modesto, the additional cost of the geothermal well would take a much longer time to pay off than it does for folks in the midwest or far north where we have greater temperature extremes. (So, I wouldn't expect to see a lot of geothermal HVAC around your area.)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah Ive never heard of geothermal in use anywhere in California.

So it has to do with the climate.

I had an old heat pump from the 80s at my last place. I prefer NG however.

Thx for the info!

 

[Pwrgeek]

I would put a call in to your power company. That meter has a lot more demand data inside it than what they are surfacing to you online. I would just get someone from engineering on the phone and explain what is going on to them. They should be able to give you a full download info the interval demand data for the last month or two. That would tell you if it is a constant problem like a heat loss leak or rogue device vs something intermittent.

Also have you had someone out to look at your HVAC system. If for some reason it has lost its geo loop and is only using the strip heat that could be the issue.


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[zmaxmotorsports]

Id put the amp probe on for a day and check it throughout the day at various times to see if theres any spikes in your actual usage,If not Id call the poco to check their meter.