Overhead power to garage....hard?

[DC_Gearhead]

So I have a detached garage and after looking at all options, I think an overhead line would be the best option.

Details are:

50' from the exterior wall to the garage
25' from exterior wall to 200amp home panel
Installing a 100amp panel in garage
Both buildings are brick.

I won't be applying for a permit or getting an inspection, but I will be having an electrician make the connection at both panels.

I want to do all of the work myself, but not sure what I need to do. I want to do it right.

Can someone give me some pointers? I have tools and common sense.....that's about it.

Below is my garage from the back porch. It's a row house.

 

[pattenp]

Even if not having it inspected you need to install it to code. There are clearance requirements from windows, roof line, and height requirement above ground. So you just can't willy-nilly string the wire from one building to another. Connections to the panels is the easy part.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

Exactly. That is why I need help with my plan. Never said I wanted to willy-nilly string wire over.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

U would need 2 weatherheads, 2 risers, 2 insulators/wire clamps, and quadraplex service drop wire.

Honestly, an overhead feeder can be more work than going underground.

Any reason why u dont want to go underground?

 

[pattenp]

When you start off by saying you aren't getting a permit or having inspections is setting yourself up to take shortcuts and not doing it right. Personally I'd go underground if possible.

Exactly Wylie on the more work.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

Personally I would go underground as well, but too much work. I do not have a normal house like most of you on here. I have a row home with a row backyard. The back of my house is 14' wide. 10' of that is a walkdown set of concrete stairs (can't put conduit in there). The other 4' is where my heatpump and patio are. If I were to do underground, I would need to remove my heat pump and trench under 12' of my patio. Not feasible. That is why I want to do the overhead. I could run conduit up the wall to the roof and do a line across to the roof of my garage. In my book, that is no big deal.

If I had a typical house with a yard and space around my house, I would do underground. I don't have that.



Over to the left is where my heatpump is. That is a 10' concrete slab there from the edge of the building to the back wall.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

When you start off by saying you aren't getting a permit or having inspections is setting yourself up to take shortcuts and not doing it right. Personally I'd go underground if possible.

Exactly Wylie on the more work.

That is an assumption you made. I am asking for help to install it right. If I didn't care about doing it right, I wouldn't be asking for advice.

 

[pattenp]

That is an assumption you made. I am asking for help to install it right. If I didn't care about doing it right, I wouldn't be asking for advice.

Well.. if you care about doing it right then get the proper permit and inspections. If there is a problem with the wiring that causes a fire then you could be on the hook without the proper permit. Stuff happens. That's my advice.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

Well.. if you care about doing it right then get the proper permit and inspections. If there is a problem with the wiring that causes a fire then you could be on the hook without the proper permit. Stuff happens. That's my advice.

You give all kinds of advice on this forum for people to do work without a permit. Why not help me?

 

[pattenp]

You give all kinds of advice on this forum for people to do work without a permit. Why not help me?

Oh I don't have a problem giving you advice because of not taking out a permit. Most people don't come right out of the gate saying they are not getting a permit. Anybody who says they are not getting a permit where I know a permit is required I'll tell them the same thing. I'm familiar with DC and particularity seeing that you're in a row house environment you need to cover your ***. I'm more than happy to help where I can. I just think it is wise to take out a permit.

 

[pattenp]

So starting off fresh... have you figured out how to get the feeder from your main panel out through the wall to the outside and to a point where the riser needs to be installed to get the wire up to a weatherhead?

Do you want a full 100A feeder to the 100A sub-panel? Depending on your power needs 60A may be plenty.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

Oh I don't have a problem giving you advice because of not taking out a permit. Most people don't come right out of the gate saying they are not getting a permit. Anybody who says they are not getting a permit where I know a permit is required I'll tell them the same thing. I'm familiar with DC and particularity seeing that you're in a row house environment you need to cover your ***. I'm more than happy to help where I can. I just think it is wise to take out a permit.

My garage is old as hell and grandfathered in because of height. I have been warned that they will not allow me to install the panel on second floor of my carriage house because it can't be "occupied".

I'm more of a blunt person. Why beat around the bush and NOT be forthcoming about the permit intentions. In DC, I as the homeowner cannot pull the permit. I can't even replace a receptacle in the house. Drywall needs a permit. Permits are out of hand and I want to do this as inexpensively as possible. I need help making it to code.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

So starting off fresh... have you figured out how to get the feeder from your main panel out through the wall to the outside and to a point where the riser needs to be installed to get the wire up to a weatherhead?

Do you want a full 100A feeder to the 100A sub-panel? Depending on your power needs 60A may be plenty.

I have the route to the exterior wall figured out. I also have a set of core drill bits for the brick 18" long so they will make it inside. I have a 2" that should work. I figure I will install conduit up from my penetration up the wall to the weatherhead. I can access the roof pretty easy, so mounting a cable with insulator would be pretty short work. Then I can go over to the shop and do the same thing. I plan to install the sub panel on the same wall as I am landing the weatherhead/conduit.

In my shop I will have a 5hp compressor, plasma cutter, MIG, and typical lights and outlets. Only one thing operating at a time probably. 60A maybe good. What do you think?

 

[pattenp]

I think 60A will work, but you can always install larger gauge wire to give you some headroom. For the overhead service drop I recommend 2-2-2-2 Quadruplex Service Drop and 2-2-2-4 SER for the service entrance. This will cover you for up to 90A. To just have 60A max you need 4-4-4-4 Quad Service drop and 4-4-4-6 SER for service entrance. The 4-4-4-4 will obviously be easier to string between the house and shop. Wire sizes are for aluminum wire.

Here's a web site to get an idea of price for the wire.
http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/Duplex-Triplex-Quadruplex-Overhead-Service-Drop-Cable/
http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/SER/


*

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If youre trying to do this incognito, i think an underground feeder is less noticable than an overhead for obvious reasons.

AHJ have a habit of snooping around and if they see an overhead feeder that they can see wasnt there before by means such as google earth, then they will nail u hard with fines.

A former coworker of mine got nailed for putting up a flood light on his house without a permit. He found out that they drive around neighborhoods just watching and they also looked on google streetview and saw that the livht wasnt there previously.

Sounds like DC is a bunch of Nazis so u better watch out.

 

[pattenp]

Sounds like DC is a bunch of Nazis so u better watch out.

When I saw he's in the District was why I started out on the permit. You need a permit to do almost anything to your house.

 

[Slowgsr]

If youre trying to do this incognito, i think an underground feeder is less noticable than an overhead for obvious reasons.

AHJ have a habit of snooping around and if they see an overhead feeder that they can see wasnt there before by means such as google earth, then they will nail u hard with fines.

A former coworker of mine got nailed for putting up a flood light on his house without a permit. He found out that they drive around neighborhoods just watching and they also looked on google streetview and saw that the livht wasnt there previously.

Sounds like DC is a bunch of Nazis so u better watch out.

A flood light on a house got him in trouble? damn!

To the OP - don't go overhead, it's more work! Pull up your patio and get digging.

 

[Syberia]

A flood light on a house got him in trouble? damn!

It varies dramatically by area. The houses around here are all built in the '30s and '40s, and when we were looking to buy, we could barely find one that didn't have disclosed unpermitted work right on the sales listing. Thought about threatening to report a seller who was being a royal ***** to us for an unpermitted addition, the realtor said the county (outside city limits) won't do a thing. Found that out firsthand when we had our solar panels inspected; the inspector was here for about 5 minutes and completely ignored the outdoor kitchen that is obviously under construction and the open trench in the back yard.

That said, if at all possible, I'm going to cast another vote for underground. It's hidden, and if a tree falls over it won't rip the service mast off the side of both buildings. Could you post a pic of the back of the house, and maybe someone can figure something out?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

A flood light on a house got him in trouble? damn!

To the OP - don't go overhead, it's more work! Pull up your patio and get digging.

Yup and this was in the city of Manteca! Im sure DC is way tougher.

And yes overhead is a lot more work. I didnt even list everything that is needed.

On top of the overhead wire and hardware, he would need either SER SEU or individual conductors as Pattenp mentioned, split bolts, kearneys or another form of splicing terminal, along with tall enough ladders to get the drop wire high enough for proper clearances.

With a ditch witch and a shovel, the trenching can be done quick. And if the OP uses one cable type end to end, theres no need for splicing.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Could you post a pic of the back of the house, and maybe someone can figure something out?

Pic in post #6 is the back of the house with the patio. Patio looks like loose pieces, should not be that hard to pull up. Exit the house above ground and use a LB and drop down into the ground, Hand dig since there could be anything there as old as the place is.

Overhead is great till a falling limb rips the mast off the building and takes some bricks with it.

Go and buy a 4 inch trenching shovel

longest handle you can find, with a long blade, work great for trenching. Take pics of the open trench with tape measure showing depth in case anything ever comes of it, you can show what was done. Take lots of pics, save them on a disk and store for the future, but don't show anyone.

Charles

 

[DC_Gearhead]

My house was built in 1890. It was completely remodeled with all new services in 2012. Permits are an issue and people do turn each other in around here. I don't want to draw attention to myself, so I am rethinking the underground option. I do not agree at all that it will be easier. But I do think it would help me stay under the radar if I go that route.

Running overhead power to the only tall structure in the alley would draw attention. Digging in my back yard won't even be noticed.

This weekend, when it is light, I am going to do some additional looking to see how difficult it would be.

 

[pattenp]

Ok, my out of the box solution is to run RMC (Rigid Metal Conduit) along the fence and paint it brown.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My house was built in 1890. It was completely remodeled with all new services in 2012. Permits are an issue and people do turn each other in around here. I don't want to draw attention to myself, so I am rethinking the underground option. I do not agree at all that it will be easier. But I do think it would help me stay under the radar if I go that route.

Running overhead power to the only tall structure in the alley would draw attention. Digging in my back yard won't even be noticed.

This weekend, when it is light, I am going to do some additional looking to see how difficult it would be.

Well now that u posted pics, it does look like a good amount of hand digging on the patio. But a ditch witch will make the rest easy.

The labor would probably be about the same for either route. However, u have a lot of splices to make up with an overhead feeder- at least 8.

Where is your main service panel located?

 

[DC_Gearhead]

Well now that u posted pics, it does look like a good amount of hand digging on the patio. But a ditch witch will make the rest easy.



The labor would probably be about the same for either route. However, u have a lot of splices to make up with an overhead feeder- at least 8.



Where is your main service panel located?

Basement level.

 

[pattenp]

If you bury RMC it only needs 6 inches of cover.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

I just need to bite the bullet and wake up to the reality......overhead is not the answer. I just need to get creative on how I can avoid my heat pump, roof drain, and yard drain.

I'm going to post some pics tomorrow if can get home before it gets dark. Routing tips will be appreciated.

All jokes aside, after seeing my situation, I'll bet some of you will think to yourselves "overhead?" Haha

 

[Slowgsr]

Too bad you guys don't use teck down there much.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

If you bury RMC it only needs 6 inches of cover.

Good to know, but the digging isn't my big concern. The rental place a couple blocks away has a trencher to rent. It's the routing. You will probably look at it and say "no problem, just do ***", but I'm having a hard time figuring it out.

 

[Syberia]

If you bury RMC it only needs 6 inches of cover.

Until it rusts out.

 

[pattenp]

Until it rusts out.

I wasn't joking when I said to run RMC on the fence. Or sch80 PVC.

 

[404]

Running overhead power to the only tall structure in the alley would draw attention. Digging in my back yard won't even be noticed.

Of course. In DC bodies must need burying all the time. Probably a section on CL burial needed/offered.

A possibility would be to drill a horizontal bore underground from inside the cellar towards the garage without coming to the surface. Like people do to bore holes under side walks to install wire or water pipe. Line this bore with PVC conduit. The hard part I suppose would be to locate the other end at the garage. Depends on your soil.

 

[machsnell]

You don't have to do a drill bore shot. Just use a missile and air compressor.

Missile is 3 feet long and I just did two shots of 35 feet under a driveway and all you need to do is dig a trench on either end to start missile in.

Next to the house you would need a trench t9 watch for missile when it comes through and when you see it you just back it out of the hole from where it came.

Then use that hole and turn the missile around and shoot towards your garage. 3 holes and you can push in conduit or whatever you want.

Then use compressor to blow string thru pipe to pull your wire.

You can rent missile and air compressor fairly cheap. Or if you are cheap come borrow one of my compressors for the weekend. I am in NOVA just outside of DC.

That way you don't have to cut you concrete in your patio and re pour and mortar joints etc. You did say that was a concrete patio with. Flagstone correct? As one poster mentioned it did look like a sand type joint in one of the pics.

Missile is easy and you would be under the patio in 10 or 20 minutes after you dug the holes.

Or as pattenp said go above ground on fence if possible then you don't have to knock the rust off your shovel.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[DC_Gearhead]

Of course. In DC bodies must need burying all the time. Probably a section on CL burial needed/offered.

Haha. That's what I'm thinking.

 

[Dragfluid]

You don't have to do a drill bore shot. Just use a missile and air compressor.

Missile is 3 feet long and I just did two shots of 35 feet under a driveway and all you need to do is dig a trench on either end to start missile in.

Next to the house you would need a trench t9 watch for missile when it comes through and when you see it you just back it out of the hole from where it came.

Then use that hole and turn the missile around and shoot towards your garage. 3 holes and you can push in conduit or whatever you want.

Then use compressor to blow string thru pipe to pull your wire.

You can rent missile and air compressor fairly cheap. Or if you are cheap come borrow one of my compressors for the weekend. I am in NOVA just outside of DC.

That way you don't have to cut you concrete in your patio and re pour and mortar joints etc. You did say that was a concrete patio with. Flagstone correct? As one poster mentioned it did look like a sand type joint in one of the pics.

Missile is easy and you would be under the patio in 10 or 20 minutes after you dug the holes.

Or as pattenp said go above ground on fence if possible then you don't have to knock the rust off your shovel.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

You can pull it backwards fairly easily?
I've got a use for something like this. Thanks for putting it out there!

 

[404]

You don't have to do a drill bore shot. Just use a missile and air compressor.

Missile is 3 feet long and I just did two shots of 35 feet under a driveway and all you need to do is dig a trench on either end to start missile in.

Since I cannot be the only one who did not know this existed, here is a how to.

 

[machsnell]

You can pull it backwards fairly easily?
I've got a use for something like this. Thanks for putting it out there!

Yes it basically goes forward and reverse.

It is really easy and you can get for 2" and up to 4" conduit.

It is really cool and easy with tow behind air compressor.

Just make sure you put it at 2 feet to not raise the patio or a driveway. If at least 2 feet it won't push up drive.

Runs pretty straight at angle and elevation you start it unless it hits a rock and deflects slightly. Busts right thru small rocks.

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[machsnell]

Since I cannot be the only one who did not know this existed, here is a how to.

That's it.

And 404 I always enjoy your posts which tend to be humorous.

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[simpler=better]

I wasn't joking when I said to run RMC on the fence. Or sch80 PVC.

My solution as well. RMC + watertite fittings + brown paint.

Or, if you wanted to go weird, make a brick raceway to enclose a conduit along the edge of the fence. Reuse old bricks form craigslist to match the decor of the yard

 

[86turbodsl]

A former coworker of mine got nailed for putting up a flood light on his house without a permit. He found out that they drive around neighborhoods just watching and they also looked on google streetview and saw that the livht wasnt there previously.

Sounds like DC is a bunch of Nazis so u better watch out.

Thank God i live where i do. They could care less.

 

[Banjorear]

So I have a detached garage and after looking at all options, I think an overhead line would be the best option.

Details are:

50' from the exterior wall to the garage
25' from exterior wall to 200amp home panel
Installing a 100amp panel in garage
Both buildings are brick.

I won't be applying for a permit or getting an inspection, but I will be having an electrician make the connection at both panels.

I want to do all of the work myself, but not sure what I need to do. I want to do it right.

Can someone give me some pointers? I have tools and common sense.....that's about it.

Below is my garage from the back porch. It's a row house.

If you have any plans to sell this house, get the permit. For the $60 or so it will cost, it will save you money and aggravation in the end.