American vs. Swiss Files

[Bleugrass]

I'm curious and I couldn't find a thread on it here. I see its a difference in the fineness, with three grades from coarse to smooth in American, and eight grades in Swiss. Who actually needs that much precision or fineness? Would it be beneficial in engine repair?
As a side question, I'm searching for a quality set at a good value to touch all the bases. There's a trillion shapes of files, and I doubt they're all necessary or in use for the most part. I'll be using them primarily for engine repair. Any recommendations? I want mid-top tier, can't afford the best yet though . Good variety. I was looking at this for example: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0050EBJTM/?tag=atomicindus08-20, but i just started this search.

 

[four.cycle]

they don't make good "American made" files anymore.
Nicholson is all Hecho en Mexico.

you can find a little bit of US-made Nicholson NOS (new old stock) stuff on Ebay, but most of it is crazy priced.

there's a little bit of "Pferd" (German-made) stuff on Ebay, and most of what I saw there is higher than hell.

there's THIS guy (local here) who might make you a deal if you want to order some of his Pferd NOS stuff:

contact info:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5247146#post5247146

photo of stock two months ago:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5248832#post5248832

(* no idea what he has left there I haven't been in there in several weeks.)

 

[Murphy4570]

Nicholson? You can usually find US made files like that at flea markets etc for pennies on the dollar. I bought two slightly rusty Nicholsons from a yardsale of all places for $1. They work great!

 

[lilcraigford]

Are you (OP) referring to the file pattern?

Quote from Brownell's #55 catalog:

"Swiss Pattern or American Pattern; whats' the difference?

The differences between these two file patterns are subtle. Generally speaking, Swiss pattern files have longer, thinner tapers; are slightly slimmer overall; are available in finer cuts; and are made to tighter tolerances than are American pattern files. A Swiss pattern file will give a generally smoother finish than the equivalent-cut American pattern file. If your work requires fine finishing, and/or you want to buy only one file of a shape/cut, pay the extra cost for the Swiss pattern. However, if your files are used mainly for shaping, used by several other people, or are subjected to harsh conditions, the American pattern is a better choice - it will do an excellent job while costing less to buy and replace."

Copied from this thread on the The Home Shop Machinist forums. There is also some good information in another thread over at Practical Machinist.

You can find NOS USA made files at Cripe Distributing and Harry J Epstein.

 

[Gotcha640]

Regarding shapes and (not grits. Grinds?) I've gotten away with just a plain old flat 8" Nicholson to clean up some faces, no handle to get in the way.

A 12" half round is nice, easier to get a bigger face flat faster, and the round side can deburr an inside edge. The edges can get in some narrow spots.

A triangle is more for cutting than smoothing in my use, a few passes on rebar or dowel or small flat bar and you can bend to break. Also good for cleaning up threads and cutting a self tapping/recutting channel in the end of a bolt.

Small round files might be next, I have a couple but I can't remember what I've used them for recently.

 

[Bleugrass]

Are you (OP) referring to the file pattern?

Quote from Brownell's #55 catalog:

"Swiss Pattern or American Pattern; whats' the difference?

The differences between these two file patterns are subtle. Generally speaking, Swiss pattern files have longer, thinner tapers; are slightly slimmer overall; are available in finer cuts; and are made to tighter tolerances than are American pattern files. A Swiss pattern file will give a generally smoother finish than the equivalent-cut American pattern file. If your work requires fine finishing, and/or you want to buy only one file of a shape/cut, pay the extra cost for the Swiss pattern. However, if your files are used mainly for shaping, used by several other people, or are subjected to harsh conditions, the American pattern is a better choice - it will do an excellent job while costing less to buy and replace."

Copied from this thread on the The Home Shop Machinist forums. There is also some good information in another thread over at Practical Machinist.

You can find NOS USA made files at Cripe Distributing and Harry J Epstein.

Yeah thats what I meant. I guess I can read that whole catalog if I want to know more, thanks.

 

[Bleugrass]

The longer ones are a lot more expensive. Why? Are they worth investing in? I'm training to do small engine work.
Anyone have recommendations on sets of files to get? Quality but not top price. Around 5 a file would be nice, could go a little higher. Maybe 10 if it was an incredible set.

 

[Maexle]

YES,get the "PFERD" files, they are worth it, the cutting edges aren't machined, they are "gehauen", means: "hacked in". The entire purpose is, to have an negative angle, an undercut, which creates a bigger and better cutting edge. I did an apprenticeship as a toolmaker in Germany and that's what I was using for 3.5 years at the work bench. Believe me, it IS a huge difference in using proper files. The outcome of the quality of your work and efficiency will pay out quickly.
The cutting edge geometry of a good quality steel used and "hacked", proper heat treated file compared to a "bargain" file makes a hell of a difference.
Depending on your work and accessibility, the right choice for a file is depending on the
1.) amount of material to be filed off,
2.) tolerance,
3.) surface area
4.) surface smoothness (which can be greatly improved by using a finishing file with chalk rubbed on).

Don't forget to order a proper brush as well to clean the file frequently.

The video here shows what "hacked in" means ("Pferd" of course, has machines doing this):

I hope I could help.

 

[rlitman]

A triangle is more for cutting than smoothing in my use, a few passes on rebar or dowel or small flat bar and you can bend to break. Also good for cleaning up threads ...

I also use triangle files to sharpen saw teeth and on the inside of square holes.

 

[1982fxr]

they don't make good "American made" files anymore.
Nicholson is all Hecho en Mexico.

you can find a little bit of US-made Nicholson NOS (new old stock) stuff on Ebay, but most of it is crazy priced.

there's a little bit of "Pferd" (German-made) stuff on Ebay, and most of what I saw there is higher than hell.

there's THIS guy (local here) who might make you a deal if you want to order some of his Pferd NOS stuff:

contact info:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5247146#post5247146

photo of stock two months ago:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5248832#post5248832

(* no idea what he has left there I haven't been in there in several weeks.)

Enderes ?
who makes Snap-on , if they are USA?

 

[Peluo]

I have a set from USAG, comes with 5 files all with handles, very good quality. There is also a similar set by Expert tools a little cheaper, don’t know if they are the same quality. Same parent company Stanley/Black and Decker tool group.

 

[rlitman]

Enderes ?
who makes Snap-on , if they are USA?

Enderes doesn't make files any more

I'm guessing that Bahco makes Snap On's files. And they are not USA COO. On the site, the big files are listed as "PRT".
https://shop.snapon.com/product/Multi-Cut-Flat-File/Multi-Cut-Flat-File/10FMK

And the "Swiss Pattern Needle Files" are listed COO as "ITA".

 

[remagenman]

Yeah, people don't shop at Harbor Freight because they have $3k to drop on a tool cabinet! We go there for a $3k tool cabinet we can buy at $199.99!

 

[Skin]

If PRT is Portugal the Snap-on and Bahco files are probably made by Tome Feteira.

 

[rlitman]

If PRT is Portugal the Snap-on and Bahco files are probably made by Tome Feteira.

Except that Bahco also makes files in Portugal, and Snap On OWNS Bahco. I really don't think they'd be farming their parts out to a competitor when they make them in-house.

https://paulsellers.com/2016/10/bahco-saw-files-beat-best-rest-real-bench-testing/

 

[seber]

You are responding to a four year old thread. The OP has not posted in the last three years.

 

[134k]

I had to find this thread because I just found out something interesting at LAX. I'm on my way home after a service this call this week. I was talking to a Pferd rep for USA and we had a discussion about where the Pferd files are made. They are mostly made in India now, at least the files included in sets. I've always tried to pick up NOS or files found at garage sales and fleabay, and this further makes it more evident that even the Germans are outsourcing file manufacturing. Sad news for me because I always wanted to buy a few of the Pferd files for the garage.