Well, it's finally build a shed time...

[G20-Budo]

Hey guys,

So after being on this forum for a few years, and learning alot, I have decided to build a shed in the back yard. The primary reason for the shed is to clear my garage of clutter. There are so many storage items in there, and I've got a good deal of yard tools, lawnmore, etc around the back yard that also could use a place out of the weather/sun.

I'm in the Phoenix, AZ area, I have an HOA and I live in a corner lot, so plenty of room in back. There also happens to be a 20' sound wall on the back of my property, due to the fact that there is a freeway 100' from the wall.

So my plan:

• 10x12' shed (so I won't need a permit)
• Locate it right in the middle (side to side) of the rear sound wall, about 3' from the wall (so I can get around it).
• 4" thick cement foundation, and I'd like to use the cement as the floor of the shed.
• PT 2x4's that connect to the foundation and 2x4's for the framing, 24" OC (unless I'm told of a reason to do 16" OC).
• Set it up so I can hang my yard tools on the outside of the shed, between the sound wall and the shed. This will keep them out of the sun/water while not taking up any room inside the shed.
• Plenty of ventilation to help with summer heat, and mesh over the vents to keep out the bugs.
• Use cement board for the shed walls and trim. This looks good to me because we have severe heat here in the summers, and it can really dry wood out. (Neighbor just built a shed using this, looks like a good choice).

I very much like how the shed turned out that D45 built, here is his shed build thread.

Questions:

1. Is using the concrete foundation a bad thing?
2. Is it worth the extra effort/cost to do a barn style (gambrel) roof? I think I could use the space.
3. What door options would you guys recommend?
4. What would be the best way to secure the shed to the concrete foundation (install bolts in the concrete when I lay it?)

I have looked at a number of really great shed projects on here, which has inspire me to build one of my own. Any help you guys can provide would be great. I member nicely agreed to send me a copy of this Sketchup shed drawing (10x12') which will help me greatly in estimating the supplies needed for this project. I will post pics of the design, with any updates I've made once I get it.

Again, thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[D45]

I would never own a shed without the gambrel roof

I added a larger rear loft and a small front loft, which adds SO MUCH more storage area

The rollup $200 Ideal door from Menards is fantastic, very pleased I went this route

 

[G20-Budo]

I would never own a shed without the gambrel roof

I added a larger rear loft and a small front loft, which adds SO MUCH more storage area

The rollup $200 Ideal door from Menards is fantastic, very pleased I went this route

D45 - I really liked the design of your shed and how it turned out. And the idea of loft storage sounds GREAT! I'm just not sure if there is a height limitation for sheds in my HOA? How tall did your shed end up being?

 

[D45]

The top peak of the gambrel?.........not 100% certain

I would estimate around 12-14 feet?

 

[G20-Budo]

D45, I checked with my city requirements on sheds. If the shed is 120 sqft or less and no taller than 7', a permit is not needed. I don't want to go through the trouble of getting a permit, but I sure would like a taller shed. I will continue to look into it.

 

[James-W]

D45, I checked with my city requirements on sheds. If the shed is 120 sqft or less and no taller than 7', a permit is not needed. I don't want to go through the trouble of getting a permit, but I sure would like a taller shed. I will continue to look into it.

If I were you I would build the size shed I wanted regardless if you need a permit or not. Just go get the permit and build the size shed that you want. My thinking is, you will never be happy with some little dinky shed that does not fit your needs. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet, pay the price and do it right.

 

[fiveoh108]

I would build it what size best fits you, when I sold my last house that had non permitted additions, I had to disclose there was no permits for certain things, but I was not subject to any penalties. I also sold my house for over asking price!

 

[1/2 Cup]

Looking forward to seeing how your build goes.

Regards

 

[matt_i]

I think I'd metal roof it, and add large gable vents. Metal will last a long time, but as an enclosure heated by the sun, it is going to be a cooker in the summertime. You have to keep that in mind when filling it also. Shovels and yard tools won't care but you can't put anything sensitive inside that doesn't like the intense heat. I experienced a lot of dust when I lived in Tempe, that will be the other thing that's going to be in opposition to the venting.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I agree with the permit idea. 7' total height isn't much unless you have a flat roof on it. See if there are any "temporary" structure exemptions too. Here if you build a wood floor and there are no sauna tubes for example it is considered temporary. You pour a floor or footings and now it is "permanent" and gets charged taxes.

 

[aandpdan]

"I have an HOA"

What are their requirements?

 

[G20-Budo]

I agree with the permit idea. 7' total height isn't much unless you have a flat roof on it. See if there are any "temporary" structure exemptions too. Here if you build a wood floor and there are no sauna tubes for example it is considered temporary. You pour a floor or footings and now it is "permanent" and gets charged taxes.

I also and thought about doing a sloped flat roof, that is higher in the back and comes down to around 7'. And put the taller part back towards the sound wall. I might be able to get away with this without much notice from anyone, and it would actually be cheaper/easier to build. True I wouldn't have as much storage room, but still a good deal.

"I have an HOA"

What are their requirements?

That is a good question, I tried to look it up online, but it looks like they didn't pay for their domain name renewal. So there website isn't work.

Thank you everyone for your inputs, this is what makes this forum so valuable!

 

[Voi]

I also and thought about doing a sloped flat roof, that is higher in the back and comes down to around 7'. And put the taller part back towards the sound wall. I might be able to get away with this without much notice from anyone, and it would actually be cheaper/easier to build. True I wouldn't have as much storage room, but still a good deal.

A neighbor of mine has a very low sloped "shed style" roof here in South Dakota and it's maybe 10' wide at the widest point (it's L shaped and narrower on one end). I think you could get away with it easily in your part of AZ.

I'm not sure how flat it is but under 2:12 for sure. It might even be under 1:12.

His tall wall is 8' and I like it better than gambrel style sheds that are ~8' at their peak. More wall space for hanging shovels, string trimmers, etc.

Would be very easy to build.

 

[D45]

7' tall roof peak is a joke, so that means your walls would be like 4-5 foot tall

A small shed is better than nothing, especially to get all the lawn and garden stuff out of the garage..........but even a 10x12 with the tall gambrel roof I filled up, VERY FAST

Rethinking the build, a 12x16 would have been much nicer and not much more cost, at all

 

[bad_idea]

Check if it is 7' to the PEAK or the EVE(the bottom of the roof). For me it was 8' to the EVE.

Make sure you have enough room to get the mower all the way around the shed. Weed eating behind the shed gets old. BTDT.

 

[G20-Budo]

If I do a sloped style roof, I would make it at least 10-11' on the back side (closest to the 20' sound wall) and the lowest side where the eve would be on the front would be around 7'. But that was a good point that bad idea made.. If it's 7' at the eve, I'd be fine with either roof design. I need to go back and read the city docs again.

 

[bczygan]

First check ALL of your HOA requirements. They are likely to be more restrictive.

Then check ALL of your zoning requirements, including setbacks and maximum sizes and heights.

Then determine exactly what you will need to house, and even do a layout.

Then you know how big it needs to be.

120 is not a magic number. And a permit is not a bad thing if you need more space.

Check the foundation requirements and see of there is a difference between permanent and temporary sheds and how it effects insurance and taxes and the cost of the shed. See of ratwalls or foundation walls are required or if a thickened edge slab is OK. I much prefer concrete floored sheds, compared to wood, especially for easy access of wheeled things and good support for heavy things.

Consider what the style of the main house is, and how you can complement it.

Think about the layout of the entire yard and how you will use it in conjunction with your shed.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

As far as roof shapes and volume, a high pitch gable is better than a low pitched one. A Gambrel is better than that. A Mansard is even better, and a flat roof at the maximum height allowed can enclose the most volume.

Bill

 

[D45]

So glad I did not have to deal with any HOA garbage or permit ****

 

[engineer2]

What do you guys in Phoenix do to keep termites out of your shed? Are steel studs a solution? Do you do anything to keep it from turning into an oven during the summer?

 

[pmiranda]

Check all your deed records and the plat map for utility or other access easements along that wall. It would **** to have to move your shed full of stuff if the utility company has to trench along it to fix a water main or something in the middle of the night!

 

[terry603]

D45, I checked with my city requirements on sheds. If the shed is 120 sqft or less and no taller than 7', a permit is not needed. I don't want to go through the trouble of getting a permit, but I sure would like a taller shed. I will continue to look into it.

I checked into a shed with my town


any size I want the permit is still only 5.00

but, if I build it over 144 sq ft, then I need to follow all building codes and set backs.

going to build 10x14 this coming summer, don't want to deal with the extra headache, even tho I really wanted a 10x16

 

[rvieceli]

terry603 in our town even if the build is below the square footage requiring a permit, we still have to abide by the rules governing set backs.

 

[G20-Budo]

I'll call the city and ask them about my shed, easements, etc. If the permit is cheap and they're not a PITA, I'll get one if I have too.

 

[vintagespeed1956]

get the permit, it's easy and cheap. i built my shed slightly over the limit....to fit my dirt bikes and stuff from the garage, my neighbor turned me into the city. too close to the wall, had to extend my slab, move the shed, yada yada....that ***** cost me about $1500 in concrete and now my shed is 5' out in my yard. goddam neighbors.

 

[G20-Budo]

get the permit, it's easy and cheap. i built my shed slightly over the limit....to fit my dirt bikes and stuff from the garage, my neighbor turned me into the city. too close to the wall, had to extend my slab, move the shed, yada yada....that ***** cost me about $1500 in concrete and now my shed is 5' out in my yard. goddam neighbors.

Wow, good advise.. I'll check into the permit requirements. My one neighbor wouldn't care at all, but who knows about any other neighbors.

 

[ratdoggy]

I have mine on patio blocks...
Been that way for 6 years now and no problems I see.
Honestly I would put it in a corner of the yard and landscape around it to "hide" it..
In the middle of the yard it kind of becomes a focal point...
Kind of like a piece of spinach in the teeth of a beautiful woman

 

[ratdoggy]

If I do a sloped style roof, I would make it at least 10-11' on the back side (closest to the 20' sound wall) and the lowest side where the eve would be on the front would be around 7'. But that was a good point that bad idea made.. If it's 7' at the eve, I'd be fine with either roof design. I need to go back and read the city docs again.

If you did a sloped roof (no peak I'm assuming) like the one below
Put the high point over the entrance because that's where you'll spend most of your time in the shed

 

[redmondjp]

Also make sure to add ventilation - places for air to enter at the bottom and to exit at the top. Most people omit this important detail.

 

[69GSCAL]

I'm in Maricopa County as well and 200 sq ft is the cut off for a detached storage space (no electrical, plumbing or mechanical) requiring a permit.

Not sure about the structure's hieght or foundation type. The only thing I see is that anything under a wall height of 10' can be fast tracked through permiting.

 

[TonkaJoe]

Questions:

-Is using the concrete foundation a bad thing?
-Is it worth the extra effort/cost to do a barn style (gambrel) roof? I think I could use the space.
-What door options would you guys recommend?
-What would be the best way to secure the shed to the concrete foundation (install bolts in the concrete when I lay it?)

I recently built a 9x18 dutch style barn in addition to my garage renovation last summer and was really happy with the results. you can check out my build thread here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306497

- Concrete is definitely a great way to go, I'm glad I went this route vs patio stones etc.. No critters living underneath it, keeps bugs, mice etc out, Solid floor for anything you ever want to store in there, no sagging issues, weather tight.

- Absolutely worthwhile adding a loft, you'd be surprised the amount of extras you can safely store up there. It's one of those things that you will wish you had done later on if you don't go ahead with it off the get go.

- I like the roll up door idea, I went with double barn style doors as I was going for a mix of looks and simplicity.

- I laid a strip of sill gasket directly on the concrete, then a foundation of waterproof 2x4 then set the actual framework of the shed on top of that. Drilled through the foundation and concrete and used concrete lags to secure everything down.

Here's a peak!

 

[G20-Budo]

Also make sure to add ventilation - places for air to enter at the bottom and to exit at the top. Most people omit this important detail.

That was planned, but I forgot to mention it in the first post, I'll go update that now.

I'm in Maricopa County as well and 200 sq ft is the cut off for a detached storage space (no electrical, plumbing or mechanical) requiring a permit.

Not sure about the structure's hieght or foundation type. The only thing I see is that anything under a wall height of 10' can be fast tracked through permiting.

69GSCAL - I only checked the city of Chandler website, not the county regulations. I'll be calling the city today to get more detailed info. If what you're saying applies, and I could do like 10' at the highest point maybe it's 7' side walls, I'd be ok with that. But I'll find out today.

- Concrete is definitely a great way to go, I'm glad I went this route vs patio stones etc.. No critters living underneath it, keeps bugs, mice etc out, Solid floor for anything you ever want to store in there, no sagging issues, weather tight.

- Absolutely worthwhile adding a loft, you'd be surprised the amount of extras you can safely store up there. It's one of those things that you will wish you had done later on if you don't go ahead with it off the get go.

- I like the roll up door idea, I went with double barn style doors as I was going for a mix of looks and simplicity.

- I laid a strip of sill gasket directly on the concrete, then a foundation of waterproof 2x4 then set the actual framework of the shed on top of that. Drilled through the foundation and concrete and used concrete lags to secure everything down.

TonkaJoe - Thanks for your inputs. I'll keep this in mind. Sounds like the barn style roof is in my future, assuming it's not too much of a PITA with the permit.

 

[G20-Budo]

Ok, so I checked into the HOA requirements, and it's too much of a PITA to go through to get those approved AND a permit from the city. I'm just going to make a 10x12' shed that is 7' tall with a sloped roof. For additional storage, I'll install an attic ladder in my garage (I have a 3 car garage). That will provide more than enough space for the light, but space consuming items (holiday stuff, suite cases, etc).

Now to buy some supplies and get moving.