The VISES of Garage Journal

[bluebolt]

ALL: anybody have an idea of the maker of this mill vise? it has 6 inch jaws and weighs i'm guessing about 80 pounds. i also came with an aluminum jig. it looks to be well made.

since i don't own a mill or lathe (yet) i guess i really didn't NEED this vise, but when has that really been an issue to keep me from buying one.

I think that's a Kurt. See these two links.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kurt-6-Precision-Machinist-Vise-D60-010674-/181783288417

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tld/5373615082.html

 

[drivesitfar]

Outlaw: i'll start posting a few more clamps in the clamps 101 thread and maybe i'll find a few Stearns while i'm taking pictures.

Mark: that chain pipe vise is cool. i think i'll keep my eye open for another one too and mount it to a trailer hitch type mount to plug into my welding benches I'm making. i'll try to get all my STUFF out of the way of my grinders and tools so i can clean it up and see what brand mine is.

BB: i think you hit it on the head and i just changed the name of the picture file on my laptop to that one for sale in Cleveland

Joe: cool looking little vise.

Fretters: I KNOW.

 

[McBrownie]

BB: i think you hit it on the head and i just changed the name of the picture file on my laptop to that one for sale in Cleveland

Wow! I have absolutely no need for that.

 

[Reversepolarity]

Value of a Rock Island 591
Decent shape???????

 

[slow_runner]

That's fairly common in industry. Most companies will have custom colors made that are just off from off-the-shelf colors. This is a way for them to protect their brand from knockoffs and differentiate themselves from the competition. It also lets them charge extra for touch-up paint that only they can supply. They rarely give out the formula, even for obsolete color schemes. Most companies don't even keep the formula available to customer service. It's locked away in a vault and only the paint dept. at the factory has access to it.
Your best bet would be to have a paint store scan it and do a color match.

Thanks Jake.

That was my suspicion too but it is still a strange one given that automotive manufacturers openly supply paint codes. Also, in the case of Dawn vices, there are plenty of clones about that appear identical in every way except for the colour. As we know, the colour can be analysed and a good operator will be able to duplicate to within a gnats one.

With that in mind and out of interest, I sent Dawn an email outlining the above along with the following
"Can you tell me when were the Dawn fabricated vices first manufactured and were they manufactured in-house ( or sourced externally but within Australia).
Or were they sourced from Asia? Are they sourced from Asia now?"

As I understand it, Dawn was wholly Australian owned, then ownership went offshore. Now it appears that Dawn is Australian owned once more. Maybe by foreign owners resident in Australia?

My analogy of modern manufacturers and what they present. It is akin to viewing an image; you cannot tell if what you see is genuine or photoshoped

 

[joe.striper]

Maybe this will help. The springs are flat and keep tension on the notched plate when the handle is closed and locked. Maybe yours are missing if you don't feel a little tension right at the end of pulling the handle closed.

Get thanks for all your help, but it was one that sold on Ebay that finally got me squared away. I was able to download a good pic of the base and figured it out. I got it together and working perfectly. So happy!

 

[joe.striper]

http://hartford.craigslist.org/tls/5407063809.html

Nice 5" Athol in CT. $180. Very Clean.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Get thanks for all your help, but it was one that sold on Ebay that finally got me squared away. I was able to download a good pic of the base and figured it out. I got it together and working perfectly. So happy!

I'm glad you got it back together and working again.

 

[Ralf99]

Thanks Jake.



That was my suspicion too but it is still a strange one given that automotive manufacturers openly supply paint codes. Also, in the case of Dawn vices, there are plenty of clones about that appear identical in every way except for the colour. As we know, the colour can be analysed and a good operator will be able to duplicate to within a gnats one.



With that in mind and out of interest, I sent Dawn an email outlining the above along with the following

"Can you tell me when were the Dawn fabricated vices first manufactured and were they manufactured in-house ( or sourced externally but within Australia).

Or were they sourced from Asia? Are they sourced from Asia now?"



As I understand it, Dawn was wholly Australian owned, then ownership went offshore. Now it appears that Dawn is Australian owned once more. Maybe by foreign owners resident in Australia?



My analogy of modern manufacturers and what they present. It is akin to viewing an image; you cannot tell if what you see is genuine or photoshoped

The original Dawn Engineers vice was itself a clone of Record and Woden vices from the UK, who were also more than likely what was cloned to produce the no name versions.

Dawn has been through a number of owners hands over the last 99 years, including Siddons Industries from 1973-1991. Siddons were the manufacturers of Sidchrome until they were sold to Stanley, with the majority of Sidchrome production being moved to Taiwan by around 1995.

To the best of my knowledge, Dawn production remained almost entirely in Melbourne at least until it was extricated from Stanley by a management buyout (?) in 1998, when it again became Australian owned. Since then the product range has been broadened with "lower cost" items produced offshore; however the premium range of Engineer vices in both standard and offset configurations as well as "premium" fabricated vices and clamps are still manufactured in Australia. There is also a range of stainless steel fabricated vices but not sure if these are local or offshore, and a "lower cost" offshore range that are usually painted a grey/blue colour.

I have a couple of 4" fabricated Dawn vices that were manufactured in Australia in the early 90's, but I do not know when they were first introduced. During the 70's Dawn took over a vice manufacturer in Sydney who made fabricated Engineers vices under the Joplin name. The Joplin vice was fabricated to resemble the Dawn cast Engineers vice.




(Photos not mine - stolen from EBay Australia listing)

I have a number of Dawn vices dating from the 60's through to the 90's with original paint, and there does not appear to be a consistent colour between them - ranging from a crimson red through maroon; satin and gloss.
I also contacted Dawn a couple of times about paint codes for their various production periods which they were unable to give me - not because they were being secretive I believe, but rather the persons I communicated with gave the impression of being gormless.

 

[topop101]

ALL: here's a couple vises that i bought more because of their look than anything i have to use them for.

first one is an old handsaw vise and i didn't recognize the maker's name Stearns if that is the maker. Maybe i can sharpen up a few of the old handsaws i own or maybe the chain saw bar will fit to sharpen the chain.

this pipe chain vise has some writing on it that i'll clean up and post later, but it has a nice handle and one of the biggest chains for a little vise i've seen. i'm guessing it was for holding cast iron pipe

EC Stearns was a big saw vise maker. lesser know for there bench vise's. I did manage to come across one last year. With hand saw's not in such demand any longer the saw vise is nearly out of a job. If they were built a lil stronger they could be repurposed for maybe sheet metal . But they won't take much force at all.

 

[bluebolt]

EC Stearns was a big saw vise maker. lesser know for there bench vise's. I did manage to come across one last year. With hand saw's not in such demand any longer the saw vise is nearly out of a job. If they were built a lil stronger they could be repurposed for maybe sheet metal . But they won't take much force at all.

I had a guy ask if I had a saw vise at one of my recent garage sales and I told him there was part of one in the dollar bin. It was missing the part after the pivot that would mount to the work bench, he didn't care and gladly bought it for a buck!

 

[va.grouseman]

Good post on the Dawns Ralf.---But 1 post in nearly 5 years.---You'll be nearly 500 when you hit Senior Member.

 

[G20-Budo]

Hey guys,

So I took a little 45 min drive today to pick up this Snap-On (Wilton Tradesman) 1745 vise. I got it for a pretty good price. It just needs a little cleaning up, some fresh paint and lube, maybe a new set of jaws. BIG thanks to a few of the GJ members who replied to my PM's about what to check for on this vise.

 

[Ralf99]

Must not rush in to these things.
Only 250 years to go now....

 

[Shiftless]

Must not rush in to these things, better to lurk in the shadows for a while. Only 250 years to go now....

Very funny, Ralf,
And welcome to our looney little corner of GJ.

 

[slow_runner]

The original Dawn Engineers vice was itself a clone of Record and Woden vices from the UK, who were also more than likely what was cloned to produce the no name versions.

Dawn has been through a number of owners hands over the last 99 years, including Siddons Industries from 1973-1991. Siddons were the manufacturers of Sidchrome until they were sold to Stanley, with the majority of Sidchrome production being moved to Taiwan by around 1995.

To the best of my knowledge, Dawn production remained almost entirely in Melbourne at least until it was extricated from Stanley by a management buyout (?) in 1998, when it again became Australian owned. Since then the product range has been broadened with "lower cost" items produced offshore; however the premium range of Engineer vices in both standard and offset configurations as well as "premium" fabricated vices and clamps are still manufactured in Australia. There is also a range of stainless steel fabricated vices but not sure if these are local or offshore, and a "lower cost" offshore range that are usually painted a grey/blue colour.

I have a couple of 4" fabricated Dawn vices that were manufactured in Australia in the early 90's, but I do not know when they were first introduced. During the 70's Dawn took over a vice manufacturer in Sydney who made fabricated Engineers vices under the Joplin name. The Joplin vice was fabricated to resemble the Dawn cast Engineers vice.

I have a number of Dawn vices dating from the 60's through to the 90's with original paint, and there does not appear to be a consistent colour between them - ranging from a crimson red through maroon; satin and gloss.
I also contacted Dawn a couple of times about paint codes for their various production periods which they were unable to give me - not because they were being secretive I believe, but rather the persons I communicated with gave the impression of being gormless.

Thanks for the beauty background info Ralf!
There was likely an arrangement between Record and Dawn, and maybe a loose one at that.
I have a small Record vice out in the shed that I refurbished years back, a 0 or 00? that is made in Australia. I have never seen one before, or never noticed
I was going to list it until I saw the 'Australia' cast on the body.

The Joplin looks like a go to own and I would jump at an early one. Nicely engineered!
I see that there are vices marketed as Joplin still being sold but they don't appear to be a patch on the old ones' for weld finish. The Dawn that I have is also the same in respect to the weld, very consistent as opposed to what I see on the current new examples up for sale. And the screw is a serious size too.
Would I be correct that Dawn adopted the Joplin style tag when they took them over? The modern ones have the stamped 'Dawn' and a transfer; tacky Asian style.

I am still waiting for a reply from the sheila at Dawn but I don't hold out much hope; it was a bit of a good natured poke in the ribs anyway.

All the best to you Ralf, cheers.

 

[Ralf99]

Thanks for the beauty background info Ralf!
There was likely an arrangement between Record and Dawn, and maybe a loose one at that.
I have a small Record vice out in the shed that I refurbished years back, a 0 or 00? that is made in Australia. I have never seen one before, or never noticed
I was going to list it until I saw the 'Australia' cast on the body.

The Joplin looks like a go to own and I would jump at an early one. Nicely engineered!
I see that there are vices marketed as Joplin still being sold but they don't appear to be a patch on the old ones' for weld finish. The Dawn that I have is also the same in respect to the weld, very consistent as opposed to what I see on the current new examples up for sale. And the screw is a serious size too.
Would I be correct that Dawn adopted the Joplin style tag when they took them over? The modern ones have the stamped 'Dawn' and a transfer; tacky Asian style.

I am still waiting for a reply from the sheila at Dawn but I don't hold out much hope; it was a bit of a good natured poke in the ribs anyway.

All the best to you Ralf, cheers.

I'm guessing they did adopt the Joplin style tag after they took them onboard, but I have only seen them use it on made in Australia fabricated vices (still to this day) and some of their sash cramps.




The fabricated vices stamped Dawn and the cheesy plasticised logo are almost certainly made offshore.

Given that I am from the Melbourne area where Dawn originate, there are very few interloping Joplin vices from Sydney to be found locally. I do have an early 70's 5" cast Joplin vice out in the back shed which is probably the equivalent of the discontinued Dawn L or "Lite" series.

 

[Ralf99]

These fabricated offset vices are great for welding tables which is where this one will end up. They are nice and compact but rigid and square even at the outer jaw edge on heavy clamping. Thats a 4" RHS in the jaws.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

I always thought of blacksmiths leg vices as being mostly for heavy physical work and not really being used for any fine/detailed work.

Seems I was wrong



From http://lockstockbarrel.co.uk/html/archives.html

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Ralf99 Cheers for all the Dawn history sir

 

[RHJO51]

Hello there, some new vises came my way. There was a local ad from some good folks slowly cleaning out Grandpa's garage. I had purchased a nice but well used Reed 204 and came back to poke through a mountain of stuff, all-kinds-of-stuff. Saw a big unusual vise and was able to purchase it as well. We had to unbolt it from the work bench. I never saw a vice like this one. It's a Chas Parker No 449. Rotating and swiveling, 4" jaw. Very good shape, but really greasy. Doesn't look abused at all. Can't wait to clean it up. I think it's a early one with the round screw head. Also doesn't have the Parker wrenches on the swivel lock screws. The levers on these are rods with flat head screws in the ends. Is this original? I can't seem to find any pics of this exact vise. I also see that on the opposite side there is a hole. I'm guessing there was some kind of pin. Anyone know??? I really like this vise, seems rare and unusual, hope I didn't pay too much for this one.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

The screws in the lock handles are original. The empty hole did come with a pin just so you could change left - right lock position.
Nice Vise

 

[joe.striper]

Hello there, some new vises came my way. There was a local ad from some good folks slowly cleaning out Grandpa's garage. I had purchased a nice but well used Reed 204 and came back to poke through a mountain of stuff, all-kinds-of-stuff. Saw a big unusual vise and was able to purchase it as well. We had to unbolt it from the work bench. I never saw a vice like this one. It's a Chas Parker No 449. Rotating and swiveling, 4" jaw. Very good shape, but really greasy. Doesn't look abused at all. Can't wait to clean it up. I think it's a early one with the round screw head. Also doesn't have the Parker wrenches on the swivel lock screws. The levers on these are rods with flat head screws in the ends. Is this original? I can't seem to find any pics of this exact vise. I also see that on the opposite side there is a hole. I'm guessing there was some kind of pin. Anyone know??? I really like this vise, seems rare and unusual, hope I didn't pay too much for this one.

well I have had 2 439s, this is the first 449 I've seen. It is pre-1930, hence the no wrench design. I am not one to disagree with Get, but I think those handles are aftermarket. Ive seen them on other vises. On my 439s the handles were solid and much longer. I wonder what the difference is between a 449 and a 474? Neither the 439 or 449 are listed on Dayid.org

 

[CwazyWabbit]

well I have had 2 439s, this is the first 449 I've seen. It is pre-1930, hence the no wrench design. I am not one to disagree with Get, but I think those handles are aftermarket. Ive seen them on other vises. On my 439s the handles were solid and much longer. I wonder what the difference is between a 449 and a 474? Neither the 439 or 449 are listed on Dayid.org

I hate to disagree with Joe, but I'd say the handles are original



Pic from the 1913 catalogue (they are also shown in the catalogues up to 1935)

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Just going by these two in different sizes.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Now we just need to know how much was paid for this, the largest of the double swivellers

 

[Rileysan]

I really like this vise, seems rare and unusual, hope I didn't pay too much for this one.

We can't make that judgement unless you tell us what you paid! But if I were to make a guess, I would say that anything less than $200 was a good deal. Anything less that $100 is a steal. Nice vise!

Brian

 

[joe.striper]

I hate to disagree with Joe, but I'd say the handles are original



Pic from the 1913 catalogue (they are also shown in the catalogues up to 1935)

Get and Cwazy, after 32 years of marriage i have no problem admitting I was wrong.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Lol, Joe ..... I think we've all sat in that boat

Anyone got a catalogue page for a 474? Might be able to work out the differences ....

 

[drivesitfar]

Ralf: thanks for posting all the history and information about Dawn vices. i've always liked them and would like to find an offset one some day in the future.

at the rate you post i'm thinking quality over quantity?

post more pictures and information as you have time, but remember some of us are OLD and would like to see it sooner rather than later.

cheers and welcome to our group

G-20: your pictures of that vise you found didn't show up so you might try again when you have time. sounds like a nice vise.

RHJ: i doubt you paid too much for that old PARKER double swiveler. nice find and if you take care of that one it should last to pass on to a grandson as one of the nicest vises he will ever own. congrats for going back and checking.

CW: i personally love those OLD pictures so thinking of starting a thread just for them in the Vintage Tool section. post them as you can here to on posts when you are helping somebody too if you have more.

 

[S4cruiser]

Picked up another Prentiss BullDog today (2 in 2 weeks). Ended up trading a Craftsman that I recently refreshed for it. Guy was asking 100.00 for the Prentiss and I probably had 60-70 bucs in the craftsman including purchase price and media blasting but not my time (it's a hobby anyways right?).

Story with this one is it was the guys father in laws vise. I plan to clean and then keep this one...it's my first pattern / coach makers vise. It isn't frozen solid but is close. I'll drop it in the e-tank and go from there.

The jaws are in fairly decent shape but I'm not sure about how they are attached. It almost looks like someone has used shingle nails to attach them?? I haven't been able to find out much online regarding this model (No. 59). Any help appreciated!

Prentiss No. 59

Craftsman I traded. Nice vise but they are a dime a dozen around my area.

 

[drivesitfar]

S4: i think you made a great trade. sorry i don't have much information on the Prentiss #59, but i do own the #26 that is the swivel jaw version. i really like your vise and can you mention what the jaw width is and how heavy your #59 is in case we don't find anybody with more information about that model?

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Get and Cwazy, after 32 years of marriage i have no problem admitting I was wrong.

I've been wrong "everytime" in forty years.

 

[Bottlecapdigger]

I really like your offset vise wabbit. I might try and make one . Looks good. BCD

 

[drivesitfar]

BCD: i remember a thread and maybe a YOUTUBE video of a member making an offset vice so you might try to look it up in case you might need a little help.

good luck

ALL: Just say YES DEAR to your Bride and it's the secret to a GOOD MARRAIGE. of course sometimes remember not to say it too loud in case you might not mean it.

 

[RHJO51]

Thanks Guys, your info is helpful. I paid $50 but I was supposed to unbolt it from the workbench and carry it to the back of my truck. The owners grandson beat me to that part...

I have an old cracked Parker 271 1/2 swivel jaw vise I posted about, a real shame. I was going to sell it for parts, but I see that the pin (ver stuck) for the swivel jaw might be the same size pin that's missing on this 449?

 

[drivesitfar]

RHJ: might i suggest you keep the swivel jaw parker for the other parts and either use them on other cool Parkers you find that need them or pass them on to a member here that might need them. you might also find the static of another Parker swivel jaw vise that doesn't have a crack and you'll have another unique and rare Parker to add to your bench or shelf.

yes you didn't over pay for your double swiveler Parker and might i be the first to say WELL DONE

 

[Bottlecapdigger]

That's a nice craftsman , that will clean up nice. Bcd

 

[bagged89s10]

Bought this last night. I was probably bidding against someone on GJ. Wilton 9350. I hope it's in one piece as the pictures showed.

 

[Fretters]

ALL: Just say YES DEAR to your Bride and it's the secret to a GOOD MARRAIGE. of course sometimes remember not to say it too loud in case you might not mean it.

Someone posted this joke the other day. Sums marriage up perfectly, IMHO.

All men like to think they are marrying nymphomaniacs. The problem is, after a while...



...the ****** leaves but the maniac doesn't.

Made me chuckle, but then again, I do have a warped sense of humour.