Need to get some tips before talking to the electrician

[steveivy]

Hi folks,

There's a lot of folks with deep knowledge on this forum, and I'm one guy with very little electrical experience - just enough to plug stuff in, flip breakers, and change the occasional outlet!

I'm hoping to talk to the electrician this week about power for my new garage/shop (30x28), and would like any tips or thoughts on questions I should be asking.

Power will be brought to a sub-panel from the main house panel where I was fortunate enough to have an extra 100A circuit that I think used to run to a roof-mounted swamp cooler. So I've got 100A to work with. My electrical needs are varied:

* Lighting for the garage and shop - so far I've planned for total of 8 4' fluorescent fixtures (2 lights? 3? I don't know). Researching LEDs but not sure about the expense.
* There will be 3 "areas" of switched lighting - 3 in the "garage", 3 in the "shop", and 2 in the separate storage area across the rear of the building.
* A few outlets on the "garage" side for a shopvac or basic power tools.
* Outlets on the shop side for power tools: table saw, bandsaw, drill press (still shopping), miter saw, etc. Various other 115v tools. I'll be doing a lot of home improvement work out here, but a large reason for this build was for my to finally have a shop I can work on welding/meta projects in.
* The big boys: 50A/230v outlets for the welder (Millermatic 210) and plasma (TD PakMaster 100XL)

I don't really know how to judge how many circuits I can support and of what size, the best layout of outlets, how many outlets/circuit, etc. I'm sure the electrician will have opinions, but hoping to arm myself with some knowledge first!

--Steve

 

[cybrdyke]

Some thoughts:
Outlets and lights on the outside of the building.
Get a USB charging receptacle and have him put it near a workbench so that you can charge things.
Receptacle in ceiling for cord reel.
Receptacles in ceiling for door openers.
CD

 

[bczygan]

Start with 32 of those 2 tube fixtures (Not the 8 you figured on).

Check the wire size and type you will need for the 100A circuit.

Will it be attached or detached?


Bill

Please put your location in your profile.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I would suggest 2 different circuits on the bench, so you can have two different appliances going with out a chance of popping a breaker. When you think you have enough outlets, add a few more.

 

[steveivy]

Hi Bill,

Not sure I follow the "32 fixtures" - can you elaborate? This is a detached garage, in Gilbert, AZ (goes to update profile )

 

[Shiftless]

Did you really intend to have 8 fixtures controlled by a total of 8 separate switches?
Why not one switch for the garage lights, one for the shop and one for the storage areas? Whether you go with fluorescent or LED fixtures each one will only draw about 40 watts for 2 tubes. I don't know what your electric rate is, but you'll only save about half a penny per hour per fixture you switch off. IMHO, it isn't worth all the extra wire and switch gear. Don't forget you'll need some 3 way switches.
Richard Cranium made a good suggestion about having 2 separate 20 amp circuits at your bench. Some guys put both circuits in each box and a box every 2-3 feet. Like a duplex where the top outlet is circuit A and the bottom outlet is circuit B.
I like having an outlet or even a 6 foot long outlet strip along the front edge of the workbench so you don't have a wire dragging across the bench when you're using corded tools.

 

[steveivy]

Shift,

No I meant 8 total: 2 in the storage area on one switch (3-way?) 3 in the garage on a switch, and 3 in the shop in a switch.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No air compressor?

 

[steveivy]

Wylie,

Yes I have a 60gal 115v compressor for air tools and the plasma.

 

[justsam]

There was a 100 Amp Swamp cooler?

 

[nadogail]

A separate circuit for the air compressor will make it easier to upgrade to a 220 compressor eventually.

What about welder power?

 

[steveivy]

There was a 100 Amp Swamp cooler?

Shrug - it's a guess really. 100A circuit was connected to *barely capped wire* sticking out of the roof next to a newer AC unit. Another electrician friend taped it up good and turned off the breaker until we get it rewired.

 

[steveivy]

A separate circuit for the air compressor will make it easier to upgrade to a 220 compressor eventually.

What about welder power?

Hi nadogail,

I'm planning on two 50A/220v outlets for the welder and plasma.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wylie,

Yes I have a 60gal 115v compressor for air tools and the plasma.

U may want to think about a larger 240v air compressor.

HP dictates wire size so u want to plan ahead. Also, if u get a 5HP or larger it will need to be hardwired unless u can find an outlet and plug that is rated for 5HP or more.

 

[toolnut]

There are a bunch of things to take into consideration with powering up your garage. With lighting you want to consider the amount of floor space you will want lit up. As for my pole barn I had 16 foot ceilings so I used 5 hi-bay t-8 4 tube fixtures with a reflector panel. That covered my 60x 40 floor space nicely with 16 foot ceiling. LEDs are nice but that is a matter of preference and price. I like the t-8s myself. Workbench lighting can be considered also. It sounds like you would be able to run 20 amp outlets no problem. If your running a compressor or welder you may want to run separate circuits for each. When I ran my circuits I planned all the stuff that I would want including future considerations. It doesn't take long to run out of panel space….

 

[vartz04]

Something I did in my build was put a dedicated circuit under my bench. This is useful for a mini fridge. Small compressor ect that you might want plugged in under the bench.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MushCreek]

Depending upon the kind of stuff you work on, put the wall outlets high enough so they're not blocked by a 4' sheet of plywood leaning against the wall.

It's a good idea to have several different circuits for your shop. That way, when you are running a machine, and turn on the shop vac, you don't pop the breaker. Don't worry too much about the total load in the shop if you are working alone. You can't run that much stuff at the same time. Different story if you have half a dozen employees using stuff at the same time.

8 lighting units is plenty for walking around; nowhere near enough for working, unless you have separate task lights right over the bench.

 

[bczygan]

Hi Bill,

Not sure I follow the "32 fixtures" - can you elaborate? This is a detached garage, in Gilbert, AZ (goes to update profile )

I mean you don't have enough light.

My 8 1/2' x 19 1/2' small one car has 8 of the 4' 2 tube T8 fixtures like you are planning for a space 4 times as big.

If you ever want to use the entire space for a project, you need 4 times as much light.

Put them on a few switches so you can light as much or as little as needed.

Now, if the main area is simply for parking cars, and you will never work on them, or use that area for pulling out machines and working on projects, then you can reduce the lighting in those areas.

Bill

 

[steveivy]

Thanks Bill, MushCreek, vartz, toolnut:

I'm going to take a bunch of notes on this stuff - great suggestions! for reference, this is the basic electrical schema the architect suggested:



Looks like I will want to add several new light fixtures, and several more outlets. I still need to decide if I'm going to wall off the shop from the garage - it seems the smartest thing, but I kind of also want the freedom to use more of the space for larger welding projects if need be.

Decisions, decisions!

--Steve

 

[Zeke]

Using demising wall will help with having wall space. Wall space is good when planned well. I don't know if some kind of movable wall will work for you in your situation. I did on lengthwise in a 2-car garage and had benches on both sides for a 'galley' shop. Work well for me. Not a lot of floor space left in the shop side.

Outlets can be augmented with plug strips at the bench. One in back and one on the bench front, recessed if need be. Every garage that I've ever owned has been served by one 20 amp circuit and I have done practically everything you can do in a garage w/o problems. That's aside from a 240v circuit that I've made by tapping into a dryer circuit or something similar. Currently I'm using a 10 ga extension cord from a panel nearby.

My advice is to plan well and then don't worry. You can add later if you have to. On that note, dropping your runs down the walls from the plate line of the garage is a good idea. Use j-boxes above so you can change things around. Even better is to use conduit behind any closed walls.

 

[ford33]

Depending upon your tasks, you may want to consider switched "spot" lighting over a workbench, alongside a wall pointing outward or where the engine area of your parked car.

I also find overhead electrical cord reels near the middle of the garage ceiling very useful. It keeps the cords off the floor.

It is nice when your sub-panel is the same make as your home panel so your breakers are interchangeable. Get a slightly bigger panel than necessary to allow for growth.

 

[Shiftless]

Steve:

May I ask what the 2 separate outlets hanging down from the ceiling in the right hand parking bay are for?

 

[steveivy]

They were intended originally to be my 230/50A outlets for the welder and plasma, but I think I'm going to end up putting it in the wall after all.

 

[Shiftless]

Depending upon your tasks, you may want to consider switched "spot" lighting over a workbench, alongside a wall pointing outward or where the engine area of your parked car.

I also find overhead electrical cord reels near the middle of the garage ceiling very useful. It keeps the cords off the floor.

It is nice when your sub-panel is the same make as your home panel so your breakers are interchangeable. Get a slightly bigger panel than necessary to allow for growth.

Switched spotlights next to a wall is a good idea. Here is a pic of part of a row of 4 I use to illuminate a storage wall. They are on outdoor bulb holders that tilt and can swivel to point toward the middle of the garage when needed. Of course, my ceiling height is a measly 7 feet so it's easy to reach up to move the lights. Guys over about 6'2" need to duck. I'm only 5'10" so I'm OK.
These are the only lights I need to turn on most of the time when I go into the garage just to get something off the shelf or out of my rollaway toolbox which is just below the bottom shelf in this pic.

 

[steveivy]

Shift,

Will have to think about the spots - I cannot seem to nail down where the workbenches are going! I like your swivel mounts.

 

[Shiftless]

Shift,

Will have to think about the spots - I cannot seem to nail down where the workbenches are going! I like your swivel mounts.

Thanks Steve,
With all the light I get from those babies, I can see the etched numbers on the sides of sockets no problem. And see what is pushed to the back on my 16 inch deep shelves without using a flashlight which is what I used to be forced to do.