SDS Plus Rotary Hammer Drill and Bits!

[pauls_workshop]

Hey guys, I'm about to do some tile removal and some concrete breakup work soon and got an SDS Plus drill. Today, CPO has the Bosch 11255VSR-RT 1 in. SDS-plus D Handle Bulldog Xtreme Rotary Hammer reconditioned for $119, which sounds like a good one for me. I won't use this daily, but probably weekly for something or other.

Thought I'd start a thread and ask for some advice. I've used hammers drills a good bit, but am brand new to SDS Plus drills, what they can do, how to use them right, and what the best type of bits to get are and the best deals out there for them. Teach me! Thanks in advance!

Especially advice on how to use to break up concrete right and do tile removal right without damaging the cement board underneath. Thanks! - Paul

 

[bcradio]

For tile removal and breaking up concrete you'll want to send that back and order/rent an SDS max hammer with at least 1 1/2" capacity (more if you really want to demo concrete). That drill you ordered will work great for general drilling in concrete if you have a need for it though.

As for bits you'll want

-wide scraper for thinset
-tile removal bit
-point chisel for concrete
-1" chisel for concrete

 

[FigureItOut]

Only advice I can offer is to use Bosch bits. I've had the same ones for years, which doesn't say a lot with my limited usage, but I do go to a couple different construction supply houses regularly and it seems Bosch is all they carry in SDS bits.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

 

[pauls_workshop]

For tile removal and breaking up concrete you'll want to send that back and order/rent an SDS max hammer with at least 1 1/2" capacity (more if you really want to demo concrete). That drill you ordered will work great for general drilling in concrete if you have a need for it though.

As for bits you'll want

-wide scraper for thinset
-tile removal bit
-point chisel for concrete
-1" chisel for concrete

Thanks BC, but please realize I'm not a pro, but DIY'er, and don't have the budget for any SDS Max. I realize they are best for the concrete work, but can the SDS Plus not also do the job, but slower? The concrete work would be rare for me, and probably things like sidewalks and such. Also, would you start with a drilled hole, then point chisel for concrete, then move up to the 1" chisel? What should the process be? - Paul

 

[bcradio]

Thanks BC, but please realize I'm not a pro, but DIY'er, and don't have the budget for any SDS Max. I realize they are best for the concrete work, but can the SDS Plus not also do the job, but slower? The concrete work would be rare for me, and probably things like sidewalks and such. Also, would you start with a drilled hole, then point chisel for concrete, then move up to the 1" chisel? What should the process be? - Paul

I realize they are best for the concrete work, but can the SDS Plus not also do the job, but slower?

The SDS plus will get the tile up, but slower than the SDS max. Where you will run into issues is trying to get up the thinset. This will take SIGNIFICANTLY longer with the SDS plus. It all depends on how much needs to be done and what your time is worth. One tile job? just rent one IMO.


The concrete work would be rare for me, and probably things like sidewalks and such.

If you want to demo sidewalks with this, you will be looking at months of daily work. Even the SDS max will take a VERY significant amount of time to do this. You will want to rent a full size electric jack hammer for doing that. An SDS plus isn't really going to even make a dent in concrete chipping unfortunately. Even a 1 1/2" SDS max isn't going to do very well. You will want a full size SDS max demo hammer or full on 1 1/8" hex hammer for that.

Also, would you start with a drilled hole, then point chisel for concrete, then move up to the 1" chisel? What should the process be?

Typically the key for concrete demo is to start with some corner or other area where you can break off an initial piece. Once that is out, you will now have an area for further pieces to expand into as they break off. Then just work your way down the pad. With the proper hammer there is no need to drill holes in anything, but you may want to pre-cut some areas if you want a flat edge left.


My opinion is to keep your new drill for the cases you need to drill concrete and then rent the proper hammers for the demo jobs you have. The hammer only mode on SDS plus is really only meant for small chipping jobs.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Thanks BC, great info!

I think when I get it, I will still give it a go for the concrete job in mind. I think drilling say a hole every 3-4" along a line, several rows over a sidewalk square, then a good hit with a sledge hammer may well break it up into manageable chunks to just pull out. It doesn't need to be a fine powder. Concrete is very strong in compression but pretty weak in tension. A good sledge hit to create the tension should lead to cracking along the hole lines I would think. If not, I could always rent something bigger as you say. I think this will be good for my tile work though. Have a few rooms to do where they need to be replaced, a few, or all of them. - Paul

 

[bcradio]

Thanks BC, great info!

I think when I get it, I will still give it a go for the concrete job in mind. I think drilling say a hole every 3-4" along a line, several rows over a sidewalk square, then a good hit with a sledge hammer may well break it up into manageable chunks to just pull out. It doesn't need to be a fine powder. Concrete is very strong in compression but pretty weak in tension. A good sledge hit to create the tension should lead to cracking along the hole lines I would think. If not, I could always rent something bigger as you say. I think this will be good for my tile work though. Have a few rooms to do where they need to be replaced, a few, or all of them. - Paul

Sounds like a good plan. Always worth it to try first before shelling out more money.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Anyone have recommendations on specific bits or deals on bits to use?

 

[bcradio]

Always check Cripe first to see if they have what you need.

http://www.cripedistributing.com/bosch-tools-3-4-x-10-sds-hammer-steel-chisel-hs1420-italy.html

 

[frankush]

Cripe usually has a bunch of the bosch bits. I'm in agreement that you would be better off with another tool. The SDS max tools are better for concrete because they hit harder and have some weight behind them. They are a pain to use for drilling lots of small holes because of that same weight. As far as SDS plus, you'd be better off with this style.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-...4452447184-c-9072.htm?tid=5490920176204384836

For tile removal get yourself a scaling chisel. Bosch probably sells more of this style roto hammer than anything else. You can also get a dust collection setup for it, for drilling smaller holes.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Thanks guys. Frankush, the smaller form factor SDS is over twice the price of the refurb longer one! Not going to be worth that to me, at least for now.

I think I'm finding the SDS plus have a purpose, which is to replace a normal hammer drill and cover the smaller range of bit sizes. And for the tile work, I think it will be fine (non pro). I follow that the SDS MAX has a place too, for bigger drilling jobs or the concrete type work or more efficient tile work. BUT, I've been reading the SDS Max isn't really too good on cement work anyhow, like BC has been saying. So I don't think I need a Max right now, nor want to afford that for occasional DIY use. I'm looking forward to getting this and using it! - Paul

 

[Thumper68]

That will get you through a few tile jobs. For sidewalks I prefer a bar and fulcrum to lift the concrete slab and a sledge for making it into small pieces.

 

[mattyrattypoo]

Don't forget this.

https://www.us.hilti.com/direct-fastening/accessories/203086

 

[pauls_workshop]

Don't forget this.

https://www.us.hilti.com/direct-fastening/accessories/203086

Thanks. How, when, and where do you grease these? - Paul

 

[frankush]

Very light coating of grease on the end of the bit before inserting into the hammer. You'll know when it needs it. On the Hilti hammers the chuck is easily removed by twisting it off. A dab of grease on the drive gear as well. I don't know if the Bulldog series has that feature.

 

[rodm1]

Anyone have recommendations on specific bits or deals on bits to use?

For regular use Bosch for heavy work Hilti.

 

[dewalt378g]

Hey guys, I'm about to do some tile removal.......
Especially advice on how to use to break up concrete right and do tile removal right without damaging the cement board underneath. Thanks! - Paul

All the tool advice is great here, but if you're going to to what you mentioned above, that is not the best method. First, the cement board is going to take a beating no matter how well you use your new SDS. While you may be able to remove the tile from the cement board you will only be left with a poor or weakened substrate for your tile due to all the vibration and/or impacts. Second, that cement board is your key to removing the tile in the first place. Get a good pry bar and get under that cement board and just rip up large sections of tile, way faster, way easier. Even if a proper job of the tile was done with the cement board set in thinset to the subfloor, just get a wide flat chisel on your SDS and get under the cement board. SDS and pry bar your way to pulling large chunks of tile and cement board off the floor. Regardless of the type of cement board used, the screws used to hold it down will just pull right through. Still faster than chipping tile off the cement board for the sake of saving the cement board.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Thanks Dewalt. I was inspired by this video:

In my case, I have one room to remove everything but in another, just need to remove about 6 12"x12" tiles and replace them, not the whole floor. Figured I'd remove the grout first, then pry up or chip out those tiles, then replace without damaging the cement board too much. More like precision work. Can this not be done? It looks like the fellow above did it pretty well. I realize this may not be the efficient way for pro contractors. For the whole room project, I could replace the cement board as you say. - Paul

 

[pauls_workshop]

Very light coating of grease on the end of the bit before inserting into the hammer. You'll know when it needs it. On the Hilti hammers the chuck is easily removed by twisting it off. A dab of grease on the drive gear as well. I don't know if the Bulldog series has that feature.

Thanks Frankrush, this is the kind of teaching I need in this thread! Appreciated! - Paul

 

[pauls_workshop]

That will get you through a few tile jobs. For sidewalks I prefer a bar and fulcrum to lift the concrete slab and a sledge for making it into small pieces.

Yes, that bar and fulcrum would create the tension needed to break it once hit with a sledge after. Same idea as the drilled holes, just faster. The line of drilled holes should create what is called a Stress Concentration effect, making that line weak and prone to crack once the tensile stress is applied with the sledge hit. Either way should work I think, but have to try it to see. Poor man's way to break up a bit of concrete without a proper jack hammer. - Paul

 

[dewalt378g]

In that video it looks like that guy is chipping tile off of a concrete wall. The results you are referencing are particular to hard masonry substrates. Tile removal on cement board will be different. In my experience HardieBacker may survive the chisel, but will peel/break off in layers or chunks. Sometimes you can even carve channels in it. Durock, otoh, crumbles almost immediately when impacted with a tool. I can't tell you how many times I've put a hole in Durock and when using the SDS it tends to just dive right in. So be careful using and SDS on cement boards when doing a repair job. Can a precision repair be done? Sure. You're on the right track to start with removing the grout, but after that I use an angle grinder and make several cuts in the bad tile. I try to cut just past the tile and into the thinset, no further. Then stick a flat pry bar in the cuts and snap the tile pieces out. After that I go old school with a hammer and chisel. I'll only use the SDS if have to. Don't try to pry up on the tile unless you know it will easily break loose of the cement board. I try to avoid prying as you can end up damaging adjacent tiles. Once the old tile is out you can softly chip/scrape with the SDS or hammer and chisel to get the rest of the thinset out.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Dewalt, thanks much for this advice. Very different than I was thinking. I will follow your approach and manually get the tiles out, breaking them up. I don't want to damage the cement backer board for the smaller repair job. This is the kind of knowledge I was hoping to find here in this thread! - Paul

 

[dewalt378g]

Sure, no problem. Hopefully someone else will chime in with other options as I'm always looking for new tricks to do old tasks better. So far this approach works for me. The only bad part is the grinder, it makes for a dusty process unless you have the vacuum shroud. However, if you're comfortable with your grinder you can easily hold it in one hand and have your shop vac nozzle in the other. Regardless of how you go about it don't forget your PPE (eyes, ears, mask).

Oh and here's another tip. If you go the grinder route you can feel the grinder "free up" in the cut when it gets past the tile and reaches the thinset. That's when you know to stop plunging into the cut. Now for the differences. Once you're into the thinset you may feel two different things 1. the grinder starts to load up a little and you feel a little "drag" if you will....that's when you hit Hardiebacker...and it smells funny. 2. If you have Durock you almost can't tell when you've cut into it, so try to be aware of your tile thickness and when you hit the thiset layer. It is also hard to tell if you've hit the thinset layer if you have ceramic tile as it is softer than porcelain. Most floor tile is between 5/16 to 9/16 thick. For the typical 12 x 12 (porcelain or ceramic) I would expect 5/16 to 3/8.

 

[pauls_workshop]

I have a diamond impregnated 4 1/2" grinder wheel and have used it alot, so I'm good with a grinder. I also made my own dust shroud for it! That would be much faster than a normal grinder wheel I would think. - Paul

 

[dewalt378g]

Yep, diamond is the way to go and a segmented rim will cut the fastest. Dust shroud and all...looks like your ready to get on it!! Wish you well on your tile job, good luck!!