Am I doing serious harm to myself? Kerosene Heater...

[PolarrrBearrr]

Question for you all.

I have a two car garage, roughly 20-25' deep, with storage over the bays. The peak of the roof is probably 5' (I'm 6' and I have to stoop when I'm up there.) Other than a large access hole in the middle of the garage, there is flooring over the joists. Nothing is insulated, either the roof or the "ceiling" for the bays.

When I bought the house, the garage doors were shot, and it was impossible to get a vehicle into the right bay, so I removed the door and built a wall with a man door in its place. (Which has plywood, but no insulation either). The rest of the walls are cinder block, up to 8'.

I wanted to work in the garage, and after last winter I couldn't lose another 6 months or so. Way to many projects to get done. So, this fall I purchased one of these (or a model very similar): http://www.lowes.com/pd_699937-46631-KFA80DGD___?productId=999924598&pl=1&Ntt=kerosene+heater.

Great heater, and has kept me toasty when the temps dipped this winter (though not as often).

At any rate, due to me both working in and organizing the garage, there is limited space for me to place the heater. It basically ends up blasting at a safe distance, but right at me as I'm working.

The heat isn't bothering me - its the fumes. After a weekend of working in there, by the time Monday morning comes around I have a pounding headache. I reek of kerosene, and the smell of it lasts in the garage for days (which tells me that the garage is pretty airtight).

I've been in enclosed cabins with woodburning stoves, and kerosene and propane lanterns (obviously, they are not putting out nearly as much in the way of fumes as this thing is) but is this thing causing me or is going to cause me major health issues? I recall shooting on an indoor range once with one and I don't recall having the same issues I'm feeling now.

I thought the kerosene would be relatively safe? I have two windows that I can vent if need be. I was just more concerned with staying warm than anything else. When the weather is nice, I have the doors open (which is when I'm usually painting). When I do, either way I use a respirator. Should I be wearing one all the time with this thing?

Thoughts?

 

[Randy in Maine]

Carbon Monoxide is likely giving you the headaches. It will kill you if you let it. At least install a CO detector for now.

After you insulate the space, plan on installing a well vented heater of some sort to get the fumes (and also the moisture by-product of combustion) out of the shop. That will also help keep your tools from rusting.

Did I miss the part where you told us where you are located?

 

[firworks]

Excerpt from the manual for that heater:

Probably want to open a window or two.

 

[Kevin54]

The pic isn't there. I wish I could see it.

But any ventless kerosene heater, whether it be a torpedo/salamander style, or even a kerosun heater......you need fresh air. Like randy said, the fumes are what is giving you your headaches. I wouldn't recommend a ventless at all, and a salamander style should only be used in an area that has fresh moving air around it, like a drafty barn or something like that. So all in all, YES, you are doing some harm to yourself.

BTW.....welcome to Garage Journal. We'd like to have you hang around for a long while, so put in a proper heater. Not just for us, but for the wife and kids if you have any.

The pic came up the third time I tried it. That is a salamander style heater. Yes, that is what is giving you the headaches for sure. And to answer your question about a respirator......DO NOT wear a respirator with this style as Carbon Monoxide has no smell anyways. At least now, the smell will drive you away from it. And again, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER run one of these in an enclosed space......NEVER

 

[RECox286]

These little torpedos are the second best thing to tobacco

and lead pipes for potable water systems. If you really want

to be safe(r) then toss that torp and get a Propane burner.

Uncle Bob

 

[lakeroadster]

The key to those kerosene salamander style heaters is either use them outside or in a drafty shed.

I used one for a couple years in my first garage. I was young and just starting out then. At some point I got tired of smelling like Kerosene and upgraded to a "stinkless" and "Quiet" heat source.

 

[TractorJeff]

Propane heater makes carbon monoxide too!
It doesn't matter if the carbon chains are for propane or kerosene, when either fuel burns with oxygen the atoms rearrange themselves and one of the by products is CARBON MONOXIDE!
I run one in the garage with the torpedo outside and the door down on top of it. Heat blows in and the air exchanges through the rest of the doorway.
In my shop, I have a vented heater as it is a LOT less drafty in there!

 

[rlitman]

Propane heater makes carbon monoxide too!
It doesn't matter if the carbon chains are for propane or kerosene, when either fuel burns with oxygen the atoms rearrange themselves and one of the by products is CARBON MONOXIDE!
I run one in the garage with the torpedo outside and the door down on top of it. Heat blows in and the air exchanges through the rest of the doorway.
In my shop, I have a vented heater as it is a LOT less drafty in there!

Yes, propane can produce CO. So can natural gas. BUT, the more carbon atoms in the fuel, the more oxygen it takes to oxidize all the carbons to CO2. So while propane CAN produce CO, it will produce LESS CO in an equally oxygen starved environment.

And here's the more important part. Better unvented propane heaters designed for indoor use have an ODS (Oxygen Deplention Sensor). It detects when the oxygen levels inside are starting to get low enough that the possibility for producing harmful levels of CO are approaching, and shuts the unit off.
With kerosene, I am not aware of such a device, because even outside, a properly tuned kerosene torpedo will produce some CO, and it only needs to run minutely richer for it to spew lots of CO.

 

[James-W]

Would it be feasible to get rid of the torpedo heater and get a natural gas heater, or a propane heater, that vents outside? If you could get one that brings in outside air for the combustion chamber and then vents the exhaust outside, that would be ideal.

 

[rlitman]

Or a vented kerosene heater? I use a sealed combustion Monitor heater in my garage.

 

[exploringnh]

I have that same brand but the next size up. It runs amazingly clean and I have no issues with it. Be sure that you are using good fuel. I recently had a bad batch of Kero and it stunk just like you are describing until I refilled it with good stuff. I've found that it puffs a little when it first fires and then again when it kicks off. If you are cycling it a lot (which you probably would be in a small space with 80k btu), this could be your issue. I usually fire mine out the garage door when I'm first starting up for the day then spin it back inside once it's going. If it's easy enough, I crack the garage door and face it out before turning it off as well but startup is where it stinks the most.

I'm in a fairly well sealed and insulated 25x25ish shop with 11' ceilings. I do have a little gap at the top of my 10' garage door where the weather sealing has come off, but that's it for fresh air. If it gets stinky, I open the door to flush out the air but I haven't had to do that since the bad fuel.

 

[firworks]

Can other people see the picture I posted? It's just on imgur. Not sure why it wouldn't work. I can see it both here at home and at work...

 

[NUTTSGT]

CO will build up in your bloodstream and make you sick. This is why you're fine till Monday rolls around. You need to make some changes to the way you are heating the garage.

The next time you fire it up, have the local fire dept come out and check the CO level. By chance see if they have a RAD 57 ( or other similar pulse ox) and can check the CO level in your bloodstream.

 

[TractorJeff]

Like we all said, Leave the door or a window open to admit fresh air!
As far as carbon chains, you are right! There are more in kerosene than propane as it contains more BTU energy! Either way an airtight room will allow CO to build up in your bloodstream. Yes, Monday you'll be sicker than a Dog that drank Antifreeze!

 

[rlitman]

By chance see if they have a RAD 57 ( or other similar pulse ox) and can check the CO level in your bloodstream.

Wow, just looked this up. I had no idea such a tool existed. I can see how it could be invaluable.

I've got regular cheap pulse oximeters that measure SpO2, but those will give you a completely false good reading if there is any CO in the blood, as CO will turn hemoglobin bright red even better than O2. This has to be using a spectrum of color rather than just the red/infrared, in order to separate out the differences. Neat!

Like we all said, Leave the door or a window open to admit fresh air!
As far as carbon chains, you are right! There are more in kerosene than propane as it contains more BTU energy! Either way an airtight room will allow CO to build up in your bloodstream. Yes, Monday you'll be sicker than a Dog that drank Antifreeze!

The blood has a strong affinity for CO, but a working CO detector (especially one with a digital readout), can easily detect CO at concentrations well below the danger level.

Yes, getting fresh air is key to ANY unvented combustion. If the oxygen levels inside decrease enough, any combustion heater will start to produce CO, as a product of incomplete combustion (AKA burning "rich", or oxygen starved). The nature of the aerosolized flame inside a torpedo heater also makes it more prone to producing CO when starved of oxygen than a wick kerosene heater.

 

[Kevin54]

I have that same brand but the next size up. It runs amazingly clean and I have no issues with it. Be sure that you are using good fuel. I recently had a bad batch of Kero and it stunk just like you are describing until I refilled it with good stuff. I've found that it puffs a little when it first fires and then again when it kicks off. If you are cycling it a lot (which you probably would be in a small space with 80k btu), this could be your issue. I usually fire mine out the garage door when I'm first starting up for the day then spin it back inside once it's going. If it's easy enough, I crack the garage door and face it out before turning it off as well but startup is where it stinks the most.

I'm in a fairly well sealed and insulated 25x25ish shop with 11' ceilings. I do have a little gap at the top of my 10' garage door where the weather sealing has come off, but that's it for fresh air. If it gets stinky, I open the door to flush out the air but I haven't had to do that since the bad fuel.

Damn man.....you are killing yourself, or at least trying to. Read the instructions on those style of heaters and you ARE NOT supposed to use them in a sealed off area. And it's not the stink that will kill you, it's what doesn't stink that will do you in.

So for the ones that either have a death wish, or are too tight to spend the money, do yourself a favor, and especially ones you care about a favor, and get a proper heater for the garage. You guys probably piss away more than that on tools or vehicles. You can get a 45,000btu propane heater with a flue for around $800 installed, or less if you do everything yourself. And once you get a proper heater in your garage, you will like working out there way better than you do with a salamander style heater. Less noise and no stink

And take it from NUTTSGT also as he is in a business that deals with this sort of thing. Only when he deals with it, it's usually too late in one way or another.

 

[Showkey]

While CO has no smell..............let your nose and eyes be a general guide. If you smell bad smells and your eyes burn after exposure your being exposed to bad flue gases. All flue gases contain some CO plus a **** load of other stuff.
The older I get the more sensitive I am to all these issues.

The other thing to rememeber any solvent fumes in the room being passed through the flame can increase the emissions 10 fold in the matter of minutes.

Again....... yes......it can smell perfect and still be producing CO !!!!!!!!!!! So ALL unvented heaters have HUGE risks associated with them.

 

[PolarrrBearrr]

Wow, just... wow.

I probably should mention that I'm one of those people that see a problem and immediately do something to fix the issue - sometimes acting faster than I should and not doing a little research first. In other words, I probably should have read the warning a little closer. When I first got it, I had it running, but there was a missing panel in my garage door that allowed air to flow in and down to the heater (which at the time was sitting in front of the bay door).

Not thinking about the gases, I fixed the door (I was more concerned about animals that were making my garage home) and some issues I was having with code enforcement. I started running it not thinking about the health issues until I was in there over a weekend.

Luckily, I haven't been in there all that often with it running for too long as I've been busy with other things - one of them being my 1 year old daughter.

Happily, I sit the thing in front of the man door anyway, so cracking the door open right behind it and opening a window at the opposite end of the garage should give me a good cross ventilation, and I have a box fan or two I can run as well.

I need to get some CO2 detectors for the house, and upgrade some fire alarms, so I'll get a detector for the garage as well. Thanks for suggestion. I'll be honest, I've never really thought about things like that - when I was growing up, we had them, but its not until now with a daughter that I'm thinking more and more about that stuff for my own home.

To answer some questions:

1) Right now its the best heating I have. The garage is old, and pretty beat up. It needs to have the roof ripped off and redone, but I'm almost considering having the roof raised so I can put an office up there (though that is down the road). The issue is that one side of the garage is underground (the bottom of the window is a few inches above the ground) the back is the same way, with a shed and chicken coop (not mine, don't ask) and right side is over a retaining wall into my neighbor's yard. There is no place to put a propane tank or any outside apparatus except in the driveway.

2) I could try something that vents and takes air in from outside, but that leaves me again with only really one wall to do it on, and that would have the heater under my workbench blasting into my crotch. I wouldn't want hot air venting into my wife's garden 6" above dry weeds or clippings right next to the building.

3) I wanted to put in a 2 barrel wood burning stove - I have the barrels and the parts that someone gave me - but there wasn't room in there to put them in and operate it safely. Plus, my town, county and state frown upon wood burning anythings. (The fire dept. has been called on me twice for a small fire pit in my yard (one of those metal bowl deals)).

4) I live in what I affectionately call the People's Republic of New Jersey. Don't get me wrong, I love NJ since I can pretty much do anything and its about an hour's drive to do it, but they can get pretty restrictive on certain things. For instance, I live on a corner lot and I have a chain link fence. Since I didn't want to live in a fishbowl (people walk by all the time) I asked code enforcement if I could erect a privacy fence. The answer was "No. We don't want the town to look like Staten Island with everyone having their own compound." (No offence to anyone from Staten Island, but that's what he said.) Don't even get me started on the hoops I have to jump through for firearms.

At any rate, thanks for the info. I'll mount a box fan in a window and crack the door and I should be good for now.

As a thought on this whole heating the garage thing, I have a... let's say pipe coming from my house to the garage that has power lines and an LAN cable running through it. Would it be crazy to run something like that off my home's heating system? I have steam heaters in all the rooms except the kitchen. That has baseboard, though I am unsure how they tied that into everything else - actually, I'm not sure it works at all (though the kitchen is high on the remodel list).

As another thought, I saw at either Lowes or Home Depot that they have a heating device not unlike the torpedo heater I have hanging off the ceiling, but it fires into a long steel tube (basically an extension of the tube that encases the heater). I believe it has a tube to the outside air, and then the hot air is blasted through the tube and out. It heats the tube, creating radiant heating off of that. Would it be possible to make something like that from this torpedo? (Not that I am totally sure I have the room for it...)

At any rate, thanks for the info and thoughts. Looks like I missed another bullet...

 

[DenisG]

I've had some close calls too. Learn to limit your time under those conditions and air out the garage during breaks. If you ignore your time limits, you risk fogging your brain and making really bad decisions.

 

[rlitman]

My comments in blue

Happily, I sit the thing in front of the man door anyway, so cracking the door open right behind it and opening a window at the opposite end of the garage should give me a good cross ventilation, and I have a box fan or two I can run as well.

Having the intake of the heater in fresh air by the open door is actually more important than anything else. Don't bother with the box fan.

I need to get some CO2 detectors for the house...

PLEASE either go out and buy some overpriced ones at the local hardware store today, or order some TODAY online for much less money. I suggest the online route for CO and smoke detectors for another reason. CO detectors generally have a 7-10 year lifespan, and hardware store models may have 2-5 of those years wasted sitting on the shelf.

1) Right now its the best heating I have. ...

Yeah, I can understand that. I used one of these in my garage for a few years. What I did, was to open the garage door about a foot, and place the heater centered under it facing in. I would start and stop the heater facing outside, so the smoke wouldn't be blown inside, and then move it under the door while running. But mine didn't have a thermostat, and to me, the idea of a thermostat on one of these in anything more enclosed than a gazebo just seems too smoky for my taste.

As another thought, I saw at either Lowes or Home Depot that they have a heating device not unlike the torpedo heater I have hanging off the ceiling, but it fires into a long steel tube (basically an extension of the tube that encases the heater). I believe it has a tube to the outside air, and then the hot air is blasted through the tube and out. It heats the tube, creating radiant heating off of that. Would it be possible to make something like that from this torpedo? (Not that I am totally sure I have the room for it...)

NO NO NO! You MUST NOT duct a torpedo heater! That's a recipe for disaster in numerous ways.

Anyway, no these tube radiant heaters do not blow hot air through the tube. The combustion happens INSIDE the tube. They're a good idea for some garages, but because of limited headroom, probably wouldn't work well in yours or mine.

 

[MoonRise]

You don't need or want a

CO2 detector

(there are CO2 monitors, as well as all sorts of other gas monitors, but most of the time in 'ordinary' household circumstances you do not 'need' those types of monitors)

You want and NEED a CO (carbon monoxide) detector if you are using any sort of combustion heating process in an 'enclosed' space. IMNSHO.

Spend the ~$30 or so and get a CO detector with a digital readout.

Like this or similar:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N86A/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Besides the kerosene reek, your headaches are being caused (as mentioned already) most likely by carbon monoxide build-up (aka POISONING !!! ) in your blood stream from carbon monoxide from the kerosene heater.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide

Note the section/mention that at levels over about 35 ppm of CO, you are in danger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

At about 35 ppm Co exposure, the usual first symptom is HEADACHES.

But more than that, you need a safe(er) way to heat your garage/shop.

Don't use that 'salamander' or torpedo kerosene heater in the enclosed garage.

IMNSHO.

And do not go and try to 'modify' the heater.

 

[exploringnh]

Damn man.....you are killing yourself, or at least trying to. Read the instructions on those style of heaters and you ARE NOT supposed to use them in a sealed off area. And it's not the stink that will kill you, it's what doesn't stink that will do you in.



So for the ones that either have a death wish, or are too tight to spend the money, do yourself a favor, and especially ones you care about a favor, and get a proper heater for the garage. You guys probably piss away more than that on tools or vehicles. You can get a 45,000btu propane heater with a flue for around $800 installed, or less if you do everything yourself. And once you get a proper heater in your garage, you will like working out there way better than you do with a salamander style heater. Less noise and no stink



And take it from NUTTSGT also as he is in a business that deals with this sort of thing. Only when he deals with it, it's usually too late in one way or another.

I have a co monitor in the garage. It's never gone off. Garage must not be sealed as well as I think.

Someone else mentioned solvents in the air. Definitely causes big issues when using brake cleaner. Would not recommend.

 

[PolarrrBearrr]

Ok, got it. CO detector, not CO2.

Let me state for the record, that I have not, nor do I intend to, use any solvents or aerosol paints in my garage during the winter. I learned a long time ago not to do that in an enclosed space. Since I cannot really control the heat in there, I do not paint anything during the winter. If I need to use an aerosol, I step outside and use it.

Most of what I am doing lately is organizing and cleaning. I built my buddy a speaker enclosure, but there was no painting involved, and I dragged the table saw and router outside to work with the MDF (that is nasty stuff).

If I absolutely, positively have to use an aerosol inside, I open the door and raise the bay door one panel for fresh air, and make sure that the heater is OFF, and the respirator ON. I've been around too many campfires with idiots, a lighter and a can of bug spray.

...but its much easier to step outside for a second or two.

I would open the larger bay door and stick the **** end of this thing outside, but I would end up melting the front end of my Camaro project, among other things. That's why the man door makes more sense until I get things better organized and under control, and can take a better look at how to properly heat things up.

Unfortunately, my grandmother passed away two years ago, and I got all of Grandpa's tools that my father didn't want. Grandpa, BTW was a retired tool and die maker, and (apparently) collector of all sorts of tools - many of which I have already put to use in some woodworking projects.

Which also explains why the heater is so close to me in the first place. Stuff everywhere.

...but I digress. Work out there is on hold for the moment anyway since I have to get through my daughter's first birthday party this weekend. I wanted to check with you guys before I went any further. I'm not old, but I'm not in the best shape either, and I'd like to meet my grandkids or great-grandkids at some point.

I and my family thank you.

 

[rlitman]

Besides the kerosene reek, your headaches are being caused (as mentioned already) most likely by carbon monoxide build-up

Perhaps, but there are plenty of other toxic gases in the exhaust stream that can cause this as well, such as Nox. CO is just the most immediately deadly problem (i.e. low hanging fruit for this discussion).

I have a co monitor in the garage. It's never gone off. Garage must not be sealed as well as I think.

Residential CO detectors are not designed to go off at the first sign of CO. They have a set of thresholds and delays that are designed to prevent nuisance alarms, yet still provide life saving protection (at least from direct death from CO poisoning; though the dangers of an intoxicated/foggy mind in a workshop from lower levels of exposure are a more difficult question to answer).

The wikipedia article quoted above has the comment that headaches may appear at 35 ppm. Ok, but that only happens with prolonged exposure. It also says that " In the United States, the OSHA limits long-term workplace exposure levels to less than 50 ppm averaged over an 8-hour period".

For that reason, your CO detector is designed to never even make a sound below 30 ppm:
http://www.brkelectronics.com/faqs/oem/what_levels_of_co_cause_an_alarm

Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Standard UL2034 requires residential CO Alarms to sound when exposed to levels of CO and exposure times as described below. They are measured in parts per million (ppm) of CO over time (in minutes). UL2034 Required Alarm Points*:

If the Alarm is exposed to 400 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 4 and 15 MINUTES
If the Alarm is exposed to 150 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 10 and 50 MINUTES.
If the Alarm is exposed to 70 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 60 and 240 MINUTES.

So, back to your detector. If you bought a better quality detector with a digital display, even when it reads 60 ppm, the display will most likely show 000. The reasoning is that this is not a dangerous level, and showing a number will cause undue panic in people.
However, models with a display usually have a button that allows it to show either the current CO reading or perhaps the peak reading over the past few hours or so. If you press that button, you'd see it light up 060.

Doing this, I've seen as much as 040 in my garage, using the torpedo heater as I described above (intake in fresh air, with lots of fresh air exchange to the outside too).

 

[rlitman]

...I have to get through my daughter's first birthday party this weekend...

Congratulations, and have fun! I think you've got the message, and then some.

 

[laser3kw]

oh goodie! another thread about CO

Carbon Monoxide is likely giving you the headaches. It will kill you if you let it. At least install a CO detector for now.

x2

Residential CO detectors are not designed to go off at the first sign of CO. They have a set of thresholds and delays that are designed to prevent nuisance alarms, yet still provide life saving protection (at least from direct death from CO poisoning; though the dangers of an intoxicated/foggy mind in a workshop from lower levels of exposure are a more difficult question to answer).

The wikipedia article quoted above has the comment that headaches may appear at 35 ppm. Ok, but that only happens with prolonged exposure. It also says that " In the United States, the OSHA limits long-term workplace exposure levels to less than 50 ppm averaged over an 8-hour period".

For that reason, your CO detector is designed to never even make a sound below 30 ppm:
http://www.brkelectronics.com/faqs/o...cause_an_alarm

Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Standard UL2034 requires residential CO Alarms to sound when exposed to levels of CO and exposure times as described below. They are measured in parts per million (ppm) of CO over time (in minutes). UL2034 Required Alarm Points*:

If the Alarm is exposed to 400 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 4 and 15 MINUTES
If the Alarm is exposed to 150 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 10 and 50 MINUTES.
If the Alarm is exposed to 70 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM BETWEEN 60 and 240 MINUTES.

So, back to your detector. If you bought a better quality detector with a digital display, even when it reads 60 ppm, the display will most likely show 000. The reasoning is that this is not a dangerous level, and showing a number will cause undue panic in people.
However, models with a display usually have a button that allows it to show either the current CO reading or perhaps the peak reading over the past few hours or so. If you press that button, you'd see it light up 060.

Doing this, I've seen as much as 040 in my garage, using the torpedo heater as I described above (intake in fresh air, with lots of fresh air exchange to the outside too).

I burn propane in a 80k "construction heater" (looks like a trashcan) in a 30 x 40 x 12, well insulated garage. I also have a propane torpedo, but quit using it because the other one is quiet.
I have a CO detector like the link above with a read out. I burn propane for 4 to 5 hours and the readout will go from zero to maybe 9 or 10. It is true, I have to press the button to see "actual" - and I do - often!
I am confident using my propane heater and the CO detector re-assures me.
Get a CO detector and watch it.

 

[PolarrrBearrr]

Thanks rlitamn, and yes, it has been QUITE the education.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Wow, just looked this up. I had no idea such a tool existed. I can see how it could be invaluable.

I've got regular cheap pulse oximeters that measure SpO2, but those will give you a completely false good reading if there is any CO in the blood, as CO will turn hemoglobin bright red even better than O2. This has to be using a spectrum of color rather than just the red/infrared, in order to separate out the differences. Neat!



The blood has a strong affinity for CO, but a working CO detector (especially one with a digital readout), can easily detect CO at concentrations well below the danger level.

Yes, getting fresh air is key to ANY unvented combustion. If the oxygen levels inside decrease enough, any combustion heater will start to produce CO, as a product of incomplete combustion (AKA burning "rich", or oxygen starved). The nature of the aerosolized flame inside a torpedo heater also makes it more prone to producing CO when starved of oxygen than a wick kerosene heater.

We just used it today when we were called to check CO in an apt and the person was being treated at the hospital. We went to the hospital, showed the RAD57 to the ER doc and showed him where the reading can be show a false positive.

If a person smokes, they will have some CO in their system. If you ever have the chance to use one, keep the "smoking factor" in mind.

 

[alfazer]

Obviously there's the CO factor, but if you come home smelling of kerosene it sounds like the burner needs adjusted or there's some problem with the nozzle. You should have it serviced by a heating engineer.

 

[woody6904]

Went from a remington torpedo to a val6 MPX. Am really amazed at how clean this burns. Would notice a little stink on my clothes if i was around it all day when i ran bio red off road diesel thru it. Switched to non bio on road diesel, dont smell it at all now. Have it hooked to a thermostat and leave it set at 45 when i aint out there. Runs a couple times an hour. Slowly finishing the insulation in the shop and getting it more air tight, i think i will get a co monitor and post some results.

http://www.val6.com/products/view/mpx

 

[Jazz1]

I have used torpedo heaters under tarps when curing cement decades ago but I sure would not use one indoors. They were nauseating enough outdoors. Might as well be heating from the tailpipe of a truck ...JMHO

 

[CNGsaves]

Does the property have Natural Gas service ???

For upcoming future decades, NG will be lowest cost option for heat.

If no NG onsite, then next affordable option is Propane/LPG. I'd recommend a vented hanging LPG heater like Modine Hot Dawg, Reznor, Sterling Garage Guy, Mr Heater Big Maxx, Beacon Morris (Menards), etc. Put a couple 100 lb bottles of LPG outside garage and pipe it into the garage to your hanging heater.

Or another another safe immediate solution is LPG 18K Btu Mr Heater Big Buddy, They are often on sale at Northern Tool for little over $100 but also get the hose option to connect to 20 lb BBQ size bottle of propane. Price now is $139 but check www.RetailMeNot as often you get $20 off $100 purchase.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200307957_200307957

I've used that Big Buddy LPG heater in small enclosed hunting camper and had no problems, plus it has built in protections like Low Oxygen Sensor along with tipover protection.

PLEASE, PLEASE . . . quit using that Kerosene torpedo heater in enclosed space if you're getting headaches every time. You may just end up dead out there.

 

[Slowgsr]

I ran a 210k btu torpedo- burning diesel.

Just in a garage to warm up the space while I moved some things. For 15-20 min, roll up door was open a foot, and both windows.

Couldn't imagine long term running these things. However the fumes haven't been an issue

Good for temporary heat in very drafty spaces, but nothing that's close to sealed

 

[onewheat]

I have a torpedo heater I used like you did a bit for one winter - garage door open a foot and man door open a foot - seemed like it negated using it for the cold that came in. I has been in the box for 15+ years.

In my next house I used a chimney propane heater (well insulated 30x40 with 12' ceiling) to warm up the garage some, my digital CO detector never showed anything, but after leaving the garage and coming back in I could smell the fumes. It was nothing like the kerosene heater though. After intermittent use over the course of a weekend, my CO detector ALWAYS went off either Sunday night or was going off on Monday morning when I would go to get in my truck for work. No great answers for how to remedy things until you get some insulation and a better heater.

 

[PugetDude]

Never came across a kerosene heater that didn't stink. (there might be one out there, probably in Bigfoot's den...)

 

[cork]

Went from a remington torpedo to a val6 MPX. Am really amazed at how clean this burns. Would notice a little stink on my clothes if i was around it all day when i ran bio red off road diesel thru it. Switched to non bio on road diesel, dont smell it at all now. Have it hooked to a thermostat and leave it set at 45 when i aint out there. Runs a couple times an hour. Slowly finishing the insulation in the shop and getting it more air tight, i think i will get a co monitor and post some results.

http://www.val6.com/products/view/mpx

How did you hook it to a thermostat? Does the val6 have a cool down cycle when it turns off? They are nice heaters.

 

[woody6904]

How did you hook it to a thermostat? Does the val6 have a cool down cycle when it turns off? They are nice heaters.

These val6 heaters like the MPX have a place to plug in a thermostat. All you need is the plug, some wire and i prefer a digital thermostat that goes low enough to be useful. The one i got you can find on amazon and it goes down into the 30°s. Some thermostats wont go below 50°.

And yes they do have a cool down cycle, probably a minute or so. Been very happy with this heating my 16x40 shop with 16 foot ceiling.

 

[rlitman]

The val6 is much bigger than the OPs torpedo. The MH-70 is more comparable in both heat output and cost:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005IH7KSA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

A radiant kerosene will have less nasty fumes, and will burn closer in cleanliness to a wick kerosene heater. Perhaps clean enough to be used indoors a little, though it still carries the same CO risks.

 

[woody6904]

The val6 is much bigger than the OPs torpedo. The MH-70 is more comparable in both heat output and cost:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005IH7KSA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

A radiant kerosene will have less nasty fumes, and will burn closer in cleanliness to a wick kerosene heater. Perhaps clean enough to be used indoors a little, though it still carries the same CO risks.

How do you figure? My MPX is only 55-62,000 btu and i have only ever ran it on low. OPs is an 80,000.

http://www.val6.com/products/view/mpx

At work we have two Remingtons that are twins to the heater in ur amazon link. They dont even come close to comparing to a val6 MPX. They stink terrible compared to mine. We run them occasionally out in in uninsulated warehouse and they still stink it up.

Gonna have the wife pickup a digital readout CO monitor on the way home from work. Will post some results. Have always been curious cause val6 advertises only 1-2 ppm CO emission.

 

[cork]

How do you figure? My MPX is only 55-62,000 btu and i have only ever ran it on low. OPs is an 80,000.

http://www.val6.com/products/view/mpx

At work we have two Remingtons that are twins to the heater in ur amazon link. They dont even come close to comparing to a val6 MPX. They stink terrible compared to mine. We run them occasionally out in in uninsulated warehouse and they still stink it up.

Gonna have the wife pickup a digital readout CO monitor on the way home from work. Will post some results. Have always been curious cause val6 advertises only 1-2 ppm CO emission.

I agree,I have one of the master heaters. It makes a lot of heat for the price and is fairly quiet but not nearly as quiet as the val-6. And the master does stink at least on start up.