cp 717 air hammer/rivet gun

[larryforce]

Hi, I am considering buying a heavy duty rivet gun for automotive work. But I am having trouble buying anything locally that I can try out.
Does anyone know if the cp717 is a 9x riveter or is it rated lower

 

[Skin]

717 is more like a 5x I believe. You don't need a 7x or 9x rivet gun for automotive applications. Most heavy duty air hammers targeted toward automotive are comparable to 3x or 4x and in general if those don't get things moving the next step is heat, or start breaking things. 7 or 9x would be like using a sledge where a ball peen is better suited. Plus you severely limit your choice of bits to .498 and they're pricey.

 

[larryforce]

Thanks for the reply, a 717 seems like it has more then enough power. So mabey I'll look for something in the 5x range

 

[zkling]

Isn't the 717 a .498 hammer? I think it is around a 5 or 6x, but you would be best to call CP to get it directly from them as you are technically comparing two different product lines.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Isn't the 717 a .498 hammer?

Yep !

 

[dudutzu905]

717 is more like a 5x I believe. You don't need a 7x or 9x rivet gun for automotive applications. Most heavy duty air hammers targeted toward automotive are comparable to 3x or 4x and in general if those don't get things moving the next step is heat, or start breaking things. 7 or 9x would be like using a sledge where a ball peen is better suited. Plus you severely limit your choice of bits to .498 and they're pricey.

I have the 714 and the 717, I thought the 717 was 7x rated, either way some days I wish I had a 9x, don't get me wrong the 717 has plenty power, but this is GJ, I NEED a 9x

 

[Astro_Pneumatic_Tools]

You can buy the same thing and just pay less, these should be on shelves this month

https://scontent.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12662631_10153851019042383_5528898016373245358_n.jpg?oh=a17d3542c393ac83c7ffd3736c454282&oe=572DB34A


______________
Chris
Product Manager

 

[larryforce]

You can buy the same thing and just pay less, these should be on shelves this month

https://scontent.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12662631_10153851019042383_5528898016373245358_n.jpg?oh=a17d3542c393ac83c7ffd3736c454282&oe=572DB34A


______________
Chris
Product Manager

J found a local astro pneumatic dealer, just waiting to hear about the local CAD price

 

[larryforce]

If a cp717 has the power of a 5x, what would be the difference between the 717 and the cp 5x gun.

 

[Skin]

I have the 714 and the 717, I thought the 717 was 7x rated, either way some days I wish I had a 9x, don't get me wrong the 717 has plenty power, but this is GJ, I NEED a 9x

Fairly certain its more like a 5x. If you look at real 7x or 9x (not Chinese budget units) they generally have a stroke of 3" or more and likewise don't hit at 1800BPM, more like 1000-1500.

If a cp717 has the power of a 5x, what would be the difference between the 717 and the cp 5x gun.

They might be basically identical. Generally things marketed as Rivet guns have better trigger control/trigger valves than things marketed as air hammers.

 

[dudutzu905]

I get what you are saying, now what confuses me is that the 7x below has less bpm and longer stroke, yet less powerful than the 9x

Model Shank Diameter Bore & Stroke Blows per Min. Length Weight
T-5X .498 3/4" X 2 11/16 1,800 8 15/16" 4.75 lbs.
T-7X .498 3/4" X 5 13/16" 900 11 15/16" 6 lbs.
T-9X .498 3/4" X 3 7/8" 1,150 9 15/16" 5.37 lbs

 

[Bobioz1]

You can buy the same thing and just pay less, these should be on shelves this month

https://scontent.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12662631_10153851019042383_5528898016373245358_n.jpg?oh=a17d3542c393ac83c7ffd3736c454282&oe=572DB34A


______________
Chris
Product Manager

Biggest and baddest air hammer on the market? Cp 717 is legendary. And half the price of what?

 

[RedneckWelder]

I actually do need to get a 9x...think I'm gonna shoot for a used Atlas-Copco

 

[WhataTool]

Biggest and baddest air hammer on the market? Cp 717 is legendary. And half the price of what?

It is a CP717 for half the price, seems pretty clear to me :shrug:

 

[Bobioz1]

It's not a CP717 its an AP #4980 and if was built to simulate the real thing they should have called it the *****.

 

[CobraRed]

It's not a CP717 its an AP #4980 and if was built to simulate the real thing they should have called it the *****.

Was at SEMA, apparently made in same factory.

I don't think CP makes it exclusively, so it's not simulating anything other than itself.

 

[Finky198]

The Atlas Copco is the way to go if u can find a nice used one. I got one last year Its RRH12P-TS which I belive is a true 7x gun (rrh14 would be the 9x) with a proper trigger (TS stands for Trigger Start which is what you want for Automotive use) new their $1500+

They can be had used in the $200-400 dollar range in fairly decent shape.

The only issue I have had is finding chisel that can acctually handle the power it puts out, as it kicks like mule on roids :hitit: (13ftlbs per blow) after using it for a while the CP717 and Snappy3050 guns feel more like noise makers...

 

[dudutzu905]

The Atlas Copco is the way to go if u can find a nice used one. I got one last year Its RRH12P-TS which I belive is a true 7x gun (rrh14 would be the 9x) with a proper trigger new their $1500+

They can be had used in the $200-400 dollar range in fairly decent shape

The only issue I have had is finding chisel that can acctually handle the power it puts out as it kicks like mule (13ftlbs per blow) after using it for a while the CP717 and Snappy3050 guns feel more like noise makers...

...and it uses .498 bits, right? how much longer is the atlas vs 717?
also which kind/size of the quick change retainer does it accept/fit?

 

[Finky198]

not exactly sure but with the quick chuck my gun is 12-14" lol. Ill try and post a picture later. I thought I would have issue with access tight places But some how I Always make it fit...

yes it does use .498 chisel of which i have still not found a reliable bit yet im gonna try Ajax brand chisel next. I will keep yah posted on that. Stay away from the GP.498 chisel there not worth a dime...

Ajax is the brand of quick chuck best suited for the gun I've been very happy so far, but it was a bit of a nightmare trying to source a nylon replacment washer for for my chuck. Larry at Ajax was a huge help and was able to figure out all the part numbers and even shiped me the $15 part for FREE (go AJAX)


This guns are really worth there weight in gold id like to get a 2x and 4x gun to make a set

 

[Mohawk Dave]

not exactly sure but with the quick chuck my gun is 12-14" lol. Ill try and post a picture later. I thought I would have issue with access tight places But some how I Always make it fit...

yes it does use .498 chisel of which i have still not found a reliable bit yet im gonna try Ajax brand chisel next. I will keep yah posted on that. Stay away from the GP.498 chisel there not worth a dime...

Ajax is the brand of quick chuck best suited for the gun I've been very happy so far, but it was a bit of a nightmare trying to source a nylon replacment washer for for my chuck. Larry at Ajax was a huge help and was able to figure out all the part numbers and even shiped me the $15 part for FREE (go AJAX)


This guns are really worth there weight in gold id like to get a 2x and 4x gun to make a set

Thanks for that tidbit on the GP set. I was ready to get some. I'll stick to Ajax. Got a ton for .401, and I know they're good.

 

[larryforce]

Thanks for all the great information

 

[Finky198]

No problem My phones dead when i get a chance I will add pics and part#...

Ebay is your friend when buying used atlas copco stuff

The only thing is make sure its a TS ( Trigger Start ) version....

 

[RedneckWelder]

Finky thanks for the model numbers.

 

[Finky198]

NO Problem . Can I ask what you plan on using it for???

forgot a MAJOR TIP:::: do "NOT" over oil it

 

[RedneckWelder]

NO Problem . Can I ask what you plan on using it for???

forgot a MAJOR TIP:::: do "NOT" over oil it

Thanks

I'm a heavy equipment mechanic and I want something that hits hard for when I need to hit **** in close quarters, where its awkward or impossible to swing a big sledge

 

[Mikefromcny]

Buy the 717! I'm also a heavy equipment mechanic. Makes my 3050 look like a joke. Keep an eye on ebay. I found a NIB 717 kit ( carrying case with 3 bits). top bid was $330.

 

[vssjim]

I am very happy with my CP 717 ans my CP 714 for smaller stuff and they work great and all my 498 shank tools are Ajax tools and have never broke one yet and they are a great value as well

 

[oldtools]

If you have alot of money to burn.

http://www.neobits.com/chicago_pneu...html?atc=gbp&gclid=CP6A07fA8coCFQ6LaQod_3gH3g

 

[Finky198]

^^^ that why you go for a used atlas copco a save a ton of money. Lol

Until you put an atlas copco 7x/9x Rivet gun In Someone hand and have them use it they will never truly understand the difference between it and common larger air hammers (i.e. CP717, snappy 3050 ), both of which are solid performers, but its like comparing 48oz estwing hammer to an 8lb sledgehammer there just In a different league... Not to mention I can dial the power down to hit like 48oz estwing and have trigger control down to a single impact throughout the entire range... The precision is why your paying such a premium when new

Here's a pic Atlas copco RRH12P-ts with
Ajax quick Chuck pt#( coming soon)

 

[oldtools]

^^^ that why you go for a used atlas copco a save a ton of money. Lol

Until you put an atlas copco 7x/9x Rivet gun In Someone hand and have them use it they will never truly understand the difference between it and common larger air hammers (i.e. CP717, snappy 3050 ), both of which are solid performers, but its like comparing 48oz estwing hammer to an 8lb sledgehammer there just In a different league... Not to mention I can dial the power down to hit like 48oz estwing and have trigger control down to a single impact throughout the entire range... The precision is why your paying such a premium when new

Here's a pic Atlas copco RRH12P-ts with
Ajax quick Chuck pt#( coming soon)

That is a very nice rivet gun. Atlas Copco owned CP. Wonder if the two share the same internal.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I actually do need to get a 9x...think I'm gonna shoot for a used Atlas-Copco

I did...no regrets. I've got a 3x CP Riveter for the normal jobs. And a 7X Atlas Copco for when nothing else will do it.

Biggest and baddest air hammer on the market? Cp 717 is legendary. And half the price of what?

Not quite...may be big & bad in your shop but the 717 is nothing special.

The only issue I have had is finding chisel that can acctually handle the power it puts out, as it kicks like mule on roids :hitit: (13ftlbs per blow) after using it for a while the CP717 and Snappy3050 guns feel more like noise makers...

Yup, I could easily confuse the 3050 for the 5.99 HF Air Chisel kit if you blindfolded me.
my 7X Atlas Copco kicks so hard I feel it in my whole arm after using it. Definitely one of those tools I only take out when I HAVE to. 95% of the time my 3X CP Riveter does the job. I see why they discontinued the "plain version" and now only offer the recoilless versions.

 

[Finky198]

To "Old Tools"
even tho they might have been produce by the same company... The design of the cp717 is actually quite old that style and design of gun has been around a long time 20-30+ years, As said above Atlas copco used to produce a similar design but discontinued them for the much more user freindly Anti vibe and recoilless RRH series guns

They have really built the ultimate air Hammer

 

[larryforce]

There are a couple of the exact model pictured above on ebay for a decent price, I am so tempted to pull the trigger, but I don't think my finances will allow it today

 

[larryforce]

I just bought this one. I hope it's as good as I expect it to be
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/182023731987?u...srcrot=e11102.m454.l1123&rvr_id=0&_mwBanner=1

The seller has one more listed and excepted an offer if 100 usd if anyone else is intersted

 

[md21722]

Bringing this one back up.

I recently picked up a Atlas Copco RRH08P-TS off eBay. I believe its a 4X because it takes standard .401 Parker shank air hammer bits. The next size up RRH10P-TS takes .498 shank.

The only issue I've got with it is that the spring doesn't hold the air hammer bits real well. I am not sure if I need a new spring, or if it that's just the way these are with the bigger air hammer bits? If have a bit in there and just press the trigger it will often just shoot the spring out with the bit onto the ground??? I would love to get a quick chuck for it anyone makes one? Since its an Atlas Copco everything is Metric. Its also very loud and requires ear protection when hammering metal. Most of my air tools do not.

 

[larryforce]

Bringing this one back up.

I recently picked up a Atlas Copco RRH08P-TS off eBay. I believe its a 4X because it takes standard .401 Parker shank air hammer bits. The next size up RRH10P-TS takes .498 shank.

The only issue I've got with it is that the spring doesn't hold the air hammer bits real well. I am not sure if I need a new spring, or if it that's just the way these are with the bigger air hammer bits? If have a bit in there and just press the trigger it will often just shoot the spring out with the bit onto the ground??? I would love to get a quick chuck for it anyone makes one? Since its an Atlas Copco everything is Metric. Its also very loud and requires ear protection when hammering metal. Most of my air tools do not.

Don't pull the trigger unless you have the bit held against something. This is normal

 

[md21722]

Don't pull the trigger unless you have the bit held against something. This is normal

Thanks. With a quick chuck I never had any issue. But this makes sense.

 

[Olafur]

About a year ago I bought two Atlas Copco rivet guns off ebay. 4 and 7x (same as Finky is displaying above). I have used them quite a bit and have no complaints. Very good trigger control, don't know about power since I have very little relative comparison to other guns. The 4x gun removes bearing sleeves 3-5" diameter (think pinion bearings in 1 ton trucks, farm tractors etc.) without problems. Takes few seconds. The 7x gun sends them flying across the shop, with good chisel it cuts the head off 10mm 8.8 bolts in few blows and basically has the power to move things you can't move with 5lb BFH unless you got all day.


Agreed; Grey Pneumatic chisels are soft. Mayhew, at least some of them are also soft.

 

[Olafur]

You can buy the same thing and just pay less, these should be on shelves this month
______________
Chris
Product Manager

Energy per blow, do you have the number?

 

[Olafur]

here are some numbers about energy per blow. Generally speaking this can be translated to: how hard do they hit.

The biggest Atlas Copco air riveter using the smaller 0.401 shank is the RRH06P and it delivers 6 joules per blow. (4x rivet gun)

CP717 using .498 shank = 7,3 joules (5x?)

Atlas RRH08P rivet gun uses the bigger shank 0.498 and delivers 8 joules per blow and is rated 5x gun
http://www.atlascopco.us/usus/produc...50560/1468309/

Atlas 7x rivet gun, RRH12P delivers 16 joules per blow.