KMScott
Well-known member
Very nice Joe, agree with CNG, more pictures of the Stephens and Athol. You sure **** on this collection.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
jakemac
Well-known member
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, WAIT !!?????!!
Joe, I thought those Columbians only came in 4". Are you sure it's 3.5 ??
If so, it would be the first one I've heard of.
Joe, I thought those Columbians only came in 4". Are you sure it's 3.5 ??
If so, it would be the first one I've heard of.
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Rockford73
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2012
- Messages
- 11
Vise #4 Emmert 6A Universal Machinist Vise
(See post #41594, Page 2080 for my previous posting)
It is well known on this forum that I am partial to the Columbian line of vises, largely for sentimental reasons, but also as a student of industrial history. Like many low level technologies, the barriers to entry in the vise industry were low and the tendency for the market to saturate is high. This forces manufacturers to innovate, reduce cost, and strive for a niche that they can inhabit profitably.
Emmert Manufacturing found an interesting niche in the relatively high end, specialized vise market. I have two of their most exotic vises, the previously posted 6A Universal Machinist Vise and a Turtleback Patternmaker’s Vise. Each of these has achieved cult status it appears, although I was unaware of it when I obtained them.
The 6A, and its larger brother the 4A, have three axes of rotation: a convention 360 degree swivel base (with the mother of all swivel base lock handles), a 90 degree horizontal to vertical pivot for the axis of the jaws, and a 3 position rotary axis that indexes one of three jaw pairs into position.
The 6A (3 inch jaws, 5 inch range, and 55 pounds) cost $25 in 1920. The 4A (4 inch jaw, 6 inch range, and 100 pound!!) cost $30 dollars. This was serious money back then, so the cost certainly limited the market to larger industries, the military, and perhaps schools or other governmental entities.
This vise came out of an old technical (vocational) high school in Illinois, much the worse for wear but completely intact. It was covered in grime, and the dynamic jaw casting was mis-machined such that the jaws were 1/8 inch out of alignment.
The vise was completely torn down, the keyway patched and remachined, and everything stripped by electrolysis. Since there was no indication of ever having been painted, I decided to apply a vintage hot oil finish.
The finish is a witch’s brew of turpentine, paraffin, and Japan drier. This coagulates into a waxy, oily paste that is heated until it melts. The parts are also heated (about 200 degrees) and the toxic cocktail is brushed on and left to cool. The process must be done outside since it generates a noisome plume of nostril burning, cancer inducing vapor. The whole area reeks for a couple of days, but the resulting finish is very durable, rust-proof, and visually appealing.
As clever as the Emmert vises are, the overall quality wasn’t great. The castings are very rough and unfilled; full of voids, and the machining was clearly done in a hurry. I don’t wonder that this was the result of economic pressures to get costs down and sales up. The triple jaw scheme seems like a solution looking for problem. It is hard to believe that the problem of going from serrated to smooth jaws justifies such an overblown solution.
(See post #41594, Page 2080 for my previous posting)
It is well known on this forum that I am partial to the Columbian line of vises, largely for sentimental reasons, but also as a student of industrial history. Like many low level technologies, the barriers to entry in the vise industry were low and the tendency for the market to saturate is high. This forces manufacturers to innovate, reduce cost, and strive for a niche that they can inhabit profitably.
Emmert Manufacturing found an interesting niche in the relatively high end, specialized vise market. I have two of their most exotic vises, the previously posted 6A Universal Machinist Vise and a Turtleback Patternmaker’s Vise. Each of these has achieved cult status it appears, although I was unaware of it when I obtained them.
The 6A, and its larger brother the 4A, have three axes of rotation: a convention 360 degree swivel base (with the mother of all swivel base lock handles), a 90 degree horizontal to vertical pivot for the axis of the jaws, and a 3 position rotary axis that indexes one of three jaw pairs into position.
The 6A (3 inch jaws, 5 inch range, and 55 pounds) cost $25 in 1920. The 4A (4 inch jaw, 6 inch range, and 100 pound!!) cost $30 dollars. This was serious money back then, so the cost certainly limited the market to larger industries, the military, and perhaps schools or other governmental entities.
This vise came out of an old technical (vocational) high school in Illinois, much the worse for wear but completely intact. It was covered in grime, and the dynamic jaw casting was mis-machined such that the jaws were 1/8 inch out of alignment.
The vise was completely torn down, the keyway patched and remachined, and everything stripped by electrolysis. Since there was no indication of ever having been painted, I decided to apply a vintage hot oil finish.
The finish is a witch’s brew of turpentine, paraffin, and Japan drier. This coagulates into a waxy, oily paste that is heated until it melts. The parts are also heated (about 200 degrees) and the toxic cocktail is brushed on and left to cool. The process must be done outside since it generates a noisome plume of nostril burning, cancer inducing vapor. The whole area reeks for a couple of days, but the resulting finish is very durable, rust-proof, and visually appealing.
As clever as the Emmert vises are, the overall quality wasn’t great. The castings are very rough and unfilled; full of voids, and the machining was clearly done in a hurry. I don’t wonder that this was the result of economic pressures to get costs down and sales up. The triple jaw scheme seems like a solution looking for problem. It is hard to believe that the problem of going from serrated to smooth jaws justifies such an overblown solution.
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Ratchet Guy
Well-known member
![20160227_183549[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/416/416536-8e01b06eaad6df7433da3e2010a64b35.jpg)
![20160227_183647[1].jpg](/forum/data/attachments/416/416580-949ebfa53bcb70ca097377310deb2a70.jpg)
slotard
Well-known member
I managed to snag that one today. He also had a Rigid that was a bit smaller that a friend grabbed.I hear you but this is one of those exceptions, take a look at what balane did to one and his comments.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4709148&postcount=26345
Otherwise stay patient and advise finding one that will not require crazy hours to get working properly again. There will always be another vise out there.
Like this one: Reed #204-1/2 Machinist Vise ($80)
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/5466598340.html
it was right on the way on our trip to Reno to pick up a trailer, otherwise would've been a decent drive.
joe.striper
Well-known member
I promise more pics tomorrow. I have 2 Stephen's vises now. My new favorites.
Shiftless
Well-known member
Been working in the garage...
Dunlap 3v7627 3 1/8 inch wide jaws
Estate sale find. Paid $15
Just needed cleaning...replaceable jaws in excellent condition...still has the original green paint!
Can anybody give a date approximation?
No "Dunlap" cast into the sides. I believe there used to be an oval shaped sticker on it. Note the unusual swivel locking lever. Square headed bolt underneath.
Dunlap 3v7627 3 1/8 inch wide jaws
Estate sale find. Paid $15
Just needed cleaning...replaceable jaws in excellent condition...still has the original green paint!
Can anybody give a date approximation?
No "Dunlap" cast into the sides. I believe there used to be an oval shaped sticker on it. Note the unusual swivel locking lever. Square headed bolt underneath.
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macgee
Well-known member
I managed to snag that one today.
it was right on the way on our trip to Reno to pick up a trailer, otherwise would've been a decent drive.
Glad we were able to talk you out of the broken Parker and help you find the Reed. 4-1/2" Reed is a tough vise.
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Shiftless
Well-known member
Slotard: Macgee is right. A much better deal than that busted Parker 
slotard
Well-known member
I was figuring it wasn't a good idea to buy it. I'd still kinda like something larger every now and then, on the other hand if weight increases about with cube of size and this 4.5" weighs 68lb (per my bathroom scale), I'm not sure how easy it would be to move a 6"... it would weigh 90% of what I do.
The guy I bought it from is a vise enthusiast and his wife decided he has too many, so he had to sell a couple.
It wasn't so much that the other one was what I was looking for, I was just seeing very few reasonable options. Of course, the day after I buy one at an ok deal I find a great deal on another, that's just how life works.
The guy I bought it from is a vise enthusiast and his wife decided he has too many, so he had to sell a couple.
It wasn't so much that the other one was what I was looking for, I was just seeing very few reasonable options. Of course, the day after I buy one at an ok deal I find a great deal on another, that's just how life works.
slotard
Well-known member
He was even nice enough to drop the price since we were picking up both. Wasn't gonna ask for it, but not gonna turn it down either.
Any guesses on age of each?
Any guesses on age of each?
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Slot: since you have a Reed with the R after the # I think it's from 50's maybe early 60's, but that is from memory tonight. Reed didn't date their vises like Wilton or Rock Island and a few other companies did.
you have my vote with your buying choice between your Reed 204.5 and that old Parker.
you have my vote with your buying choice between your Reed 204.5 and that old Parker.
RHJO51
Well-known member
I finally had time to finish cleaning and wire brushing my well used Reed 204 and the Parker 449. The Reed looks so small compared to the parker even through the jaws are about the same size. I'm trying to decide on the finish - BLO or paint. I can see traces of black paint on the Parker. Any recommendations? - Jim
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
RHJ: unless you are going to sell them the unwritten rule is your vise (vice) your color. personally i'd just rub on some more BLO now and every few months and have those NAKED vises mounted to my bench. With those two vises in yours or anybody's shop you might not need anything else for your benches to work on.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
As said, your vise, your choice, but if I had the 449, I'd be thinking of a Japanned finish; It matches the original color, and ties in historically to the era, whether Parker used such or not.
Shiftless
Well-known member
RHJ:
Yes, absolutely, your vise, your color.
But you have done the hardest part already, the stripping. So why not display the evidence since it seems to me that you have nothing to hide and leave it bare. If you had a vise with major grinder or hacksaw marks that had to be filled you would probably choose paint. But it looks like you don't. Wipe it down with BLO once in a while and watch the beautiful patina of aged cast iron develop.
Just for the record, here is a close up of the front end of my newer model, a 956. Looks like some kind of industrial bluish green or maybe Hunter green that I found under the dirty rattle can silver. Seems original but I might be wrong. No black paint under any parts of the vise.
BTW, can anybody say whether the threaded handle ends are original or is my handle a victim of previous owner repair/modification?
Yes, absolutely, your vise, your color.
But you have done the hardest part already, the stripping. So why not display the evidence since it seems to me that you have nothing to hide and leave it bare. If you had a vise with major grinder or hacksaw marks that had to be filled you would probably choose paint. But it looks like you don't. Wipe it down with BLO once in a while and watch the beautiful patina of aged cast iron develop.
Just for the record, here is a close up of the front end of my newer model, a 956. Looks like some kind of industrial bluish green or maybe Hunter green that I found under the dirty rattle can silver. Seems original but I might be wrong. No black paint under any parts of the vise.
BTW, can anybody say whether the threaded handle ends are original or is my handle a victim of previous owner repair/modification?
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CRSINMICH
Well-known member
I just finished posting this on the Vise Repair thread but I thought everyone would get a bang out of this. (I couldn't resist the pun, sorry.)
Here is a blast from the past – literally. From the May, 1917 issue of American Machinists magazine this article is how to make a Cannon for Removing Rusted Bolts. They mean an actual cannon. It’s a little hard to make out some of the words so I typed it out. Finally, a foolproof method for dealing with stuck swivel pins. Caution: Remember to use this method ONLY during lunch break.
When repairing locomotives in the shop, it is necessary to remove dozens of bolts, take frames apart, cylinders off, etc. Some of these are in so tight that they cannot be driven out with a sledge, and often they have to be drilled out.
The cannon, illustrated herewith, will take tight bolts out in a hurry. To the left of the diagram are shown a top and sectional view of the device, the fuse hole, and the depression at the bottom. The plungers are 1/16 in. less in diameter than the bore of the cannon, which is 2¼ in. Paper is wrapped around the plunger to make it airtight.
The plunger with the reduced-sized end is used where a bolt is broken off flush with the frame. The diameter is such that it will enter the hole when the explosion takes place and loosen the bolt. After it is once started, the bolt comes out easily. The flat end plunger is used where the ends of a bolt protrude. Care must be taken when using this outfit to see that the plunger, when set in on top of the powder, is tight against the offending bolt. This is easily done by driving a wedge under the cannon, but it must be set squarely. No tamping is necessary, as the paper wrapped round the plunger answers the purpose.
It is best to use this cannon during the noon hour, when there are not so many men in the shop, and to put heavy blocking around it and on top of the bolt, so that the bolt will not fly or the cannon do any injury. The man using the “gun” should have a helper who will keep everyone away while the cannon is doing its work. This contrivance is a good thing to have, and I have never heard of any one being hurt, as the necessary precautions are always taken. We use smokeless powder from about ⅝ to 1 in. deep in the cannon.
Here is a blast from the past – literally. From the May, 1917 issue of American Machinists magazine this article is how to make a Cannon for Removing Rusted Bolts. They mean an actual cannon. It’s a little hard to make out some of the words so I typed it out. Finally, a foolproof method for dealing with stuck swivel pins. Caution: Remember to use this method ONLY during lunch break.
CANNON FOR REMOVING RUSTED BOLTS
By Joseph K. Long
American Machinist May, 1917
American Machinist May, 1917
When repairing locomotives in the shop, it is necessary to remove dozens of bolts, take frames apart, cylinders off, etc. Some of these are in so tight that they cannot be driven out with a sledge, and often they have to be drilled out.
The cannon, illustrated herewith, will take tight bolts out in a hurry. To the left of the diagram are shown a top and sectional view of the device, the fuse hole, and the depression at the bottom. The plungers are 1/16 in. less in diameter than the bore of the cannon, which is 2¼ in. Paper is wrapped around the plunger to make it airtight.
The plunger with the reduced-sized end is used where a bolt is broken off flush with the frame. The diameter is such that it will enter the hole when the explosion takes place and loosen the bolt. After it is once started, the bolt comes out easily. The flat end plunger is used where the ends of a bolt protrude. Care must be taken when using this outfit to see that the plunger, when set in on top of the powder, is tight against the offending bolt. This is easily done by driving a wedge under the cannon, but it must be set squarely. No tamping is necessary, as the paper wrapped round the plunger answers the purpose.
It is best to use this cannon during the noon hour, when there are not so many men in the shop, and to put heavy blocking around it and on top of the bolt, so that the bolt will not fly or the cannon do any injury. The man using the “gun” should have a helper who will keep everyone away while the cannon is doing its work. This contrivance is a good thing to have, and I have never heard of any one being hurt, as the necessary precautions are always taken. We use smokeless powder from about ⅝ to 1 in. deep in the cannon.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
CRS, I keep getting s postage stamp from the image link.
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
I don't know what happened to that. It's just a scan of the original article. I'll try to get the illustration from the article posted. Good stuff though, eh. The principle is the same as a method I used to remove a stuck arbor from a chuck although the force came from a hammer blow and not an explosion.CRS, I keep getting s postage stamp from the image link.
HCNDM
Well-known member
My first Vise was one that borrowed from when Dad to do some work on a motorcycle project. This was shortly after finishing high school.
He forgot he lent it to me and bought a new one to replace it.
When I returned the vise after a few months he went.. "Oh that's where it was, you might as well keep it... Every man should own a Vise."
And so I became the owner of a York 80L. Some 15 years later that York is still my go to. Despite having a record #4, a Heuer, and the monstrous East German thing I picked up last year. The York seems to work well for 90% of my projects.
All of that said 15 years of beating on and various moisture conditions had left their mark.
Decided to disassemble, de rust, paint, and re-assemble my favorite. All my vises are users so a functional restore.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He forgot he lent it to me and bought a new one to replace it.
When I returned the vise after a few months he went.. "Oh that's where it was, you might as well keep it... Every man should own a Vise."
And so I became the owner of a York 80L. Some 15 years later that York is still my go to. Despite having a record #4, a Heuer, and the monstrous East German thing I picked up last year. The York seems to work well for 90% of my projects.
All of that said 15 years of beating on and various moisture conditions had left their mark.
Decided to disassemble, de rust, paint, and re-assemble my favorite. All my vises are users so a functional restore.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Nice job and nice vise!
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
bagged89s10
Well-known member
This rock island might just be the smoothest and most responsive vise I own or have owned. Rock island 594. 4.5" jaws.
meatsis
Well-known member
This rock island might just be the smoothest and most responsive vise I own or have owned. Rock island 594. 4.5" jaws.
Veeps I couldn't agree more on the RI vises. I've owned over 200 USA made machinists vises and the Rock Islands are by far some of the toughest, smoothest working vises I've seen. The only 2 I have left are the 6 inch 577 and its non swiveling brother the 597. Both of which came out of a 3rd generation welding shop in NJ. And somehow both look barely used. I love them so much that the 577 is my main vise.
bagged89s10
Well-known member
Yeah I have this one and also this craftsman rock island made vise. They are both tough as nails and the jaws are the toughest I've seen yet.
Great vise... now be a good boy and wire wheel the pain off of the slide... PLEASE.I managed to snag that one today. He also had a Rigid that was a bit smaller that a friend grabbed.
it was right on the way on our trip to Reno to pick up a trailer, otherwise would've been a decent drive.
Shiftless
Well-known member
Ok...the gauntlet has been thrown ...who's gonna build and test one of these? Gentlemen, start your CNC mills!
But we don't want to lose members with actions that in some circles begin with the words "hey y'all WATCH THIS"
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RHJO51
Well-known member
Thanks Guys, I decided to go with the BLO for now and I'm rally please with the look. I decided to remove my old broken Parker 271 1/2 swivel head vise from the bench to make some room for the new ones. Is there any hope for this cracked 271? Or is it just a parts vise? I'm going to get rid of it, thoughts on price as is? Thanks - JimRHJ:
Yes, absolutely, your vise, your color.
But you have done the hardest part already, the stripping. So why not display the evidence since it seems to me that you have nothing to hide and leave it bare. If you had a vise with major grinder or hacksaw marks that had to be filled you would probably choose paint. But it looks like you don't. Wipe it down with BLO once in a while and watch the beautiful patina of aged cast iron develop.
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slotard
Well-known member
It's a friend's, not mine. I think I got the better deal at $70 vs $60 for that one... any idea on age of that one?
It also has "vise" painted on the other side. Good thing, otherwise I wouldn't have known what it was.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Organ, I think that was painted only up to the body of the vise, which I have seen before both factory and here on GJ on restores. I've mixed feelings on that.
slotard
Well-known member
Anything can be repaired, doesn't mean it'll ever be the same.
I suspect the easiest repair method would involve getting rid of the swivel function. Not perfect, and it would still involve a fair amount of work to do reasonably. If you have access to a mill and a flycutter it shouldn't be all that hard to make the swivel work too, but there are a lot of people out there with an oxy/fuel rig to braze with but no mill. Pull it apart, drill out the end of the hole, V out the cracks, clean it up well, throw it in a BBQ at 500F for a couple hours, braze it up, then either bury it in sand or throw it back in the BBQ as hot as it'll go and then after a little bit close off the vents to let it slow cool. After that's done you can clean up the surface if you want it to swivel again.
Fretters
Well-known member
It only needs drilling and tapping for two or three screws, through the top portion into the body, to make a decent repair. Any of a screw, bolt or patch plate repair, with cast iron, is as practical a repair method as braze.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
I'm with Fret on this one. Drill three holes for tapping, Clearance drill to the crack, counter bore that for a socket head screw, tap the bottom section, and then heat the section before bolting it down.
Put the piece in an oven and let it bake at 500 for a hour or two, to get that heat deep; then go at it with a torch, maybe sit it on top of a camp stove flame while you do to keep it heated.
Then screw it down and cool slowly. You could also (pre) grind and weld the outside cracks while its good and hot.
EDIT: Cool Slowly...
Put the piece in an oven and let it bake at 500 for a hour or two, to get that heat deep; then go at it with a torch, maybe sit it on top of a camp stove flame while you do to keep it heated.
Then screw it down and cool slowly. You could also (pre) grind and weld the outside cracks while its good and hot.
EDIT: Cool Slowly...
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econotrk
Well-known member
Just finished my Chas Parker 493. I picked this up because I wanted a nice, smaller vise for, well, smaller work. I don't do much to remove the well earned marks that any type of tool has, part of the character to me. Now just have to find a good place to mount it.
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macgee
Well-known member
RHJ,
That's strange that would have happened. Are you able to remove the swing jaw portion? I don't how that would have happened unless the big pivot pin is missing or broken and the locking pin was out. If so, That would easily would have cracked that back part of the vise. There's a couple of scenarios I could think of why that would happen like the jaw was swiveled and there was **** wedging the swivel jaw into the back of the vise and then the vise was clamped hard transferring the energy to the back of vise but if the pivot pin and locking pin were properly installed then that would be pretty hard to crack.
Repairing would be a hassle and would never be the same. If the pivot pin is good, you continue to use it for light duty. You could also make into a fixed non swivel jaw vise but only if you would really needed to.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Econ, I love that "Big Bear" model of the Parkers! Nice job!