Most Electric-Miserly Heat Type?

[Bull]

I only ran 60 amps to my barn for the sub-panel. So, I don't think I can run any type of heat that ***** a lot of electricity. I am hoping to get some type of heat in my barn before winter so that I can do some work out there during the cold months. What types of heaters work well and are easy on electricity? Natural gas is not available here, and burning wood is out.

Part of the issue is that I have no concept of what any types of garage heaters draw for power

Thanks for any input.

 

[walrus]

I only ran 60 amps to my barn for the sub-panel. So, I don't think I can run any type of heat that ***** a lot of electricity. I am hoping to get some type of heat in my barn before winter so that I can do some work out there during the cold months. What types of heaters work well and are easy on electricity? Natural gas is not available here, and burning wood is out.

Part of the issue is that I have no concept of what any types of garage heaters draw for power

Thanks for any input.

How big a room, insulation, air infiltration, windows, doors all figure into a answer. Electric heat in the new england isn't very economical, period

 

[Gary S]

When it comes to electric heat, it really doesn't matter. All electric heaters are basically 100% efficient, so you get out what you put in.
Some things like infrared heat make you "feel" a little warmer if you are in the path of the infrared.

 

[Bull]

Just to clarify, I am not looking for electric heat...in fact I assume that will be the costliest method to heat the structure and the one that uses the most juice.

Walls are 2x6 with R-19. R-30 in the ceilings. Building was wrapped before siding was put on, so it should be fairly tight. Garage doors are insulated, though I can't recall the R-value off-hand.

 

[rieferman]

Would propane be possible in your area?

 

[Bull]

Yes, propane is a possibility. It does scare me a bit as a fuel, though...I just got done reading the thread at the top of this forum about propane and natural gas.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Propane has its dangers, but no more than any other form of heating, including electric. Get a tank from a supplier, hook up your heater, have the supplier leak test the system, and be warm. Go vented though.

 

[Falcon67]

Here's my heater - dual burner Mr. Heater on a 7 1/2 gallon propane tank with a $20 Walmart floor fan.

Works very well in my insulated building. I usually crack the window behind it for combustible air and don't have to run it a real long time.

 

[Mattlt]

Propane has its dangers, but no more than any other form of heating, including electric. Get a tank from a supplier, hook up your heater, have the supplier leak test the system, and be warm. Go vented though.

I would agree with that. Vented is the only way to go. Virtually eliminates the hazards of CO (get a detector or two anyway, just in case). Also, there's a lot of condensation when burning propane - that moisture has to go somewhere.

 

[Bull]

Are those Hot Dawg heaters that people mount high up on corners of garage walls vented?

 

[Bull]

Falcon67, how cold does it get in Texas, mid '60s?

Just bustin' chops.

 

[walrus]

What about a miller gun furnace, the kind they use in trailers. In Maine they can be found pretty cheap. Hot air, no freeze worries so you can shut the place down no problem, should heat up pretty quick. The only issue would be a tank and where to put it. Probably have a 1/3hp blower motor so it shouldn't be too bad electricity wise

 

[Fast Orange]

Looks like two fuel choices and a couple of styles of heater will do what you want.
My first fuel choice would be propane-less initial cost,no pollution worries and low fuel cost,plus you can find both cieling hung and floor standing equipment.A ceiling hung unit heater is relatively cheap,out of the way and probably the best solution for you.My second choice would be a floor standing unit that could be set up with an a coil for a/c if you wanted.The downside of the floor unit is that you need some rudimentary ductwork to distribute the heat throughout the shop.You may have to elevate a floor unit about 2 feet also-to get the flame above any fumes from a gas spill.
The only other advantage to a floor unit is that it gives you another fuel choice-home heating oil.Probably the safest heating fuel,it has a couple of downsides.Your up-front cost will be higher,since you will need to have a fuel tank along with whatever spill containment is required in your area,and you will probably have to pay upfront for the fuel.In most cases,a propane tank is supplied by the company you buy the prpane from,and the propane is billed as you use it.
In the case of any of the heaters I've mentioned,a 15A 120V circuit is all you will need to run.The only electric in these units runs the controls,burner and blower fan.

 

[Falcon67]

Falcon67, how cold does it get in Texas, mid '60s?

Just bustin' chops.

Frostly he replied "60 is an ice storm in Houston" Out here in the west, mid 20s in the winter. Not much snow, mostly ice storms. Then again, we've run the A/C on Christmas Day too.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I would recommend a gas unit heater (vented) such as a Modine unit.

The power requirement is quite small.

Since you are concerned about safety, I'd recommend buying a new unit from a reputable dealer and having a plumber install it for you.

The biggest danger you face isn't the propane per se...it's the propane coupled with a junky old heater and shoddy workmanship. If you get a new heater and get a pro to install it, it SHOULD give you years and years of trouble free use.

Phil

 

[nate379]

What about a fuel oil furnace? That is what Walrus is talking about. Miller is a popular brand.

My Dad has one in 2 of his shops, along with a wood stove as well. Same with the house. They use the oil furnace for back up or if it't too warm for a fire like i n the spring and fall.

 

[rieferman]

I have one of those free standing propane burners like Falcon shows above, but mine is just one element and I use a standard size propane tank (like used for bbq grill). I'm in PA, so winters get cold, but then again, only heat up about a single garage bay's worth of space at any given time. Works great, easy and cheap. I too use a small fan behind the unit to push the air where I want it.

 

[burger]

FWIW, I have an electric Dayton G30 heater. If left on high, it will roast you out of my 550 sq-ft insulated and drywalled garage. I usually put it on high for 15-20 minutes to warm the garage up, then back it off to low. I'm usually out there 2 nights per week plus one day on the weekend and it did not put a noticeable dent in the electricity bill. I'm sure if you were using it every day it would hurt, but for occassional usage I don't think the operating costs are enough to outweigh the low cost, easy installation, and lack of maintenance.


Ed


EDIT: I have a Dayton G73, NOT a G30.

 

[aleccolin]

A ground-source heat pump with a water/water heat exchanger and radiant floor or baseboard heat will yield the highest efficiency (BTU/kWH) of your readily available options. High initial cost, low cost of operation.

 

[Falcon67]

FWIW, I have an electric Dayton G30 heater. If left on high, it will roast you out of my 550 sq-ft insulated and drywalled garage. I usually put it on high for 15-20 minutes to warm the garage up, then back it off to low. I'm usually out there 2 nights per week plus one day on the weekend and it did not put a noticeable dent in the electricity bill. I'm sure if you were using it every day it would hurt, but for occassional usage I don't think the operating costs are enough to outweigh the low cost, easy installation, and lack of maintenance.


Ed

This similar Dayton unit gets rave reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TK2SWO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It would be easier to hook up than NG or Propane. One guy did say it added $100 to his bill but he also said it was on "24/7". I imagine it wouldn't be any worse for me than running the 12K A/C unit that I have.

[EDIT] We'll find out how it works I guess - liked the specs, bought it from Air&Water, free shipping. It'll only be 95 today, I'm catchin' a chill.

 

[Bull]

The electricians that I used before basically talked me out of electric heat because of the cost associated with heating a 24x32 garage. That Dayton unit is interesting, though. I like the fact that the installation is relatively simple, cost of the unit is low, and some of the reviews appear to suggest that it can heat more than a 500sf space, which is what it is listed for.

But, I am not sure if I have enough power out there to run it? I do have 220 out in the garage for my compressor...would I just tap into that circuit? If this thing alone draws 30 amps, and I only have 60 amps running to the barn, could I run this heater as long as I did not try to run a lot of other stuff at the same time i.e. all my lights and multiple power tools?

Here is a pic of my sub-panel that is out there right now. As you can see, I only have one slot left...not sure if I can fit the breaker for the Dayton in here. I'm basically an incompetent when it comes to understanding electricity and wiring, so I rely on the help of an electrician friend, and all of you good people.

 

[Fast Orange]

Bull-
With a bit of rearranging of your panel,you can hook uo the Dayton Heater.You'll have to get a twin circuit breaker and a 2 pole 30 amp breaker,then run a 10/3+ground circuit to the heater location.To meet code,you will have to provide a service disconnect ,which can be as simple as a nonfused 30 amp a/c pullout disconnect or a cord/plug setup.
With your compressor running,some lights on and the heater on,theres a very good chance that you'll trip the 60 amp breaker feeding your garage-and I'm asssuming it's in your house.If you don't mind resetting that a few times a day,you'll be OK.With a heater sized for 500 sq ft in a 768 sq ft garage,you can pretty much expect it to run constantly,and not be able to keep it warm enough to work on a very cold day.
The only way to adequately heat your garage is to install aproperly sized unit heater as I outlined above.

 

[Bull]

Fast Orange, would that rearranging of the panel mean, for example, using those little mini-breakers instead of the normal sized ones, so fewer slots are taken?

The main breaker for the garage sub-panel is in the house, yes.

As for the unit's heating ability, I see in the 14 reviews on Amazon that there are a few people who say it is heating a larger area. One or two people mention 700+ sf, and one guy says the following: "Great quiet heater. It's heating my 36x30 3 stall garage with 9ft ceilings. 32 degrees outside and the heater took it up to 60 in an hour."

36x30 is over 1k sq ft, so that got me thinking.

But, it is true that there is no door at the top of my barn stairs to separate the upstairs from the downstairs, so really the heat would be rising up there and would effectively make this heater work to heat the whole place, I guess.

So, perhaps a propane unit is what I should be looking at...maybe something I can mount in my stairwell so it can heat both the downstairs and the upstairs at the same time?

 

[walrus]

Fast Orange, would that rearranging of the panel mean, for example, using those little mini-breakers instead of the normal sized ones, so fewer slots are taken?
?

Any setup that trips the 60amp breaker in your house a few times a day is a bad setup and is asking for trouble. How do you heat your house? Use the same fuel you use for that in your shop.

 

[Bull]

I see the logic in what you are saying. Of course, the way around it would be to avoid running too much at once. In other words, make sure NOT to have all the high-juice equipment cranking at one time.

I'm going to investigate the wall or ceiling mounted Modine propane units this evening if I get a chance.

Any setup that trips the 60amp breaker in your house a few times a day is a bad setup and is asking for trouble. How do you heat your house? Use the same fuel you use for that in your shop.

 

[Falcon67]

I would take a look at what loads were on the 15A breakers. If it's lights and other small loads, you could replace the lower left 15A with a tandem 15A
like: - http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/30000/icn/20-740829/connecticut_electric/q1515.htm

Then the right two lower spaces woudl be free for a 240V breaker.

Note - my shop is a 20x24 with an 8' ceiling and very well insulated, including the door. The dual burner setup I have is rated at 24K BTU. It taks a while to heat things up from "cold" - about 30 min from 45F to 65F. I can then run on one burner and things will keep getting warmer. The 17K rating of the Dayton unit is close enough. If it throws air 18' as the specs indicate, it should work as well in my space. I'll keep the dual burner for backup. I like the idea of the electric heater because I can hang it in the middle of a long wall and point it where I need it, plus no carbon monoxide. When I add on the work room, I can move it in and out fo there as required. I'm willing to bet that on 95% of the days I'd need heat, the Dayton unit will do well enough without making the meter jump off the wall.

Running propane is a pain and even though we have NG on the property it'd be a big project to try and get it over to the garage.

 

[tcianci]

One of the best heaters for a garage is a NG or propane unit that has SEALED combustion. It is the safest as far as using it in an area that might have fuel or solvent/paint fumes. The combustion air is drawn in from outdoors and exhausted back outdoors. The air in your garage is drawn through the heat exchanger and never mixes with the combustion air.

 

[burger]

Bull:

My garage is 24 x 24, which is about 2/3 the size of yours. I also have a well insulated building, but I think I'm losing some heat around my doors, which I still haven't put weatherstripping around.

When I get out to the shop, I run the G73 on high for 15-20 minutes, then switch it to low for the remainder. I don't keep the shop that warm... maybe 50°? I keep it at the point where I'm comfortable working in a hoodie and my fingers aren't getting cold.

With your larger shop, I bet you'd have to run it on high for a half hour or more when you get into the shop and then toggle it to medium. More electricity.

How much time do you realistically plan to spend out there? If you're like me and you're only out there a little on the weekends and weeknights, you're not going to take a big hit on your electricity bill.

That being said, I ran the heater A LOT when I did my epoxy floor in DECEMBER. First I pressure washed the floor, then ran the heater and a dehumidifier for a week to dry the floor out. The next weekend I epoxied the floor and then let the heater and dehumidifier run for almost another week. I kept it pretty hot both weeks... I don't have a thermometer out there, but I'd guess 80° or so. Anyway, that put a dent in the bill. I don't remember how much, but I do remember my wife asking why the bill was so high.


Ed

 

[rieferman]

60 amps with lights and equipment (table saw, chop saw, shop vac even) is easy to trip.. that's the main reason I upgraded to 100 with my recent renovation. I would grey out the building all the time previously. I think you'll be unhappy with an electric solution, or will be rushing to upgrade electric to the barn. Just my 2 cents

 

[Bull]

What about a heat pump? Mitsubishi makes some called "Mr. Slim." Anyone know how much juice they draw or how well they might work? It would be good to avoid the hassle of propane deliveries.

BTW, I heat the house with oil because that is what was here when I moved in. Not sure I'd ever choose it on my own, though, so it isn't an option for the garage.

 

[walrus]

Not sure I'd ever choose it on my own, though, so it isn't an option for the garage.

Why not?

What about a pellet stove?

 

[rieferman]

boy, I'm mr. replies-alot in this thread, sorry

one note on pellet stoves... be wary of the pellet supply. We had a big shortage in my area for the last couple years, and lots of pellet stove owners had a lot of trouble (hard wood must be seasoned before burning, so it wasn't as easy as converting back to wood burning and buying a couple cords).

But if shortage isn't an issue, it's a clean burn and pellets are generally very cost effective. You'll have as much heat as you want basically

 

[Coach James]

Here's my heater - dual burner Mr. Heater on a 7 1/2 gallon propane tank with a $20 Walmart floor fan.

Works very well in my insulated building. I usually crack the window behind it for combustible air and don't have to run it a real long time.

My buddy uses a dual burner Mr. Heater in his barn and likes it a lot.

How old is that green B&D circular saw under the bench? I miss those old saws.

Coach

 

[Falcon67]

My buddy uses a dual burner Mr. Heater in his barn and likes it a lot.

How old is that green B&D circular saw under the bench? I miss those old saws.

Coach

It was about 30 when the bearing died in it.

 

[Falcon67]

Got the G73 yesterday. It works so good it got the shop to 95F in no time. Wait, it was 95F outside yesterday.

It's a nice compact little unit. Pretty hefty - shipping weight 30 lbs - and feels like decent steel. Nice big heating element that looks more like a ****** cooler. Nothing much to it, looks easy to service - you could have it completely in pieces in about 5 minutes. I'm going to hang it in a couple of spots to see where I like it, but just hanging it from the bracket on the bottom of a joist (8' to the joists) it clears my head by plenty and the t-stat knob is easy to reach. Put a washer on each side of a lag bolt run through the center of the bracket and it swivels easy. Louvers need stiffer springs as they like to hang at about 45 degrees down angle. A 30A twist lock socket and a plug set me back $40 at HD With that plus 25' of 10-2 w/g, a box, cover plate (the only plates they carry that fit the socket are polished stainless??), a bit of 10-3 cord (all they had) and a breaker I dropped nearly $80 for the hookup.

Northern carries a similar unit (looks identical) and it get rave reviews.

 

[bucs012]

Dang.......You guys with these G73's are making me think about heating my in sulated 20x15 shop with it. I mainly want to keep it 35-40 degrees in there all winter but then bump it up to 60-65 when I am a few times a week for 6-10 hours.

Is the electric g73 up to that kind of task or would it wear out within a year?

 

[Falcon67]

Reviews - looks like the same unit with a slightly different front. Same power/BTU specs, etc. The heating element looks pretty decent on mine, will get it fired up for a test in a few days. Some of the reviews I read were from up nawth and some noted leaving the heater on in some fashion.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_595_595

Some reviews at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AXEZV/?tag=atomicindus08-20

G73
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TK2SWO/?tag=atomicindus08-20