Trench is dug. Need help!

[naturalgas]

Trench is 24" deep 40' long 14" wide. I can't get any deeper. Too boney and BX25 just can't do it and no room for bigger tractor. I was told by electrician 24" deep and 6 " sand on bottom so conduit will be 18" deep per code. My question is I want to run everything else I will need like cable, Internet, phone can I run another conduit aside of the elec. power conduit? Also what will be best to put in? I know nothing about cat5 or other things needed. This is all going to my new detached garage. My cable service is about 150' from where it will enter new garage if distance matters. I will need this info explained like I'm from the last century. Thanks in advance. Jim


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[Marcm157]

I just finished a detached garage that was 125 feet behind my residence. I ran my electric in one conduit and I pulled (3) Cat 5 cables along with an RG-6 Coax and all my low voltage alarm wires in a second smaller conduit all in the same trench. I plan on installing a multi camera system which is why I ran 3 network cables.

 

[klassenl]

Throw what you need in the trench and the cover it before anyone sees it.

You should be just fine with putting a second conduit in the ground beside your power. Keep them separated as much as you can. Done

 

[dogdog]

why not just have another conduit... 1 1/2 " or 2" PVC laying next to the power one? easy to have... and easy to pull wires through it even after it's buried ?

I put 2 1.5" GRC next to each other one for power the other for misc things but mine is only 20' length and about 32" deep or so underground... with 3x 90 deg bend think those are 4 or 6" CLR ones.......

 

[Jazz1]

I ran power in one conduit and other lines in second conduit but CODE in my country may differ from yours.

 

[CNGsaves]

Put your electrical conduit on bottom of trench in sand. That will meet your code of 18" as you say most spots are 24" deep, then little more sand on top of electrical conduit.

Then backfill at least 6" and put in another 1" or 1 1/2" conduit for low voltage like CATV, internet, phone, security, etc.

 

[JJThrasher]

Throw what you need in the trench and the cover it before anyone sees it.

Probably not correct, but this usually ends up being my approach to these things.

 

[naturalgas]

Probably not correct, but this usually ends up being my approach to these things.

I would like to but I need an inspection. Can't fool around in my town or state for that matter. I have to pull a permit for heating system I'm installing. I can't jeopardize my license not doing so and I know the electric will be caught if no permit pulled, small town.


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[Chris705]

When I scoured the NEC I didn't see any separation requirements. I would be putting in the power to the full depth requirement. Little sand if needed, power conduit, more sand then about 12" backfill. Tamp well. 2" grey pvc conduit for low voltage stuff. 6" more backfill and tamp again. Tracer wire or metallic tape to locate in the future. Then the balance of spoils mounded up on top... Never can seem to get all the dirt back in the trench... Are you having electrical inspector come? If so consider getting his input.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Just put the 2nd pipe as far over in the trench as you can get it,youll be okay.
Its interferance in the low voltage from the line voltage you need to worry about,12" of seperation should be fine.

 

[ddawg16]

14" wide? No worries.

Power on one side, everything else on the other....and an empty conduit in the middle 'just in case'.

PVC conduit is cheap compared to the labor.

And, what ever size you picked? Up it 1/2". If spec says you need 1", go 1 1/2"

 

[matt_i]

I would put in

-Cat 5e, three of them, one for internet, one for land line phone if you still use that technology. One for "dry contacts" that could be alarm system feedback, or a spare. As I recall the Cat 5 is good for around 300' before it gets into trouble with resistance.

- RG 6U coax cable for CATV

- a 1/8" to 1/4" polypropylene rope for pulling future wires with a minimum amount of trouble. Always want a "string" inside the conduit for easy future pulls.

Your fish tape won't want to traverse more than 360 degrees of total bends without a huge amount of trouble. I would buy a bottle of wire pulling lube, and you will need a helper to pull the fish tape while someone straightens, organizes, and lubes the wire going into the conduit.

I would run 1" minimum, but probably 1-1/2" dia in case you wanted something exotic like an airline......

 

[csp]

I would like to but I need an inspection.

That's why you add the other cables to the trench after the inspection has passed. The inspector is going to be checking the open trench, not after it's buried.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Trench is 24" deep 40' long 14" wide. I can't get any deeper. Too boney and BX25 just can't do it and no room for bigger tractor. I was told by electrician 24" deep and 6 " sand on bottom so conduit will be 18" deep per code. My question is I want to run everything else I will need like cable, Internet, phone can I run another conduit aside of the elec. power conduit? Also what will be best to put in? I know nothing about cat5 or other things needed. This is all going to my new detached garage. My cable service is about 150' from where it will enter new garage if distance matters. I will need this info explained like I'm from the last century. Thanks in advance. Jim


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Do u need help sizing the electrical?

U will most likely need an amplifier for the CATV service...

 

[buckwheat_la]

I don't know about your area, but around here, they don't follow a inspection for things that are low voltage like CAT 5, Coax, or telephone lines. If I were you, I would put in the power and get it inspected, after that I would do the 6 inches and put in the rest. Keep in mind to, the worst case scenario is that you go to move, these things come up on a land title search as "not inspected" and you have to pull them out.

 

[naturalgas]

Do u need help sizing the electrical?

U will most likely need an amplifier for the CATV service...

Yes on the size wire. I have 200 amp in house will want to put 100 amp to sub panel in garage. Thanks for all the replies .


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[pattenp]

I'm trying to understand the point of the 6 inches of sand in the bottom of the trench if you're using conduit.

 

[sberry]

these things come up on a land title search as "not inspected" and you have to pull them out.

Ever seen this happen?

 

[MagKarl]

I bed water and gas lines in sand but don't usually bother for pvc conduit. I am careful about rocks though.

 

[simpler=better]

I don't know about your area, but around here, they don't follow a inspection for things that are low voltage like CAT 5, Coax, or telephone lines. If I were you, I would put in the power and get it inspected, after that I would do the 6 inches and put in the rest. Keep in mind to, the worst case scenario is that you go to move, these things come up on a land title search as "not inspected" and you have to pull them out.

Data lines are 'do whatever you want' from an inspection standpoint.

For clean data transmission, keep them away from power as best you can.

Throw two or three conduits in like others have said, and just label them-Power, Data, Spare (etc.). Explain to the inspector what they are, she should understand your reasoning for tossing them in while it's open.

 

[gungatim]

don't know your code, but around here, phone, satellite, cable, etc. is not put in a trench. it just goes under the sod...cable/satellite guys just use a spade shovel and make a slit. you could put the sand in to level the trench, lay your conduit/power, and get your inspection, then backfill and push whatever else just under the surface.

 

[Norcal]

don't know your code, but around here, phone, satellite, cable, etc. is not put in a trench. it just goes under the sod...cable/satellite guys just use a spade shovel and make a slit. you could put the sand in to level the trench, lay your conduit/power, and get your inspection, then backfill and push whatever else just under the surface.

Sounds hackish to me.

 

[bullnerd]

I'm just curious, I'm about to do this same thing.

What does it look like and what is the best way to bring the conduits into the home? In my case the basement block wall.

 

[naturalgas]

I am going through sill plate. No need to core through 10" foundation wall.


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[CNGsaves]

With such a wide trench, it won't take much backfill to get separation you want from electrical conduit and your low voltage. Put electrical on one side, then backfill some and put low voltage on the other side.

Like the idea of 3rd oversize conduit for "Future Use" . . . above post is spot on. Good luck.

 

[earlybirds]

I did the trench thing to my shop last summer. Trench was 36" deep between house and shop 250 ft. away. Electrical AC 2" conduit in bottom, 12" of backfill, then 2" conduit for low voltage stuff. I used the burial grade RG6 quad shield cable for shop TV. The buried conduit is considered a wet environment. I used the long sweep 90 degree pvc fittings. I have 3 90 degree turns. I had to use a full qt. of pulling lube to pull the 4 AC lines in. It was a job! Be sure to use 2" pvc for everything! You won't regret it!

 

[86turbodsl]

I guess it needs saying again. If you get lightning where you're at, consider HARD not using CAT5 in your trench. Multimode fiber with converters on each end can be had cheap and will protect your sensitive electronics from stray lightning impulse damage. It's possible to blow up your computers and cameras with a strike within 1/2 mile.

 

[gungatim]

Sounds hackish to me.

it may very well be...I know it ***** when your neighbor rototills up by the road to plant flowers and tears out the phone lines...happened twice to me (and he had the nerve to come over and yell at ME because the phoco ran temporary lines on top of his yard until they could fix it later).

when they did my satellite I made sure I took pictures in case I have to dig anything up in the area, watching the guy put it in only 2-3" below surface. I assume code allows it because it doesn't carry lethal power...anyone know for sure?

 

[buckwheat_la]

I'm trying to understand the point of the 6 inches of sand in the bottom of the trench if you're using conduit.

Way it was explained to me was if you know where tbe line is and you start digging down you know you are close when you hit the sand. Some codes require you to put a ribbon or a preasure treated 2x4 half way down so that you don't drill or dig through a line....

 

[CNGsaves]

Sand also makes it real easy to SMOOTH out the floor of the trench so your conduit lays nice and flat. Actually protects the conduit as it can move around in the sand, rather than getting bent or punctured by rocks once everything is packed down.

 

[naturalgas]

I guess it needs saying again. If you get lightning where you're at, consider HARD not using CAT5 in your trench. Multimode fiber with converters on each end can be had cheap and will protect your sensitive electronics from stray lightning impulse damage. It's possible to blow up your computers and cameras with a strike within 1/2 mile.

Now I'm really confused. I only stated cat5 cause that gets mentioned here all the time. As I stated in my first post I have zero clue what I am talking about. So I am just trying to get some knowledge before I go to radio shack to gather what I need or would want feeding into garage. We do get the occasional electrical storm here.


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[simpler=better]

Just put at least 2 big conduits in there, and put them as far apart as you can. Write 'POWER' on one and 'DATA' on the other.

We'll help you with the actual wiring part when you need it. Laying a conduit makes that part easy.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I put in my electric conduit, Power came out and signed off so I could bury, I put in my other conduit and a spare. Buried it all. It is all good now.

 

[Chadddada]

I would like to but I need an inspection. Can't fool around in my town or state for that matter. I have to pull a permit for heating system I'm installing. I can't jeopardize my license not doing so and I know the electric will be caught if no permit pulled, small town.


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When they do a trench inspection they probably just look to see how deep the trench is, correct? After that you can just put in whatever you want and cover it. I had to do a trench inspection (24") so they just verified that. I then put in the electrical, added some dirt back, put in my secondary conduit for cat 5, etc, and ran that up into the building as well. Finished filling in the ditch and poured the cement. No problems (MD).

 

[CNGsaves]

Now I'm really confused. I only stated Cat5 cause that gets mentioned here all the time. As I stated in my first post I have zero clue what I am talking about. So I am just trying to get some knowledge before I go to radio shack to gather what I need or would want feeding into garage. We do get the occasional electrical storm here.

You'll be fine with the 12" separation from electrical conduit and your low voltage conduit (thus, other side of trench and some backfill).

In "perfect world" yeah you'd put in fiber. But for short distance you have it's not necessary. Just put in Cat 5e that is underground rated ; same with the RG6 get underground rated. They will be in conduit so they'll live an easy life.

Lightning risk can be mitigated with surge protectors on each end, which you can get for Cat 5e along with your RG6 for CATV.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I'm just curious, I'm about to do this same thing.

What does it look like and what is the best way to bring the conduits into the home? In my case the basement block wall.

Bring it up above grade and install an expansion joint between the ground level and an LB going into the wall.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I am going through sill plate. No need to core through 10" foundation wall.


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Id take it above the sill plate through the rim joist.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

it may very well be...I know it ***** when your neighbor rototills up by the road to plant flowers and tears out the phone lines...happened twice to me (and he had the nerve to come over and yell at ME because the phoco ran temporary lines on top of his yard until they could fix it later).

when they did my satellite I made sure I took pictures in case I have to dig anything up in the area, watching the guy put it in only 2-3" below surface. I assume code allows it because it doesn't carry lethal power...anyone know for sure?

I wouldve sent him back home with a whole new outlook on life with his roto tiller up his *** if he came bitching to me.
Tell him to call diggers hotline next time.
Lots of places just "plow" in phone lines like that.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Sand also makes it real easy to SMOOTH out the floor of the trench so your conduit lays nice and flat. Actually protects the conduit as it can move around in the sand, rather than getting bent or punctured by rocks once everything is packed down.

Id take sand over rocks anytime.

 

[bullnerd]

Thanks, Zmax.