The VISES of Garage Journal

[joe.striper]

OK, I need a group think. Ran into this 7" Prentiss swivel jaw a few weeks ago. It is now available for sale to me. We are at $200 but based on condition I may just pass. I want your opinions on this one.

Issues: Broken foot, frozen spring loaded swivel lock, swivel pin, jaws are rough.

Good issues: Its HUGE, slide is excellent, jaws can be easily machined on their faces, opens and closes smoothly.

So do I pull the trigger? Do I offer $150? Is there any $$ left on the bone? I'm ambivalent about this vise. Anyone here interested in it?

 

[sz0k30]

Did you take off the spindle nut as well as the bottom screw? With the spindle nut off there has to be a hole into the static jaw cavity.

NO there doesn't. Mine didn't. I made a screw jack to push the pin out.

 

[meatsis]

NO there doesn't. Mine didn't. I made a screw jack to push the pin out.

That makes no sense. If there was no hole there, what were you pushing on with the screw jack you made?

Ive disassembled close to 30 different swivel jaw vises and every single one of them had a hole underneath. Usually they are just caked with years of crud in there to the point where you don't even see it.

 

[drivesitfar]

Joe: the broken foot would kill it for me, but there are some very handy members including you so just an FYI the parts are VALUABLE. your call on it's worth since you live in VISE HEAVEN, but i'm guessing you already received a PM or two. if it was local and shipping wasn't a cost involved i'd probably try for $150 mentioning the issues which he already knows, but might end up paying $175-200 just for the parts.

 

[Hemi49]

That makes no sense. If there was no hole there, what were you pushing on with the screw jack you made?

Ive disassembled close to 30 different swivel jaw vises and every single one of them had a hole underneath. Usually they are just caked with years of crud in there to the point where you don't even see it.

He means there is no hole in the dovetail after he knocked the spindle nut out....My advice is to drill a hole into the dovetail so you can can go up through with a punch and knock the tapered pin out.....
Hemi

 

[Shiftless]

on Hemi's excellent advise!

 

[bluebolt]

Does anyone recognize this thread? This is a close-up of the thread on the spindle of the Walworth vise I bought a couple of days ago. I haven't given much thought to screw threads but this one looked different to me. What appears to be a slight radius at the bottom of the thread is probably caked on grease. In case you didn't see my original post, this vise was probably made in the 1870's so the thread could be just about anything.

That looks like square thread.

 

[macgee]

OK, I need a group think. Ran into this 7" Prentiss swivel jaw a few weeks ago. It is now available for sale to me. We are at $200 but based on condition I may just pass. I want your opinions on this one.

Issues: Broken foot, frozen spring loaded swivel lock, swivel pin, jaws are rough.

Good issues: Its HUGE, slide is excellent, jaws can be easily machined on their faces, opens and closes smoothly.

So do I pull the trigger? Do I offer $150? Is there any $$ left on the bone? I'm ambivalent about this vise. Anyone here interested in it?

That's a tough call to make for someone else but the question is coming from someone who has already done many restores makes me say probably not. Go with your gut.

Restoring a vise takes a lot of energy and when done you want it to perform as it was originally suppose to.
The issues mentioned with this vise will require a lot of your time (above normal) to get it back to fully functioning. My biggest gripe with this vise is the missing foot. You will need to fabricate a new base or braze a new foot and as we know how hard it is to get the brazing right with cast iron. Then add the time needed to get the swivel jaw lose and working again, this can also be very time consuming. I think the stuck swivel base pin shouldn't be too hard to get functioning again but if it's broken then good luck finding a replacement, you'll have to make one. It would make sense to get this vise if you have an organ donor vise to get the base from and other parts. The bad jaws is another issue but like you said they can be milled but that would be mean the jaws will be soft, not hardened which is not ideal. I'm not a fan of spring pins on big vises, they can have play/wear in them.

Then add the $200 price on top on labor needed mentioned above says to pass on this vise. If your unable to add the foot or get the swivel jaw functioning again then the vise will not be performing as it should but you wont't know that till you spend $200-$150 and a lot of time.

There will be other vise's in your future that will be better to restore.

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by Hemi49.

He means there is no hole in the dovetail after he knocked the spindle nut out....My advice is to drill a hole into the dovetail so you can go up through with a punch and knock the tapered pin out.....
Hemi
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I have never encountered a swivel jaw with no hole up through the dovetail, but that's not to say that everyone of them has one.---I have found also that that hole to has been full of grease to the point it was total camouflaged.

I would be touch and go with a screw jack mechanism, cause if the pin is super froze, you might crack the bottom of the housing from the back pressure.

But the screw jack is safe if done right.---Penetrating oil, a little pressure, very light tapping with a baby ball peen, a little more pressure, a little more tapping, and repeat.

 

[sz0k30]

He means there is no hole in the dovetail after he knocked the spindle nut out....My advice is to drill a hole into the dovetail so you can can go up through with a punch and knock the tapered pin out.....
Hemi

YES! That is what I meant. Thanks for the clarification.

I have never encountered a swivel jaw with no hole up through the dovetail, but that's not to say that everyone of them has one.---I have found also that that hole to has been full of grease to the point it was total camouflaged.

Well, sun of a gun! I just took mine apart & checked & VA, you are correct. When I originally took the vise apart & cleaned it, the hole was packed full of dirt. Now I just punched thru it & waalla there is a thru hole. Thanks.

 

[CRSINMICH]

That looks like square thread.

Thanks BB: I thought it might be square thread but I've never knowingly seen actual square thread so it was just a guess. I'll have to pick up a copy of Machinery's Handbook just to help answer those nagging questions.

 

[drivesitfar]

CRS: KM made a great post about threads maybe close to 2 years ago now so between you and maybe VA if he has time you can find that post. sorry I don't have the pictures transferred over yet from my old laptop, but a lot of those old vises had square threads. I know the post is there, but i'm terrible at searching for things on this thread.

McGee: great post. as many vises as Joe and his Minions find I bet he'll find a big Prentiss with a cracked dynamic later. he can either buy it now for the parts or let it lie and see if the part vise is available for maybe less when he finds the need. since Joe finds working 200 pound vises for that price i'd probably have to agree with you as opposed to buying a parts vise unless another GJ member has already asked him to pick it up for them.

 

[va.grouseman]

Originally posted by Autopts.

Here's one from a collector out West. Its a 208 Reed on his hand made stand. I've sold him 2, 8" ers so I really don't know what he has but I know its a bunch. Sorry for the resolution It basically one for GJ
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Autopts, is that 208 one of the two 8"ers you sold to the collector, and did you do the restoration or him/her?---A really nice job whomever.---And an awesome stand.

Here's the #208 compared with a #108

The #208.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=536423&d=1458014257.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=536422&d=1458014257

Now the #108.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=281581&d=1379180956

The 108 was posted by B100 on page 520.

 

[joe.striper]

That's a tough call to make for someone else but the question is coming from someone who has already done many restores makes me say probably not. Go with your gut.

Restoring a vise takes a lot of energy and when done you want it to perform as it was originally suppose to.
The issues mentioned with this vise will require a lot of your time (above normal) to get it back to fully functioning. My biggest gripe with this vise is the missing foot. You will need to fabricate a new base or braze a new foot and as we know how hard it is to get the brazing right with cast iron. Then add the time needed to get the swivel jaw lose and working again, this can also be very time consuming. I think the stuck swivel base pin shouldn't be too hard to get functioning again but if it's broken then good luck finding a replacement, you'll have to make one. It would make sense to get this vise if you have an organ donor vise to get the base from and other parts. The bad jaws is another issue but like you said they can be milled but that would be mean the jaws will be soft, not hardened which is not ideal. I'm not a fan of spring pins on big vises, they can have play/wear in them.

Then add the $200 price on top on labor needed mentioned above says to pass on this vise. If your unable to add the foot or get the swivel jaw functioning again then the vise will not be performing as it should but you won't know that till you spend $200-$150 and a lot of time.

There will be other vise's in your future that will be better to restore.

McGee, thanks for the insight on this vise. I agree with you if I had a clear mind...problem is the vise-monkeys start jumping around in my head ...will I ever see another one...but it's 7" freaking inches....maybe its not that bad....i should learn to weld...hey even with the broken foot I can sell it......

I think what I will do is to see if if I can get it for $150 or less. I'll mount it on my outside workbench and cover it when I don't use it. Sometime this summer I'll restore it. I can't lose $$ at $150 right?? Did I also tell you the guy has a HUGE Hollingsworth (If my memory is correct) lathe as well as what looks like a very nice clean 10" Atlas lathe he wants to sell? Oh he also has an anvil. So maybe good will can help me acquire those as well. If I pick it up I'll post pics.

 

[joe.striper]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-Pound-P...071699?hash=item3d13e973d3:g:tecAAOSwZQxW3xYy

how can this thing have no bids on it????

 

[honza.vosalik]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-Pound-P...071699?hash=item3d13e973d3:g:tecAAOSwZQxW3xYy

how can this thing have no bids on it????

Because he won't ship.

 

[RHJO51]

Yep Joe, you are right, I forgot to mention to RHJ that you have to take out the screw/threaded auger nut in order to be able to see through the bottom up to the swivel pin hole.---And sometimes the swivel pin hole is filled with grease and you can't see them, but a little proging with a long sharp tool will find it.

Well I'm feeling stupid, the darn hole was there, but caked with hard grease. I had no idea.. I can now get through the hole to tap the pin. A few good strokes didn't do it, going to try dome more soaking first. Thanks Guys!

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Because he won't ship.

Amusing for a vise that won't ship to be photographed on what looks like a pallet

 

[Mark in Indiana]

OK, I need a group think. Ran into this 7" Prentiss swivel jaw a few weeks ago. It is now available for sale to me. We are at $200 but based on condition I may just pass. I want your opinions on this one.

Issues: Broken foot, frozen spring loaded swivel lock, swivel pin, jaws are rough.

Good issues: Its HUGE, slide is excellent, jaws can be easily machined on their faces, opens and closes smoothly.

So do I pull the trigger? Do I offer $150? Is there any $$ left on the bone? I'm ambivalent about this vise. Anyone here interested in it?

Joe,
I'll toss in my opinion.

I can only say " if it was me", but I'd offer $100 for it. The pluses for me are what you mentioned above. The challenges attract me because I'm at a point where I want to achieve more than to clean, paint & polish.

None of the issues are a deal breaker for around $100 ($200, id pass). Frozen components- no problem. Machining the jaw faces- done 5 aready. Concerning the broken foot, I have a vise that I'm building a prosthetic for (I'll post about it on Vise repair 101).

Again, I'm saying what I would do. But with your experience, you should go for it, for less of a buy price than the seller's price.

If you get it, please post about the restoration.

 

[macgee]

McGee, thanks for the insight on this vise. I agree with you if I had a clear mind...problem is the vise-monkeys start jumping around in my head ...will I ever see another one...but it's 7" freaking inches....maybe its not that bad....i should learn to weld...hey even with the broken foot I can sell it......

I think what I will do is to see if if I can get it for $150 or less. I'll mount it on my outside workbench and cover it when I don't use it. Sometime this summer I'll restore it. I can't lose $$ at $150 right?? Did I also tell you the guy has a HUGE Hollingsworth (If my memory is correct) lathe as well as what looks like a very nice clean 10" Atlas lathe he wants to sell? Oh he also has an anvil. So maybe good will can help me acquire those as well. If I pick it up I'll post pics.

I think the vise monkeys have a firm grip on you.

Now my comments change dramatically if you wanna take on a project and learn some new things like welding/brazing cast iron, making a new foot and milling the jaws. Just thought that since you already have done so many restores that you were picky to choose your projects. It would make a good project but I'm not sure that you would get your monies worth back from it if you decided to sell it after a full restore and paint job, especially your man hours invested in it unless you enjoy making way below minimum wage. I agree on buying at $100 or below especially if the eBay one doesn't sell.

Maybe wait and see how much the 7" on eBay sells for to give you an idea for demand. I don't blame the guy for not wanting to ship it, these things weigh a couple of hundred of pounds. Freight will probably be more than the price of the vise. You may also want to keep the weight in mind, it's not a 3" vise that you can easily flip & move around to work on.

 

[Outlawmws]

Thanks BB: I thought it might be square thread but I've never knowingly seen actual square thread so it was just a guess. I'll have to pick up a copy of Machinery's Handbook just to help answer those nagging questions.

Check some used book stores or even CL for the MHB. Sometimes you get lucky...

 

[Outlawmws]

Because he won't ship.

I'd be happy to ship it, but I'm not sure I can get it out of the basement by myself. That said, it's local pickup only.

So it sounds like he might be negotiable on shipping. That said, shipping would probably cost more than the vise...

 

[macgee]

Thanks BB: I thought it might be square thread but I've never knowingly seen actual square thread so it was just a guess. I'll have to pick up a copy of Machinery's Handbook just to help answer those nagging questions.

Here's some good info for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_thread_form

 

[va.grouseman]

Dayids list has the Prentiss #23 listed as 270 lbs., but I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be 207 lbs..---The model #22 is 165 lbs. so it's hard for me to believe that with the increase of 1 inch in jaw width, it jumpes 105 lbs.---Somebody prove me wrong for posterity's sake.


Good catch on the pallet Cwazy.---That pallet is just for local loading.---It's hard to get someone to ship something big anymore.---And I know why.---It's a big job within itself to just get it ready to ship.---I have to be honest, if I can avoid it, I will to.---I've been real lucky, in that I have found several fine fellows that were willing to work with me in this arena.

Drive for one, shipped me a whopper of a Wilton clear across the continent.---Another gentleman shipped me a Reed 208R from Colorado.---You don't forget gestures like that.

So there's two obstacles your up against in shipping, (1) can you stand the jar when they hit you with the quote, and (2) talking the seller into shipping.

 

[slotard]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/5492875659.html

Of course after I buy 280+lb of vises in a couple weeks I come across something else cool... don't see many English vises around here. Might buy even though I don't really have anywhere to put it.

 

[CRSINMICH]

Outlaw: Thanks for the suggestion. In fact, I have been looking. I went to the local library used books sale but there was nothing on machinery or vises. Last summer I got a 7 drawer Kennedy box that had a fair amount of tools in it along with a copy of the 1914 second edition of American Machinists' Handbook (with gilt edges). That's where I got the idea that the Walworth might have square threads.

Macgee: Thank you. From the illustrations that you posted it seems certain that it is, in fact, square thread. I have used wiki fairly often but for some reason I didn't think about it for this. Thanks again!

 

[exmaxima1]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-Pound-P...071699?hash=item3d13e973d3:g:tecAAOSwZQxW3xYy

how can this thing have no bids on it????

The jaws look worthless, and Prentiss does not command the prices of better known vises such as Reed, Parker, and of course Wilton.

 

[va.grouseman]

RHJ, hope you can work that pin out, but once you do, the swivel jaw itself can be stubborn seized up to.---You want to be pretty ginger with that thing to.---I think that's how a lot of them got damaged over the years.---People beating and wrenching on them to loosen them up.---The swivel mechanism is thin cast and won't stand a lot of abuse.

 

[autopts]

OK, I need a group think. Ran into this 7" Prentiss swivel jaw a few weeks ago. So do I pull the trigger? Do I offer $150? Is there any $$ left on the bone? I'm ambivalent about this vise. Anyone here interested in it?

Joe those jaws are early forged jaws and not replicable and look shot. I'd pass on it.

 

[demoman]

A friend picked this vise up today. Brown footlock vise. This thing is big and heavy. He wants more information but I came up empty handed. Anyone ever seen one??

 

[Outlawmws]

I don't know, but I want one...

 

[CrotalusAtrox]

Found a Chief another not so desirable VISE but it was in ok shape for 12 bucks. Striped it painted it with that Oregano Satin finish. Looks ok nothing like what Kevin produces but it is tough with a hand file, I think I need a MILL just have to let the kids know that college is overrated. I will build some decent jaws for it and give it to a friend.

 

[Outlawmws]

Joe those jaws are early forged jaws and not replicable and look shot. I'd pass on it.

If the price can be kept reasonable, grind them smooth? (lots of applications for a smooth jaw vise...)

 

[bubinga]

Looks good!

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[jr3ruffneck]

A little Columbian I found and decided to overhaul-

 

[Jcrapola]

Here is my 5" craftsman that I just finished. 5" jaw. I have now had at least 3 different sizes pass thru my possession. 3", a couple 4", and this 5". I would swear I saw a 3.5" once upon a time also (maybe my mind is playing tricks on me). Anyone know if there were other sizes?

 

[CRSINMICH]

Jcrapola: I don't know why you had reservations about this vise. It looks great! I like that understated elegance look. Don't you ever sleep?

 

[Mohawk Dave]

A friend picked this vise up today. Brown footlock vise. This thing is big and heavy. He wants more information but I came up empty handed. Anyone ever seen one??

That thing is badass. I'd buy it!

 

[Hemi49]

Here is my 5" craftsman that I just finished. 5" jaw. I have now had at least 3 different sizes pass thru my possession. 3", a couple 4", and this 5". I would swear I saw a 3.5" once upon a time also (maybe my mind is playing tricks on me). Anyone know if there were other

JC
What is the CNC machine I see in your photos?.....Nice looking vise
Hemi

 

[RHJO51]

RHJ, hope you can work that pin out, but once you do, the swivel jaw itself can be stubborn seized up to.---You want to be pretty ginger with that thing to.---I think that's how a lot of them got damaged over the years.---People beating and wrenching on them to loosen them up.---The swivel mechanism is thin cast and won't stand a lot of abuse.

Good advise, I'll try to take it slow and easy. Already have one broken swivel jaw vise, don't need another one! Thank you. - Jim