Outdoor sump pump/drain and drain tile installation

[iibgdi]

Outdoor sump pump/drain and drain tile installation and mud jacking concrete patios

We live in the upper midwest so winters are an issue when it comes to dealing with the pump etc.

Here is the deal: I have a walk out basement that had some water issues the last year or so. We believe it is due to ground water build up that came through the walkout and maybe even the base of the wall/floor along the side of the house. We ended up with about 1/8 to 1/4 an inch of water throughout our entire basement. Not enough to ruin anything other than the carpet and cause me huge headaches.

We think it is due to several factors.

1. Outside our walk out basement is a very large amount of concrete. There is a patio and a pool area. See pic. The house is 12 years old and the concrete has settled/heaved a bit and some of it slopes slightly back toward the house now.

The level of the concrete is actually a bit above the level of the inside basement floor so the double door sill sits almost on the concrete. (So mud jacking appears to be out of the question.)

2. The retaining wall on the right side (see second pic) has concrete that has settled at least 2 inches and slopes to the house.

3. The patio on the far right in the 2nd pic has also settled (1/2" on the left side and 3 1/2 inches on the right end) and slopes back to the house.

Combine those three items and it seems the water Gods have caught up with us.
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[iibgdi]

This next post I will tell you what my plans are so far and any device you can give would be helpful. BRB

 

[iibgdi]

My first remedy is to have both of the patio areas in the 2nd pic (ABOVE) mud jacked to get the slope away from the house once again. I have a couple quotes already and hope to have this done in the next 30 days

My 2nd remedy is to cut out approximately 12 inches of concrete next to the house all along the walk out basement. In the pic I crudely drew where it would be.

My plan is to dig it down low enough to put pea gravel and then corrugated drain tile in and then more pea gravel.

I would then put in 4 or 5 trench drain sections with their own solid drain tile leading toward the left hand side of the walk out.

It should all slope slightly toward the left hand side.

Lastly, I intend to put a sump pump in.

this would go right where the square white flower pot is in the 2nd picture. There is an electrical box close by as you can see so that should help keep the cost down somewhat.

I feel fairly comfortable with the concrete/tile and drain work but the sump and where to tie things into I am a bit unsure on. More on that in the next post

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[iibgdi]

One of the regrets with the original build was probably tying these 2 downspouts and 3 trench drains into one drain tile line.

You can see the route of the drain tile in this pic and the next. there is actually a trench drain about where I am standing while taking this pic. there are 3 total trench drains.
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Here you can see the down spout drain and the 2 trench drains and their route.

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[iibgdi]

One of my buddies thinks I need to tie the new tile and drains into the existing tiling out to daylight.

I am a bit concerned about that as the drain tile can have a bit of trouble in extreme rains with keeping up.

He thinks we should use the sump as over flow. I am not sure how everything will connect together and/or get to the actual sump pit.

I was planning to run the discharge line through the retaining wall and under the surface of the rock and out to day light

Any ideas? thoughts?

 

[iibgdi]

Bump

 

[matt_i]

I can't see the pictures. For whatever reason the links don't work. Is the album "private"?

 

[iibgdi]

I can see them. I checked my settings and that album appears to be set to public.

Anyone else have problems?

 

[koditten]

No pics for me.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... There were pictures in yer 1st post yesterday,....

Nothin' but a picture of a cat now,....

 

[kgordon]

no pics visible

 

[theoldwizard1]

Water on concrete is going to head down hill. End of discussion.

Mike Holmes did a show on a similar problem. The basement door lead to a below grade landing. There was a drain there, but it was not working. They found out that is did not connect to anything.

The solution was to remove the concrete landing area just outside the door. Dig down below the frost line and run a new drain line inside to a newly dug sump pit. Pumped it out from there.

Lots of work. Lots of concrete busted out and replaced. Every thing was back filled with gravel, including hauling buckets of it inside for the pit.

 

[joes169]

The level of the concrete is actually a bit above the level of the inside basement floor so the double door sill sits almost on the concrete. (So mud jacking appears to be out of the question.)

If I'm reading this correctly, your always going to be struggling with water issues. I fight this fight on a regular basis with HO's and builders, but I will not pour a patio flush, or even close to flush, with a basement floor on a walkout, much less ABOVE the basement floor. It's just inviting problems, as you're experiencing.........

 

[iibgdi]

Ok, I think I discovered the issue with the pics. I had moved them to a different folder, thus screwing up their link. Should be fixed.

 

[iibgdi]

Today I was advised that simply raising the concrete on the 2 patio areas would likely eliminate the water issues.

I'm not 100% sure if I agree or not. There are a couple low spots down by the walk out that I could definitely mud jack and help a bit with slope but I don't think that is causing the water. I think the issue is up above.

I wonder if I am better off tearing out all of the concrete up above on the 2 patios and pouring new.

 

[iibgdi]

Here is a older pic from a different angle

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[iibgdi]

I have had 2 contractors come out the past 24 hours. Both of them believe all of the water issues are being caused by the slabs up above.

I give them credit, they could have easily taken my money and jacked up the concrete and moved on but they felt it wasn't going to take care of it.

So, instead of putting in the trench drains and tile and sump down below and leveling and sloping the concrete away from the house on the 2 slabs above, we are only going to tear out both pads and put in drains and tiling in both spots, back fill and compact. they felt that would solve our problem as the water has been accumulating behind that retaining wall and along the foundation walls and getting into the house right by the window and corner of the house by the retaining wall.

So...the big pad on the right will be redone in concrete. The smaller pad will be some type of rock chips that compact nicely.

I have to figure out how to get rid of the water from the drains I install up above.

I think the only realistic option for moving the water from this area

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Is to move it down to this area.

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We have some pretty bad concrete cracks down below and around these trench drains, particularly the one to the north (closer to the house). So, I think I will tear out the concrete in this area (including tearing out that trench drain)

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This is obviously just a rough sketch but this gives kind of an idea of what I was thinking. I probably wouldn't go all the way back to the retaining wall. So I would need to cut a trench in the concrete until I get to where I've torn out concrete alreaady

I would then put in drain tile.

I just have to figure out the cleanest way to connect tiling from up above to down below. Not sure how to get it through the retaining wall and into the concrete.

thoughts or ideas?

 

[iibgdi]

The pad on the right would be torn out, back filled and compacted. I think I might consider a drain and tiling here as well. Just not sure if i want to somehow run it down to the smaller pad and connect to the tiling there or just run it out to the south and into the grass somehow.


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[theoldwizard1]

The pad on the right would be torn out, back filled and compacted. I think I might consider a drain and tiling here as well. Just not sure if i want to somehow run it down to the smaller pad and connect to the tiling there or just run it out to the south and into the grass somehow.

When you say "tiling" I assume you mean drain tile, correct ? Where is the water going to go ?

I agree with your contractor recommendations. Start at the top.

If it was my house, I would seriously consider digging down all the way to below the basement floor and apply new water proofing and drain board to the outside of the basement walls.

Does your house have a sump pump ? If yes, see if you can have some one run a camera up the weeping/drain tile system. If not you need one. It is the only sure fire cure.

While the ditch is open for the new water proofing, dig down to below the basement floor level. Add 4-6" of gravel (for leveling). Install drain pipe and run it into the basement and a new sump pit. Back fill with gravel or clean crushed concrete to within about 3' of grade. Spread a heavy grade of commercial landscape cloth before filling with soil/sand to the finish grade.

Now here is where you and I differ. I would do brick pavers up top for a couple of reasons.

• Water will go down the cracks spreading it over a much wider area.
• If there is any sinking in the future, the cost to pull up the pavers and redo the pitch is minimal.
• Make sure your pavers are sitting on 4-6" of gravel and 4-6" of "stone dust" (finely crushed stone")
• Pavers look much better than all of the concrete !

I have an area just outside my back door that alawy was muddy and could not be re-graded to keep water away, plus it got run off from the driveway. I dug it down 12", put in crushed concrete, gravel, stone dust and pavers. It might puddle after a heavy rain, but the puddle is gone in a few hours. It does not ice up in winter.