Framing Nailer

[Mr. Roboto]

My experience with pneumatic nailers is pretty limited. Currently, I only own a Hitachi 16 gauge finish nailer that I've used many times for interior trim work.

Pretty soon, I will be building a new rear deck, new front entry way, and eventually, framing and finishing my basement off. These projects will justify the purchase of a framing nailer. I'd like to be able to shoot nails into metal joist hangers, which as I understand it, some guns have the ability to do.

I am looking at this Bostitch gun. It has a "positive placement tip" which I believe will enable me to shoot into a joist hanger.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A79HWA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I am rather confused over what "degree" nailer I should buy, 21 degree? 30? 34? 28? I'm not sure I fully understand the difference to pick one that will best suit my needs. Any help or advice would be much appreciated. I'd like to keep the purchase around the 200 dollar mark if possible.

 

[buckwheat_la]

Bostitch, paselode, hitachi, all good brands. No real difference in degree of nails other than once you make that choice you are stuck with it. I would suggest you source the nails you want to use first (cost, availability,etc) then find the guns that work with them..

 

[Casey69]

i've used both the bostitch & hitachi guns (actually bought the hitachi). both worked great for me. the bostitch uses wire-welded nails & the hitachi uses paper-collated nails.

can't go wrong with either. the wire-welded nails would probably be better if you're doing a lot of outdoor work in inclement weather, as the paper-collated ones can fail when they get wet.

 

[ryan20021982]

I have the Bostitch 28 Degree stick framer, its a great gun and the nails are easy to find cheap. Menards cheap brand, forgot what they are called but the shoot great out of these guns. Only thing I did was change the trigger over to a bump trigger which lets you hold the trigger down and bump the tip to shoot, great for shooting plywood down for floor or roof but you don't need it, it's just faster but also more dangerous lol.

The one you linked to is plastic collated and is 21-23 degree, not sure if these are as easy to find as the wire collated 28 degree. You might want to look into that first. If you are forced to buy Bostitch nails they will be more expensive.

And for joist hangers here the code is to use specific joist hanger nails like these
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-...-Shank-Connector-Nail-1-lb-N8DHDG-R/206101778

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'd like to be able to shoot nails into metal joist hangers, which as I understand it, some guns have the ability to do.

Not necessarily the best thing to do, especially if you have a picky inspector !

Simpson StrongTie hangers specifically say NOT to use "standard" nail/screws. The nails/screws that they sell (or the company's "structural" nails and screws) are made different and may actually use different steel.

I am not sure how many hangers you have to install, but I have found the Simpson screws work great (don't use the "free" driver they give you, it *****) when you have an impact driver !

 

[buckwheat_la]

Not necessarily the best thing to do, especially if you have a picky inspector !

Simpson StrongTie hangers specifically say NOT to use "standard" nail/screws. The nails/screws that they sell (or the company's "structural" nails and screws) are made different and may actually use different steel.

I am not sure how many hangers you have to install, but I have found the Simpson screws work great (don't use the "free" driver they give you, it *****) when you have an impact driver !

Agreed. There are proper structural nails that are supposed to be used. We buy them loose and use a palm nailer to install....

 

[Casey69]

agreed on the plastic collated being hard to find. for me, it was either wire-collated or paper collated. from what i researched, the plastic collated were the least popular & they discharged plastic bits that i didn't want to deal with & clean up.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Now is a hell of a time to get s Paslode Cordless Nailer!someone here or CL /eBay will have new ones for much less that retail. That said- the nails and gas are a little pricey. For me - the convenience out weighs the price b/c I only paid 100 bucks for the nailer. I paid 300 for my trim nailer and use it around the house remodeling. I love them both. I framed a basement wall with the Paslode and it was super handy not to have to mess with compressor.

If you are looking at strictly pneumatic- I had a Hitachi framer for a while and it was a good gun. I framed my whole basement in the last house with Senco made in USA nailer. A total beast that shot 3.5" nails! I don't worry about paper or the degree. Maybe skip clipped head. Just find one that suits your need and go with it. Take a look at HF too. I had good luck with roofer and 18 ga Brad nailer

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Sounds crazy... but I've had VERY good luck with HF 3-1 framing nailer and hardwood floor nailer. I've gutted/remodeled by entire house and both a still working great.

I've used Bostitch nailers (roofing, framing, flooring) and indeed they are great (borrowed contractor friends). I like the coil nails better on the Bostitch and I get them fairly cheap ($40 box of 3k). Whereas the HF takes sticks, which need to be reloaded more often and sometimes jam between clips due to the plastic holding them together.

However other than the occasionally jam and I've shot thousands of nails (3-3.25") thru it, its work very well and I think I paid $100 for it. As for stick angle or coil... you can get many nails in all varieties (21*, 30*, coil, etc..).

With steel-ties... you should be using the appropriate dipped nails (they are heavy gauge, like 8D). I don't know if they come in coils or stick for guns, I doubt it... unless its a specialty gun.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

agreed on the plastic collated being hard to find. for me, it was either wire-collated or paper collated. from what i researched, the plastic collated were the least popular & they discharged plastic bits that i didn't want to deal with & clean up.

Most of the sticks sold at HD are plastic collated... not hard to find. The only issues I've had with them [plastic collated] are:

• plastic nubs between sticks sometimes cause a mis-fire
• usually you can't fire all nails till empty (need to reload "early")
• bits of plastic trapped between nail head surface you're nailing

 

[Casey69]

i actually tried the HF nailer before buying my hitachi. the HF used full-head nails, had good reviews, & got it for ~$70, but i couldn't get it to work consistently using the proper-spec'd hitachi full-head nails & took it back. it would "fire", but the nail would fall out the side of the gun & 30% of the time. had good air pressure too. maybe the HF nails would have worked better?

Edit: this is the one i tried:
http://www.harborfreight.com/21-Angle-Full-Head-Framing-Air-Nailer-69927.html

this is the one i have that's been flawless so far:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_19946-67702-NR90ADPR___?productId=50437972&pl=1&Ntt=hitachi+nailers

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

This one, I believe: http://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...10-gauge-3-in-1-air-framing-nailer-98751.html

I've shot both clipped and full-head... just the occasional miss-fire out of thousands of nails.

 

[CNGsaves]

Top brands are: Hitachi, Senco and Paslode. After that very good brands are Bostitch, Porter Cable, Ridgid, and even some Craftsman that I believe were made by Senco as they look exactly same.

I'd recommend Hitachi as you already know their quality which is excellent.

Do NOT get any Harbor Freight as it might fail right in middle of project. That's what happened to me with fawkin' HF nailer.

The Hitachi framing nailer I found on CL for $100 is night & day better than POS Harbor Freight nailer. Hitachi was very lightweight aluminum and easily shot 3 1/4" nails through roof sheeting or 2x4 and 2x6 sister studs I put in. Mine is paper-tape clipped head 30 degree. It's older model Hitachi but nails can still be found.

 

[ez-duzit]

Check local building codes to make sure what you buy will meet code. Some areas disallow clipped-head nails.

 

[Milzo]

Agreed. There are proper structural nails that are supposed to be used. We buy them loose and use a palm nailer to install....

Hitachi makes a nail gun that will shoot Teco nails made for hangers. The tip of the nail sticks out a bit so you can get it lined up with the hole then shoot it in. I used one for the first time in the last couple of weeks and it works great. We hand nailed the 16d angle nails that catch the rim though.

 

[southalabama]

We've had good luck with pasloade framing nailers. We have senco brad nailers long with porter cable.

 

[jt777]

28 degree bostitch is my choice. Usually Cheapest and easiest nails to find around here and 7 year warranty on the gun itself i believe.

 

[buckwheat_la]

Hitachi makes a nail gun that will shoot Teco nails made for hangers. The tip of the nail sticks out a bit so you can get it lined up with the hole then shoot it in. I used one for the first time in the last couple of weeks and it works great. We hand nailed the 16d angle nails that catch the rim though.

Yeah I borrowed a friends and used it quite a few years ago, was cool however at some point it is just lazy. That is what i lke with palm nailers because they are great for tight areas that need nails.

 

[derosa]

I picked up 18 boxes of clipped head framing nails for 5.00 a piece, grabbed the Hitachi nailer that matched and have now run 5 boxes through it as a home owner with no issues. Easily did the 2 3/8 ring shank for sheathing and has no trouble with the 3 1/2" I've used for posts. Mostly shoot 3 or 3 1/4 but it has no trouble with anything.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Thank you for all the great info everyone. I never realized that you had to use a specific nail in a hanger. I called my building inspector, and he confirmed. I only have about 20 hangars to install for the deck, so if I have to do them by hand, or use a palm Nailer as someone suggested, then it's really not a big deal. Also, a few suggested selecting the nail first, and then selecting a gun based on that. I never realized how specific some nails were to the gun, I assumed that like my trim nailer, as long as they were the right size dimensionally, they would work. Need to do a little more homework, and will finalize my choice.

Thanks again!

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

As long as their the right angle, length and clipped or full head to fit the gun they'll work, regardless of you makes them. However certain types have a greater selection than others. That said, since you're not doing it for a living... you won't run THAT many nails. Just pick what's convenient to buy. In the end the small price difference in nails, is lost in cost of other things when doing reno/construction.

I don't see much need for a nailer in doing a deck (hangers, structural nails and deck screws)... but its nice to have when it comes time for framing. I'd make sure you have a nice drill or impact to drive the ridiculous # of decks screws you'll likely need.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

As long as their the right angle, length and clipped or full head to fit the gun they'll work, regardless of you makes them. However certain types have a greater selection than others. That said, since you're not doing it for a living... you won't run THAT many nails. Just pick what's convenient to buy. In the end the small price difference in nails, is lost in cost of other things when doing reno/construction.

I don't see much need for a nailer in doing a deck (hangers, structural nails and deck screws)... but its nice to have when it comes time for framing. I'd make sure you have a nice drill or impact to drive the ridiculous # of decks screws you'll likely need.

I hear ya, it's more the availability than the cost for me. I want to make sure I can just run up the road to Home Depot and buy the nails I need mid project when I run out.

And I'm likely going the hidden fastener route for the deck boards, which will help cut down on how many screws I'll need to drive.

 

[NedNorton]

Hey buddy,

I was a contractor/carpenter for over 15 years and have used these guns day in and day out. I agree with some of the folks above, buy an Hitachi. Used if you need to save on funds. They are rebuildable. If you want to buy new the Bostich, Porter Cable and Senco aren't bad but no where near as tough as the Hitachi. I ran multiple crews and have had and killed them all. Skip the HF.

I'm also going to add that you want one with Tool-less Depth Adjustments so you don't blow the heads of your nails (8 ring shanks) through the sheeting (must be flush to pass framing). Here are a few detail shots of my gun. (I did own a 6 Hitachis, enough to outfit the guys without guns, before the recession and I sold them all but this one. It was the least beat-up cosmetically. They ALL fired great even with all the abuse. Just remember to oil it before use.)

The adjuster is the little silver barrel near the tip.


Also, you want to get a hook. Some guns come with one, some do not. The hook will make life much easier I.E. hooking it on your belt, ladder or a rafter. You will never see a gun on a site without a hook.


Do the Tikos by hand or get a palm nailer.

Lastly, get a good 100' -1/4 light weight hose. The old school rubber ones are fine inside working on the car but the light weight hose will save our arm and they get in the way far less.

Hope this helps and can't wait to see how the projects unfold. Judging by the garage makeover they are going to be excellent. Speaking about the garage, when is the lift being installed?

Cheers,
Chris

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Hey buddy,

I was a contractor/carpenter for over 15 years and have used these guns day in and day out. I agree with some of the folks above, buy an Hitachi. Used if you need to save on funds. They are rebuildable. If you want to buy new the Bostich, Porter Cable and Senco aren't bad but no where near as tough as the Hitachi. I ran multiple crews and have had and killed them all. Skip the HF.

I'm also going to add that you want one with Tool-less Depth Adjustments so you don't blow the heads of your nails (8 ring shanks) through the sheeting (must be flush to pass framing). Here are a few detail shots of my gun. (I did own 6 before the recession and I sold them all but this one. It was the least beat-up cosmetically. They ALL fired great even with all the abuse. Just remember to oil it before use.)

The adjuster is the little silver barrel near the tip.


Also, you want to get a hook. Some guns come with one, some do not. The hook will make life much easier I.E. hooking it on your belt, ladder or a rafter. You will never see a gun on a site without a hook.


Do the Tikos by hand or get a palm nailer.

Lastly, get a good 100' -1/4 light weight hose. The old school rubber ones are fine inside working on the car but the light weight hose will save our arm and they get in the way far less.

Hope this helps and can't wait to see how the projects unfold. Judging by the garage makeover they are going to be excellent. Speaking about the garage, when is the lift being installed?

Cheers,
Chris

Hey Chris, thanks so much for taking the time for the detailed write up/explanation/recommendation. It definitely helped a lot. When I was researching my trim nailer, everything I read also said to buy the Hitachi, and many have in this thread as well. I am a firm believer in buying the correct tool the first time, and one that will last (hopefully) a lifetime, so it sounds like I am going to just bite the bullet and buy one. I have $100 amazon gift card, so I can use that to help take the sting out. It seems that the ones they sell have a little more of a narrower range of nails in terms of length that they accept. What is the most common length I should be using for either the deck or framing out walls?

Oh, and the lift is arriving march 24th, 5 more days

 

[ADSR]

I have the Bostitch 28 Degree stick framer, its a great gun and the nails are easy to find cheap.

This is good advice. These are the cheapest nails to use and find. I wouldn't use anything else.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F3E7KG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[NedNorton]

Glad my .02 helps a little. Just an FYI... I would look for the Hitachi xxxA2 version. They have the xxxA3 and it sounds like it isn't as good. Amazon still sells the A2 plus I think it goes for $260ish instead of $300. Don't forget the hook. It's been a while but I think they called it a "Rafter Hook" officially.

This is a long one. Sorry. Feel free to pM me if there is anything I can elaborate on or if a question comes up during a project. When in doubt, check the nail schedule or call the engineer.

Nails...

You really are only shooting 2 sizes; 2 3/8 ring shank 8's & 3" or 3 1/4" 16's in a few different variations. Out here no engineer signs off on clipped head nails. My guess is that they have fallen out of favor for strength reasons. Your structural engineer should specify the nails and pattern on your stamped plans.

Sheeting - You will be using, baring some strange engineering, 2 3/8 Glue-Coated ring shank 8's. As stated before, you need to set the depth so you are making the head flush and you don't countersink the nail. Sheeting is designed for shear, amongst other things, and you negate that when you shoot through it.

Deck Framing - 3" or 3 1/4", 16's - Hot Dipped Galvanized. These are more expensive than the non-dipped (2x-3x the price) but worth it in your climate. I grew up outside of DC so I know the east coast well and one thing is for sure, the humidity likes to kill fasteners.

Building Framing, first floor and ground/concrete contact- We always used Hot-Dipped 16's for the framing on the first floor due to moister and, there was a time that the pressure treated lumber was eating the non-coated fasteners. They put out the warnings months after they changed the lumber. A lot of houses were built with the standard nails into that corrosive lumber. Since that little happy bulletin, it was hot-dipped on the first floor from then on, even here in sunny, dry Colorado. Things may have changed but the galvanized nails are cheap insurance and were worth the little added expense for the peace of mind. Other's, I'm sure, may have an opinion that may be different. For a few extra bucks in nails, I knew there wouldn't be issues.

Regular 16's for the rest of the framing in either 3" or 3 1/4".

Remember that these are 8 and 16 gun nails not common. There is a difference.

That should cover it for what you are getting into. Like I said, Pm me with anything else. I'm happy to help.

Cheers,
Chris

 

[scooby074]

Hitachi

I got a Bostich 18ga nailer last year and it blew out a seal after the first week. Pressure was only 90psi (rated for 120 I think). The Dewalt and Bostich share the same parts now, at least in the finish nailers. Id pass on Bostich, the quality just isnt there anymore.

 

[dgreen1069]

I have Paslode framing and finishing nailers and ,over them both. That said, if I haven't used them in a while the batteries are ALWAYS dead and need a charge before I can get to work. Not a deal breaker but inconvenient for days when I haven't planned ahead before starting a project. They are super portable which is really nice.

 

[Notgrownup]

I built my shop with a Harbor Freight framing nailer....never flinched, worked fine...$55 , I was gonna sell it but for $55 it ain't worth selling....For a deck I would use screws and lag screws ...with a hamme drill

 

[ADSR]

The Recon Bostich I linked to above is 160 and has built a few houses. Hitachi is pretty much the Cadillac of nailers. The question is, do you need a caddy?

Or can you get by the HF for 55 bucks?

 

[Notgrownup]

I might never use mine again so that is why I bought the HF one....I wouldn't say fir one minute that it's a high quality tool.

 

[finn]

My Paslode framer has been flawless.

If I somehow needed to replace it, I'd seriously consider a model that doesn't need an air compressor. I seem to have a lot of projects that require only the a couple of strips of nails.

 

[Milzo]

On a side note I work for a deck building company. we do about 250 decks a season. make sure to read the American Wood Council's Prescriptive Guide to Wood Decks. I suggest calculating tributary loads to determine your footing size. It also has span charts to help you figure your beams and joists. Also make sure to use a ledger lock or GRK RSS for fastening your ledger to your house if you have 2x10 house rim. We see decks every season that fall off the house because the ledger was only attached with nails or decking screws. PM me if you need any help planning it out.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I never used a Hitachi but I can't say I've heard anything bad about them. I've seen many Paslodes and Bostich nailers run flawlesssly too. Personally I have a Porter-Cable FC350 and it has worked absolutely fine for me through numerous projects. I also have a PC roof nailer and a Bostich brad nailer that work great.

Once you buy one, you'll use it more than you think. Figure out what nails you can find locally and buy a name brand unit. Bang some nails, not your head trying to get a nail gun to work.

 

[Notgrownup]

On a side note I work for a deck building company. we do about 250 decks a season. make sure to read the American Wood Council's Prescriptive Guide to Wood Decks. I suggest calculating tributary loads to determine your footing size. It also has span charts to help you figure your beams and joists. Also make sure to use a ledger lock or GRK RSS for fastening your ledger to your house if you have 2x10 house rim. We see decks every season that fall off the house because the ledger was only attached with nails or decking screws. PM me if you need any help planning it out.

Also, make sure it is spaced from the house to eliminate chances of moisture getting stuck in there and creating mold...Ask me how I know....

 

[Soslow]

I have a large bostitch framing nailer that has served me very well. Plenty of power and not too heavy. I've also got a couple of pastors trim guns which are very handy. They're nice when u don't wanna drag out the compressor