Question about running power from house to pole barn.

[Skdrcr23]

I plan on running 100a service to my pole barn from house. From what I've read I should use 2 2 2 4 ser/urd
In 2 inch conduit. 100a breaker on pole barn panel and
90a breaker on main panel in house side correct?
The panel in my house is a bryant which I think is no
Longer in business. Will an Eaton breaker work with it?
Also couldn't I run 3 wires of number 2 xhhw instead of
2 2 2 4 and then just use grounding rods coming from
Panel in pole barn? That is using a 100a main panel in my
Pole barn instead of sub panel.

 

[sberry]

You need 4 wires and ground rods coming from an existing service .

 

[CNGsaves]

Few more things that GJ Sparky's will need to give best advice:

a) What Country are you in ??
b) Distance from house to detached garage
c) Pictures of Main Panel in house (both Cover ON . . . and. . . Cover OFF)
d) Expected electrical loads in the detached garage (ie pole barn)

UPDATE GJ Profile with a Location. Good luck.

 

[pattenp]

SER can't be used underground and URD is not allowed inside. You need to use MHF or THHN/THWN or RHH/RHW-2/USE or XHHW-2.

 

[Skdrcr23]

It will be about a 200ft run of wire from house to shop.
I'm located in Missouri. I will try to take pics of panel tonight. So I can't run SER underground even if it's in
Schedule 40 conduit?
As far as electrical loads, probably nothing more than
60 amps? I will just be lighting, recepticles, compressor
And 2 post lift.
I went to electrical supply store and the only 2 2 2 4 wire
They had was in SER. They did have direct bury 2 2 4, then he said I could run an extra xhhw 2 with it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm located in Missouri. I will try to take pics of panel tonight. So I can't run SER underground even if it's in Schedule 40 conduit?

Underground conduit is not guaranteed to be "waterproof". That is the issue.

It will be about a 200ft run of wire from house to shop.
.
.
.
As far as electrical loads, probably nothing more than 60 amps? I will just be lighting, recepticles, compressor And 2 post lift.

Good because if you are going to use an aluminum conductor cable, 60A is the max current you can pass at that distance ! So trade your 90A breaker in the main panel for a 60A one.

I went to electrical supply store and the only 2 2 2 4 wire They had was in SER.

Home Depot, Menards and Lowes carry 2-2-2-4 MHF cable. It can also be be purchased online (even eBay) and delivered. <$1.50/ft is a good price.

MHF is usually the most cost effective cable for wiring an out building. It can be direct buried or placed in a conduit. Any place where MHF is used ABOVE GROUND, it MUST be in a conduit.

They did have direct bury 2 2 4, then he said I could run an extra xhhw 2 with it.

Tell the guy to get off his dead *** and you a quote on MHF or go shop somewhere else. (MHF is typically made up of 4 XHHW-2 conductors, one having a white tracer and one all green or green tracer. It is almost always cheaper to buy the pre-made cable than buy individual conductors.)

 

[sberry]

It's not really a cable but is cheaper.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

If you're only going with 60 amps, then 2-2-2-4 MHF would be acceptable. At that length, if you're looking to run 90 amps you'll want to upsize the wire. MHF may be used inside the structure, but must be in conduit when indoors, and when above ground outdoors. Conduit is cheap, I would run it the whole way. URD is not allowed inside a structure at all, and must be spliced to an acceptable cable prior to entering the building.

Even at short distances, 2-2-2-4 is only good for 90 amps when used to feed a subpanel from the main panel. For a service to the main panel, 100 amps is allowed.

As far as the breaker, Cutler Hammer is a division of Eaton, and the Eaton Cutler Hammer BR series breakers should work with any Bryant panel (hence the BR). Should be able to get them at any Lowes, HD, or supply house.

 

[Pwrgeek]

At this distance I'd use some #2 Cu THHN from the main panel to a junction box near where the conduit leaves the house. Then from there to the barn I'd use either 2/0 Al or 1/0 Cu hot legs a #2 Cu or Al neutral and a #8 Cu or #6 Al EGC all in THWN-2 for voltage drop considerations to the panel in the garage. That way you get the 90A you wanted. If you go with 2-2-2-4 MHF the whole way you're only going to get about 60A based on the voltage drop limitation.


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[wyliesdiesels]

I plan on running 100a service to my pole barn from house. From what I've read I should use 2 2 2 4 ser/urd
In 2 inch conduit. 100a breaker on pole barn panel and
90a breaker on main panel in house side correct?
The panel in my house is a bryant which I think is no
Longer in business. Will an Eaton breaker work with it?
Also couldn't I run 3 wires of number 2 xhhw instead of
2 2 2 4 and then just use grounding rods coming from
Panel in pole barn? That is using a 100a main panel in my
Pole barn instead of sub panel.

Grounding electrodes and equipment grounds are 2 different animals. Dont confuse the 2. U need both for a detached structure not one or the other.

Read and study this before u make a mistake:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/articles/the-confusion-of-the-term-grounding/

It will be about a 200ft run of wire from house to shop.
I'm located in Missouri. I will try to take pics of panel tonight. So I can't run SER underground even if it's in
Schedule 40 conduit?
As far as electrical loads, probably nothing more than
60 amps? I will just be lighting, recepticles, compressor
And 2 post lift.
I went to electrical supply store and the only 2 2 2 4 wire
They had was in SER. They did have direct bury 2 2 4, then he said I could run an extra xhhw 2 with it.

Underground conduit will inevitably fill with water. SER CANNOT be used underground. For al SER the bare ground will turn into a pasty substance if left sitting in water...

Get some MHF and be done with it.

 

[Norcal]

In addition to comment above, Eaton is the Classified replacement for Bryant, BR, the BR line has been branded as Westinghouse, Cutler-Hammer, & now Eaton, I just call it "Zinsco II". When a breaker is produced by the same manufacturer as the panel, it is UL (or other NRTL) listed for said panel, when a competitive manufacturer, or successor like Eaton, makes a breaker to fit a competitive make they are UL classified to fit specified makes and models of load centers.

Eaton bought the electrical div. of Westinghouse over 20 years ago, Bryant was their residential, light commercial line that Westinghouse put their name on before they sold it, which was folded into Eaton's Cutler-Hammer brand, they have been rebranding everything as Eaton, which should make things even more confusing over time, as other manufacturers have been bought out or gone out of business.

NTRL is Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, such as UL, ETL, CSA..

 

[dw1]

In addition to comment above, Eaton is the Classified replacement for Bryant, BR, the BR line has been branded as Westinghouse, Cutler-Hammer, & now Eaton, I just call it "Zinsco II". When a breaker is produced by the same manufacturer as the panel, it is UL (or other NRTL) listed for said panel, when a competitive manufacturer, or successor like Eaton, makes a breaker to fit a competitive make they are UL classified to fit specified makes and models of load centers.

Eaton bought the electrical div. of Westinghouse over 20 years ago, Bryant was their residential, light commercial line that Westinghouse put their name on before they sold it, which was folded into Eaton's Cutler-Hammer brand, they have been rebranding everything as Eaton, which should make things even more confusing over time, as other manufacturers have been bought out or gone out of business.

NTRL is Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, such as UL, ETL, CSA..

I was going to reply to this thread about the Eaton BR breaker would need to be listed for the Bryant panel, but I was'nt sure if it was. I thought Bryant was tied to Murray-- (ITE/Siemens) and it would'nt be listed, thanks for the info, learn something everyday.

 

[pattenp]

They did have direct bury 2 2 4, then he said I could run an extra xhhw 2 with it.

The 2-2-4 is most likely URD which is only USE-2 rated insulation and is not allowed inside the structure. You need to make sure the wire you get is also rated for inside installation. The XHHW-2 is okay for inside when in conduit. Mobile Home Feeder (MHF) is actually RHH/RHW-2/USE-2 rated, not XHHW-2 and is allowed inside when in conduit.

 

[Skdrcr23]

So running the mhf through 200 feet of conduit,
Would It be better to leave the conduit disconnected
Until I have the wire completely ran, then attach it
With wire already inside versus trying to fish the wire
That far. Also the path will have to cross where the main power to my house comes from. My only other option would be to run SER from the panel through my attic to
The front of my house to a junction box, then run mhf from there to the panel in the shop. This way will also
Reduce my wire distance down 50 ft or so.

 

[Skdrcr23]

I just pulled my main panel cover off and I'm out of
Room it appears. Here's a pic for gj sparky that was
Requested earlier.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Time to clean that panel up.

Looks like u have GE and Sq D breakers in a bryant panel. Thats a NO NO! The Eaton BRs are fine.

U will either need to put in a subpanel next to the main or find a quad breaker.

 

[Norcal]

Time to clean that panel up.

Looks like u have GE and Sq D breakers in a bryant panel. Thats a NO NO! The Eaton BRs are fine.

U will either need to put in a subpanel next to the main or find a quad breaker.

What Wyliesdiesels said, another option is a new panel, but quads will be cheaper & quicker.

SQ D is not UL classified to be used in any make of panel, they are only UL listed to be used in SQ D panels. UL listed is for same make of panel / breakers, UL classifies some makes to be used in competitors panels.

 

[Skdrcr23]

How does a quad breaker work

 

[dw1]

Looks like this:
https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...reakers/Eaton/BQ220250/product.aspx?zpid=6318

Takes the space of one double pole breaker, but is actually two. I am not sure what the biggest size quad breaker you can get, I dont think I have seen them above 50 amp? but you can check.

 

[oldiemotors]

I think it is safe to say that you are asking more from that panel than it was designed to give.