The VISES of Garage Journal

georgiadave · Apr 12, 2016

KMScott said:
Finished this Wilton 500S. It was really rough when I started, but finished up pretty good. It is amazing how these vises hold up to abuse. I repaired the spindle groove by making it wider and then making a thicker washer. The backlash is now better. Gotta keep these washers greased. Added a new handle, endcap, lockdowns, and jaws. No epoxy or body filler used, did do some welding to repair the wild grinding done by the previous owner, also cleaned up a bunch of welding splatter. Bought it for $70 a while back. Wanted to practice several new repairs on this one. Still got another 50 years left.

Those endcaps are hard to find. Can you tell us where you get them?

1/2 Cup · Apr 12, 2016

Not an old vise by any stretch but this is my Dawn 125 that was stripped back to bare metal and I have just purchased a vise break to do those fiddly bend jobs.

It works a treat. :thumbup:

View media item 59575
Technical details of the break.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/V051

Regards

code4pay · Apr 12, 2016

1/2 Cup said:
Not an old vise by any stretch but this is my Dawn 125 that was stripped back to bare metal and I have just purchased a vise break to do those fiddly bend jobs.

It works a treat.[emoji106]

View media item 59575
Technical details of the break.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/V051

Regards

Vice Looks great. Is it true that Dawn had a blue coloured vice for "pro" use and red for more general users?

Ralf99 · Apr 12, 2016

code4pay said:
Vice Looks great. Is it true that Dawn had a blue coloured vice for "pro" use and red for more general users?

Yes, the Heavy Duty "cast steel" vices were painted blue in the 1970's, while the regular "cast semi-steel" were the traditional red.

I have only ever seen one or two in blue, but probably thousands in red.

A page from the 1972 Dawn catalogue:

KMScott · Apr 12, 2016

georgiadave said:
Those endcaps are hard to find. Can you tell us where you get them?

I make them from solid material. Some guys buy freeze plugs and with wood or something round pound out the radius. I have the machinery to fab from solid so I do it that way. If interested in making your own then let me know and I can send a sketch or PM me.

drivesitfar · Apr 12, 2016

1/2: that vise break is AWESOME and I didn't know they made one. thanks for sharing. maybe we should have a thread of vise ACCESSORIES?

Dave: some guys go to the auto parts store with their vise and find freeze plugs to fit their Wiltons either in aluminum or brass for about $1. just note that the freeze plugs are flat so if you want to round them up a bit there are a few ways shown how to do that on the Vise Repair 101 thread now. or some guys are cutting the caps of chain link fence posts to fit that are a little heavier gauge and already round. the one KMSCOTT just showed he made for a small baby bullet and not sure he would make one that way for a full size Wilton, but he might.

partsproduction · Apr 12, 2016

My Wilton 6" offset vise was built by Dawn in Australia, and is blue, but I suspect that is Wilton blue, not Dawn blue.

partsproduction · Apr 12, 2016

Chilang: not trying to defend the CHEAP TOOLS that come out of CHINA just the importers that won't pay for the GOOD STUFF is more the problem.

You are one of the few people who understand this. There are many reasons for it, a lot of patriotic reasons, and unions of course, but long ago when I was just starting my machine shop an old machinist said the same thing. "Any people can produce any quality if you are willing to pay for it" he said.

Many years later I was visiting a machine shop in LA, the old guy had a Chinese manual lathe with Chinese writing only on it, except the numerals, and he said it was one of the best engine lathes he had ever run, made in Communist China.

I have a Chinese lathe now, a 14X40, the ways are several inches wider than most 14" lathes, the hole through the spindle is 2 1/2", and it's just a great lathe, almost twice as heavy as my other 1440 lathe, a real industrial machine. It cost $8000 new (1999) and a comparable Western lathe would have cost twice as much.

CrotalusAtrox · Apr 12, 2016

partsproduction said:
You are one of the few people who understand this. There are many reasons for it, a lot of patriotic reasons, and unions of course, but long ago when I was just starting my machine shop an old machinist said the same thing. "Any people can produce any quality if you are willing to pay for it" he said.

Many years later I was visiting a machine shop in LA, the old guy had a Chinese manual lathe with Chinese writing only on it, except the numerals, and he said it was one of the best engine lathes he had ever run, made in Communist China.

I have a Chinese lathe now, a 14X40, the ways are several inches wider than most 14" lathes, the hole through the spindle is 2 1/2", and it's just a great lathe, almost twice as heavy as my other 1440 lathe, a real industrial machine. It cost $8000 new (1999) and a comparable Western lathe would have cost twice as much.

Funny how a certain comment about cheap import products gets misconstrued as all imported products are junk . I simply stated that the tools a former boss was purchasing were inferior to american made tools. Most countries can build fine pieces of equipment and can build them cheaper then American can today. I agree about patriotism wish there was more of it, also wish that more Americans would understand that without American progress most of the other countries wouldn't have a clue on production and quality control. I guess it is not cool anymore to be proud of a great country seems the new trend is to be apologetic for our past successes. Enough of my rant this is a Vise forum I went off the rails. GOD BLESS CHINA :thumbup:

joe.striper · Apr 12, 2016

OK Boys, any idea who made this one???? I'm stumped. American made that's for sure. Large jaw support says Athol to me, but the base and overall shape has me head scratching. :headscrat

code4pay · Apr 12, 2016

partsproduction said:
My Wilton 6" offset vise was built by Dawn in Australia, and is blue, but I suspect that is Wilton blue, not Dawn blue.

Nice is that new or restored? Never realised they exported vices.

bubinga · Apr 12, 2016

partsproduction said:
My Wilton 6" offset vise was built by Dawn in Australia, and is blue, but I suspect that is Wilton blue, not Dawn blue.

OH MY God,
How cool is That?
Never saw one like that.

CwazyWabbit · Apr 12, 2016

code4pay said:
Nice is that new or restored? Never realised they exported vices.

I have two Dawn offset vices here in the UK so I guess they must've done a reasonable amount of exporting.

meatsis · Apr 12, 2016

bubinga said:
OH MY God,
How cool is That?
Never saw one like that.

Some clown on eBay was trying to sell one of these for $1500. Pretty sure it never sold

CwazyWabbit · Apr 12, 2016

$1500 you say, I'd even ship them overseas for that

Ralf99 · Apr 12, 2016

partsproduction said:
My Wilton 6" offset vise was built by Dawn in Australia, and is blue, but I suspect that is Wilton blue, not Dawn blue.

Well I never knew they manufactured them with the Wilton name too.
Given the jaw configuration and the apparently recent ID sticker on the slide, I'm guessing this to be a relatively new vice?

Ralf99 · Apr 12, 2016

CwazyWabbit said:
I have two Dawn offset vices here in the UK so I guess they must've done a reasonable amount of exporting.

Most of the offset Dawns that pop up on the forum outside of Australia and New Zealand are from the 80s or younger. They probably shipped the majority to Commonwealth countries.

Evilunclegrimace · Apr 12, 2016

Ok this might be a silly question but, what is the purpose of an offset vice?

CwazyWabbit · Apr 12, 2016

Ralf99 said:
Most of the offset Dawns that pop up on the forum outside of Australia and New Zealand are from the 80s or younger. They probably shipped the majority to Commonwealth countries.

Mine look to be quite young as the names seem to be jaw width in mm ....

Evilunclegrimace said:
Ok this might be a silly question but, what is the purpose of an offset vice?

You can clamp tall things in them with out the slide getting in the way.

drivesitfar · Apr 12, 2016

EVIL: so the user can get a better hold of a vertical piece he or she is working on. I think there are other offset vises (vices), but can't recall all the makers of them. Dawn made quite a few and was the first one i'd ever seen a few years ago. I think there are a few old US and English vise makers of this style, but I don't remember who made them.

CwazyWabbit · Apr 12, 2016

Just for a mix here's an English one with an Australian one

Evilunclegrimace · Apr 12, 2016

OK thanks guys, I guess it is a perspective kind of thing.( as in I was not thinking about clamping something vertically)

Ralf99 · Apr 12, 2016

CwazyWabbit said:
Mine look to be quite young as the names seem to be jaw width in mm ....

Yep, the names are the jaw widths in mm - not sure when Dawn made this change, but it was presumably by 1977 when the imperial system was officially dead and buried in Australia. The change to the jaw inserts being bolted through from the rear rather than the face shows up in the 1982 catalogue, but may have been around a year or two before. Your 75 would likely be a mid 80s jobbie, while the 100 with the shiny plating on the lead screw and the barcode is early 90s or younger - but given that nobody currently at Dawn customer service seems to know how to ID the older vices, this is more of an educated guess...

454ragtop · Apr 12, 2016

joe.striper said:
OK Boys, any idea who made this one???? I'm stumped. American made that's for sure. Large jaw support says Athol to me, but the base and overall shape has me head scratching.

Joe, it looks kind of like a Columbian to me, jaw support doesn't look as massive as you usually see on an Athol, IMO. If nothing else, figured you needed a bump, post got lost in the offset vise excitement.
Jim

CwazyWabbit · Apr 12, 2016

Ralf99 said:
CwazyWabbit said:

Mine look to be quite young as the names seem to be jaw width in mm ....

Yep, the names are the jaw widths in mm - not sure when Dawn made this change, but it was presumably by 1977 when the imperial system was officially dead and buried in Australia. The change to the jaw inserts being bolted through from the rear rather than the face shows up in the 1982 catalogue, but may have been around a year or two before. Your 75 would likely be a mid 80s jobbie, while the 100 with the shiny plating on the lead screw and the barcode is early 90s or younger - but given that nobody currently at Dawn customer service seems to know how to ID the older vices, this is more of an educated guess...

Click to expand...

I'll have a look at the barcode label on it in the morning and see if it has any more info on it ....

Outlawmws · Apr 12, 2016

CwazyWabbit said:
Just for a mix here's an English one with an Australian one

So that's like you still insist on driving on the wrong side of the road? :evil:

CwazyWabbit · Apr 12, 2016

Lol, yep

Although the Australians also drive on the left

joe.striper · Apr 12, 2016

454ragtop said:
Joe, it looks kind of like a Columbian to me, jaw support doesn't look as massive as you usually see on an Athol, IMO. If nothing else, figured you needed a bump, post got lost in the offset vise excitement.
Jim

thanks Jim, yeah everyone hates me :lol_hitti

spoke to the seller, it has a 'D' on the side. waiting for jaw measurements. it is 35.00

Motorman55 · Apr 12, 2016

va.grouseman. My 4" Scout has the same top row numbers on the bottom as yours but no other numbers anywhere on the vise. I think eventually I'll bolt it to my desk and use it as a walnut cracker. Thanks for info.

Evergreentree · Apr 12, 2016

Alert guys!

A really nice Erie 6" jaw complete (possibly missing pipe jaws) center bolt popped up on the jersey shore craigslist.

Worth all of the 150 he's asking! Oh yea obo!

Outlawmws · Apr 12, 2016

CwazyWabbit said:
Lol, yep Although the Australians also drive on the left

Nope! They actually drive on the right - as seen from the top of the world looking down! :see:

And now you can see how your English vise was a copy! :evil:

va.grouseman · Apr 12, 2016

Motorman, they are good little vises for light shop-work.---You can get a lot more out of it than cracking walnuts.
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Drive, Hollands made an offset like the Dawn.-=--You can read on it on page 67, post [/U]1328.---It is a 91 lb.er.---Man I would like to find one of those.---It appears there was a lot of copying going on back in the day. :headscrat

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85854&d=1290377079

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85856&d=1290377079

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85855&d=1290377079
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Cwazy, you failed to mention that your offset is a Fortis Offset, 6'' jaws.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=456895&d=1435952863

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=456896&d=1435952863

bagged89s10 · Apr 12, 2016

joe.striper said:
OK Boys, any idea who made this one???? I'm stumped. American made that's for sure. Large jaw support says Athol to me, but the base and overall shape has me head scratching.

The base and smaller nose says starret to me.

Evilunclegrimace · Apr 12, 2016

I've been perusing this thread for the last week of so and I see that there have been several informal "who is bigger". There has been the widest jaws and the heaviest weight so, who has the widest opening, jaw face to jaw face? My Holland # 27 is about 16".

Ralf99 · Apr 12, 2016

CwazyWabbit said:
Lol, yep Although the Australians also drive on the left

That would be the "correct" side of the road...

Dawn make a "left handed" or "cack handed" version of their offset vice also for those less fortunate.

Motorman55 · Apr 12, 2016

va.grouseman said:
Motorman, they are good little vises for light shop-work.---You can get a lot more out of it than cracking walnuts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drive, Hollands made an offset like the Dawn.-=--You can read on it on page 67, post [/U]1328.---It is a 91 lb.er.---Man I would like to find one of those.---It appears there was a lot of copying going on back in the day.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85854&d=1290377079

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85856&d=1290377079

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85855&d=1290377079

Yeah, but I already have another seven vises bolted on my work benches in my shop...but none bolted to my desk. Did I mention my desk is in the house.

Shiftless · Apr 12, 2016

Evilunclegrimace said:
I've been perusing this thread for the last week of so and I see that there have been several informal "who is bigger". There has been the widest jaws and the heaviest weight so, who has the widest opening, jaw face to jaw face? My Holland # 27 is about 16".

Although not nearly as large as your Hollands, I would happily trade my 5 inch Wilton bullet for a 2 inch one.

va.grouseman · Apr 13, 2016

Previously posted by Motorman55.

Yeah, but I already have another seven vises bolted on my work benches in my shop...but none bolted to my desk. Did I mention my desk is in the house.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then cracking walnuts it is.---And just how long is your work-bench?---I'm assuming this is a business/industrial bench, or else you have a vise for every conceivable application.

pwhittle · Apr 13, 2016

I picked this Wilton Tilt Vice up at my local Goodwill store for $3.93

It is is rough shape, but if anyone wants it, it is available for $3.93 plus actual shipping.

Paul

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

partsproduction · Apr 13, 2016

I bought my Wilton 6" OS for $285 approximately about 8 years ago in ebay, brand new. It is my main vise in the shop other than milling machine vises.
The OS vises have an achilles heel, any excess strain will make the jaws diverge because the stresses are no balanced. We've used ours with pretty high pressures without seeing it yet though.

On milling machine vises though, I mentioned the leading brand US made mill vise to a guy, his comment left my mind reaching for answers. "I've broken 6 of them" he said.

You don't have to have too much on the ball to understand that beyond the yeild point no amount of extra force will make a vise hold better, because the jaws are no longer paralegal, so beyond a certain point you may have line contact at best, instead of area contact. Just a bit more and you have point contact!
What kind of imbecile torques a vise so hard that he is left with point contact? The moment you lose area contact the vise loses most of it's holding capacity! Tightening it beyond that point actually gives less holding strength.
I submit that overstresssing a milling machine vise to the point that it breaks should automatically earn an idiot of the year medal.

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