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Lista work station vs my Snap On Epiq

woodstockva

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But here we have a fellow who has apparently handled a new Lista, and he believes they are no better than a Husky!

I'm baffled.


Probably because these junky old Lista's dont have chrome rims ;)

The cheapo Husky boxes I looked at around Christmas had a 50lb weight rating per drawer! I leaned down on it with one hand in the center of the drawer and it would not slide in or out....

:lol:
 
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jeeper93436

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I have a Vidmar and a Lista. I think the Lista/Vidmar critics have never seen one in person. There is a reason machine shops, the military, NASA, and heavy duty industrial users prefer them....they hold over 400lbs per drawer and open EASIER when fully loaded.

I would not trade mine for any normal toolbox.

The only complaint I have would be the drawer width.

i have seen it and felt it. like i said i havent moved into the new workstation so my opinions were from first impression. once i start using them ill put a update.
 

Ruger_556

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Probably because these junky old Lista's dont have chrome rims ;)

The cheapo Husky boxes I looked at around Christmas had a 50lb weight rating per drawer! I leaned down on it with one hand in the center of the drawer and it would not slide in or out....

:lol:

Hey now... My 25 lb C-man friction slides hold 150 lbs okay. Admittedly you have to hold the box up with one hand when you open the drawer but minor details right? :lol_hitti
 
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jeeper93436

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Probably because these junky old Lista's dont have chrome rims ;)

The cheapo Husky boxes I looked at around Christmas had a 50lb weight rating per drawer! I leaned down on it with one hand in the center of the drawer and it would not slide in or out....

:lol:
the ones im talking about are not old. brand new out of the box. Husky Pro line, im comparing them with.
 

kenburkholz

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At my old job we had Stanley vidmar cabinets with a 400 lb rating for each drawer, they were great ! I have never seen a toolbox with this rating, just saying. Ken.
 
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jeeper93436

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Looking at your previous thread here ---> http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3299894&postcount=85

I can see why you wouldnt be happy changing boxes, especially since you have had it less than a year in service.

Sorry to hear you are being forced into using something you dont want...at least you still have the Epiq at home... :dunno:

im not really upset that im forced to used a different box but that its a down grade from what i have. im not taking the box home. all my tools wont fit in new work station so we are storing all the techs boxes in another building.
 

skylinegtr20

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^ Great waste of space & productivity lol I would tell them to buy some more Lista cabinets to hold the rest of your tools :p
 

JoeMA

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But here we have a fellow who has apparently handled a new Lista, and he believes they are no better than a Husky!

I'm baffled.

Bull- I have a 40in Lista mobile toolbox (all full length drawers) with the new drawer design. You can rest assured that it is every bit as good as older Listas that I have handled. No comparison to a Husky.

OP- Post a picture of your setup at work. Interested in seeing it.
 
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MattPersman

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The dealer just picks whatever the company is selling to them that is doing the internal shop stuff. Some use Shure, lista, snap on, and there are probably some lesser known names out there. Those industrial brands are ok and they do store tools but they are no where near as nice as an epic plain and simple. I am quite sure several of is that have epics also have worked with a shure or lista box at another shop so it's not something we are making up.
 

Wamsutta

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The dealer just picks whatever the company is selling to them that is doing the internal shop stuff. Some use Shure, lista, snap on, and there are probably some lesser known names out there. Those industrial brands are ok and they do store tools but they are no where near as nice as an epic plain and simple. I am quite sure several of is that have epics also have worked with a shure or lista box at another shop so it's not something we are making up.

Are the Epiq's built better than a KRL ?
 

Heavy Metal Doctor

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Are the Epiq's built better than a KRL ?

IMO, after owning a number of KRL's and then moving to an Epiq, they have a few spots beefed up to match the wider drawers and such, but overall not "better" just "nicer". If all I want to do is store tools well for years - get a KRL, but if you WANT the nicer extras the Epiq offers, get one of them.
 

Spudland_Dave

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I think if you were to buy your Lista products from Motorhead Extraordinaire, he would go above and beyond to take care of any customer service needs.

I know what your saying and by all accounts and posts I've seen here..I agree, IF I were to ever buy a Lista, Motorhead Extrodinaire would be my first and probably only call.
BUT, the fact remains I've read many threads here where ME does chime in and go above & beyond to help a Lista customer, no doubt there and kudos to ME, but 9 times out of 10 the parts are NLA. M.E. may be a great place but they dont have the ability to $hit out NLA Parts...
Just recently I read a thread here were even new drawer pulls were NLA...Seriously? I would think given the design of the lista drawer and pull that the pulls would be a normal service item and thusly commonly available. Not the case. Same for slides, drawer suspension systems, etc... 10 year old Lista...your SOL...30 year old Snappy...No problem. My view on the whole thing is while Lista is indeed a GREAT high quality product, its a disposable product, no different then a 9.99 grinder from HF. You garbage it and buy a new one if you need parts because parts aren't available.

Again, yes corporate America uses Lista boxes...I work in Corporate America...a drawer fails on a lista box, service guy comes out to check it out, they let purchasing dept know parts are NLA and the only way to fix is $10k to replace the whole unit, they reply with "no problem, heres the PO Number" Great business strategy for Lista given its intended market. You think Uncle Sam gives 2 hoots about parts availability and serviceability?


IMO, after owning a number of KRL's and then moving to an Epiq, they have a few spots beefed up to match the wider drawers and such, but overall not "better" just "nicer". If all I want to do is store tools well for years - get a KRL, but if you WANT the nicer extras the Epiq offers, get one of them.

Bingo...Epiq isn't "Better" or stronger then a KRL, the difference is mainly features. Its like comparing a SLE GMC Sierra 2500 to a Sierra Denali 2500 ..both have DMax'es and Allisons, and come off the same line...mechanically the same but the features are very different.
 

warmpancakes

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Bingo...Epiq isn't "Better" or stronger then a KRL, the difference is mainly features. Its like comparing a SLE GMC Sierra 2500 to a Sierra Denali 2500 ..both have DMax'es and Allisons, and come off the same line...mechanically the same but the features are very different.


Nope according to the Idiot neighbor His denali is built in the same plant as the escalades by special workers trained for the high end vehicles:confused:
 

skylinegtr20

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Nope according to the Idiot neighbor His denali is built in the same plant as the escalades by special workers trained for the high end vehicles:confused:

I wouldnt consider a Cadillac a "high end vehicle" in any way, shape, or form. I do however understand what your saying... just had to throw that in there. :beer:
 

bart1

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If I were to buy a real high end box, lista would have been at the top of my list. Likely I would never need a part, but no parts availability is a big issue to me. I'll stick with my cheap homeowner boxes for now, but guess I won't get a lista.

I'm a car guy and my chosen brand can supply most parts for thier cars from the 60s. I love that.
 

Linda@Lista

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I’m sorry to hear about your negative first impression of your Lista workstation. I can assure you that your brand new Lista workstation will be just as sturdy as the older models. Please update us after you have used the workstation for a couple weeks, and if you have any other questions or need any more information, please feel free to contact me directly. Thank you @JoeMA, @Bull, @woodstockva, and @kenburkholz for the kind words on Lista and Vidmar! We certainly appreciate our customers!

so i just got a new job at a Mercedes Benz dealership and they are redoing the shop. we are all getting new Lista work stations to match the dealer colors. so the first thing i did was opened the drawers and they felt like i was opening my old Mac tool box, not impressed. drawer had a lot of play side by side and up and down. the drawer fellt like its not has sturdy has my Epiq tool box. like the metal is not has thick has my Epiq. the side locker on the Lista felt flimsy too compare to me Epiq locker. i havent moved into the Lista box but this was my first impressions. im not sure if theres different quality models of Lista tool boxes but the ones the dealer got are definately not even close to my Epiq. just felt like writing this because before i purchased my tool box a was looking at other brands and i can tell a big difference in quality between my Epiq box and the Lista boxes my dealer got.
 

maintenancemike

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Snap on boxes are for consumers, while lista is what you'll find in air force hangers and in industry. You can't get a lista with naked Dale Earnhardt, though-for 27,000 bucks. On the bright side, they're built about 50% heavier, hold double the weight, and better still you can actually spend that money on real tools, like a Miller welder.
 

Motorhead Extraordinaire

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I finally caught up with this thread and always find the brand loyalty a really great thing among GJ members. Hey, I prefer Fords and you might like Chevy's; that's okay.

We have been selling Lista for over 10 years and Vidmar for about a year. I have never sold Snap On nor am I an expert on their products. Here are a few comments about Lista ....

* Unless you are using a very small box all of the drawers have 440 lb. capacity. Whether loaded with tools or parts for rebuilding rear ends, they are very sturdy. Since the new suspension design went into production 8 years ago we have not had a single suspension failure.
* The drawers are easily dividable with partitions, dividers, plastic boxes, and tool holders.
* Both Lista and Vidmar were born out of the industrial storage area and have very extensive complimentary products that allow a dealership to fully integrate workstations that meet the need of the modern repair shop. Things like cart garage cabinets, lift pump cabinets, integrated overheads with computers built in are all important in the dealerships.
* Long ago a mechanic just needed a toolbox and some tools. Today, the needs of the modern service department go way beyond that to include work space, storage for supplies, computers, lift pumps, garage carts, etc..
* One other point and not intended to piss anyone off but the average dealership, with a multitude of random toolboxes tend to usually look unpleasant, and some outright like junk shops. It's not about the technician individuality the dealership is concerned with, it's the customers experience and the technicians efficiency. By providing professional grade integrated work stations the customers generally like the look and comfort they get from a well organized operation. The technicians also get a better organized work area. At today's shop rates, the customer need to feel good about shelling out their hard earned money.

It's a matter of choice on whose toolbox you like. These day the dealerships are setting the standard of how their repair shop looks and operates, not the technician. This does cause gas pains but then again it can save a technician a bundle of money

And finally, whether you like a Ford or Chevy or whether you like Lista or SnapOn. they are all really great products. There is no need to bash one or the other; we all have our needs and passions.

Joe
 

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thegroundpounder99

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Wow those are some nice work stations. They mentioned the possibility of doing that at our work and I wasn't excited but those have sparked my interest.


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Motorhead Extraordinaire

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Wow those are some nice work stations. They mentioned the possibility of doing that at our work and I wasn't excited but those have sparked my interest.

A lot of the dealers and manufacturers are updating the entire look and feel of a dealership and this includes the service areas. Even the techs of the old school "bring what you got" warm up to the integrated technician workstation. They are really nice, even for a small shop or in a home garage. Good organization and a good work area are a big plus for the techs, dealers, and customers.
 

crbnfbr

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The quote that Lista's are overgrown filing cabinets that are meant for parts storage is half true. They also appear to offer a huge selection of actual tool boxes. Single bank, double bank, triple bank and my favorite the two bay style ranging in heights from 40.5" to 61.25".

Don't get me wrong I'd love a 76" wide Epiq, but for 3x the price as a 78" two bay Lista it's just not possible for my. Btw, looking on Snap on's site I couldn't find a 76" Epiq without that stupid (imho) "powerbank", do they offer one without the "powerbank"?
 

pcmeiners

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Get a kick out of all the guys who worry about parts replacement on Lista cabinets, admittedly companies should have spare parts on hand, but Lista and Vidmar cabinets are basically indestructible unless no one lubricates the roller/bearings/slides ONCE every 10-15 years.
Personally I have all new Vidmars, with steel ball bearings, which is the only part I could see needing replacing in 100 years or so, 200 years if they are oiled. :)
 
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Motorhead Extraordinaire

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Get a kick out of all the guys who worry about parts replacement on Lista cabinets, admittedly companies should have spare parts on hand, but Lista and Vidmar cabinets are basically indestructible unless no one lubricates the roller/bearings/slides ONCE every 10-15 years.
Personally I have all new Vidmars, with steel ball bearings, which is the only part I could see needing replacing in 100 years or so, 200 years if they are oiled. :)

That's a good point. We virtually never have service issues with Lista cabinets. They basically do not break. Will the bearings wear out. Sure, like anything else that is not maintained properly and that are worked to death. I have written about the need to service roller bearings quite often on this forum. I'll bet very few people actually service their cabinets suspension, no matter which make they own.

We have been very successful in getting spare parts for older Lista and Vidmar cabinets but some items, like for 20-30 year old cabinets, are hard to get. We also see a lot of folks trying to rebuild cabinets, both Lista and other brands, that should have been junked. Like an old car, sometimes restorations are out of love and perseverance not necessarily good judgement.

If anyone needs Lista or Vidmar parts let me know. We always do our best to help out GJ folks.

Joe
 

Heavy Metal Doctor

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The quote that Lista's are overgrown filing cabinets that are meant for parts storage is half true. They also appear to offer a huge selection of actual tool boxes. Single bank, double bank, triple bank and my favorite the two bay style ranging in heights from 40.5" to 61.25".

Don't get me wrong I'd love a 76" wide Epiq, but for 3x the price as a 78" two bay Lista it's just not possible for my. Btw, looking on Snap on's site I couldn't find a 76" Epiq without that stupid (imho) "powerbank", do they offer one without the "powerbank"?

Actually, as much I i like my Epiq box and even the "powerbank", I do have a little issue with the line of boxes in general and that is too few size variations / configurations of drawer banks.
I have an 84" box and now need about 20 - 30% more drawer space and there's no "add-on" side banks like they do with the KRL line....yet trading up for a double-box setup is more than I want to spend and really would take up more floor space than I can spare in the shop if not absolutely needed.
 

LXCam

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The best thing I ever did was move away from a standard tool box and go 100% lista. For less then four G's I have 10' 6" of box with 29 drawers. Granted it wasn't an out of the box deal, it took a little effort. But with the help of joe ^^^ it worked out great. I couldn't have touched a comparable deal on a snappy of matco for anywhere close to that cost. As for this style cabinet being of questionable quality, that's too funny. I have a couple older lista's that house all my machining tools that are 15+ years old and other then lubing them have been flawless. Sure SO will replace your slides later on in life, but is it really worth the cost of admission?.

I looked long and hard going with a big boy brand name set up and couldn't touch what I wanted for less then 15grand. Both those companies offer a great product, but pound for pound count me in as a lista fan boy.
 

pcmeiners

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OnSite service?...
What would that incorporate, if you lubricate the bearings/slides once in a decade? What would you want Lista to do? buff and polish, dust out the draws, fix up scratches, replace old labels, move cabinets around your shop for you.
 

2ndGearRubber

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Looking at the blue box posted on the previous page (assuming Id get 1/2 of that total setup), it wouldn't hold all my tools. I can see techs who have serious tool investments, being furious they're being told to ditch the boxes they paid for, change the organizational methods that work for them, and make it work with whatever dealer decided was sufficient. Do you at least get to keep your cart?

8057o_11598204.jpg


I have the montazuma version of this. I'd wish it was a tad bigger, but it wouldn't be feasible to wiggle between cars. I wouldn't give it up for anything smaller either.




I too, would be pissed. I pay for the tools, I decide how they get organized and stored. If MB would like to go half on the tools (or reimburse 1/2 the initial cost of the majority of them), I'd change my tune.



I'm sure Lista makes a fine product. If a tech wants one, go buy it. Being shoe-horned into a one size fits all approach to boxes/storage because some rich ******** might be aghast at some techs box looking unpresentable, is horrifying. Seeing dealers do things like this is one of the many reasons I have zero interest in working for them.
 

Greg85mcss

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Agreed. Unfortunately the trend is toward customers standing over your shoulder while you fix their car. I can't stand when someone is staring at me the whole time or tries to ask questions I shouldn't be answering every time I walk by to talk to the service writer. We joke about putting one guy's krl1033 with a hutch in front of the window.


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Strouty

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I have both an Epiq and new (well junkyard specials, but new) Lista units, they are both great, but the Lista offers much more bang for the buck. I will continue to support my Snap On habit, but I am definitely concentrating on expanding my Lista collection.
 

Heavy Metal Doctor

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OnSite service?...
What would that incorporate, if you lubricate the bearings/slides once in a decade? What would you want Lista to do? buff and polish, dust out the draws, fix up scratches, replace old labels, move cabinets around your shop for you.

Well now that you mention it, any of the tool dealers I have dealt with would do any of the stuff you mention if I asked, but I have never needed to (meaning real maint. - not cleaning)....I have had them spend a fair bit of time changing locks to make all cabinets keyed alike, and setting up / assembly of new boxes....moving's not and issue either as I rarely move the box....

But what I really meant for service on-site is have a salesman bring me some of the product to check out and then give me a good trade-in value on my existing box. I never would have bough the the box I did if they didn't bring me one to put my hands on first - no way I'd spend that much without seeing / touching one first!
 
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pcmeiners

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"But what I really meant for service on-site is have a salesman bring me some of the product to check out and then give me a good trade-in value on my existing box."
I understand Snapon loyalists, I do see the point of the no hassle fast service Snapon provides; much better then crossing one's fingers, hoping a dealer will honor a warranty. Agree I would never purchase any box without checking it out first.
 

Motorhead Extraordinaire

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Looking at the blue box posted on the previous page (assuming Id get 1/2 of that total setup), it wouldn't hold all my tools. I can see techs who have serious tool investments, being furious they're being told to ditch the boxes they paid for, change the organizational methods that work for them, and make it work with whatever dealer decided was sufficient. Do you at least get to keep your cart?

Let's break this down into two different service department models.

1) The OLD School Model - This is where every tech gets to decide what their entire work space looks like; their own box, bench, whatever.... The Tech, who busts his **** for a paycheck not only has to buy their own tools but also has to buy a toolbox. The tool truck boxes are generally very expensive, leaving the tech with a big long term payment plan. They can express their individuality with whatever they want their work space to look like. The work spaces are usually a collection of disorganized stuff that more often than not look like a junk shop. I'm not trying to be mean, that's just how it is and how the customer often sees it.

2) The NEW School Model - This is where every tech is provided with a toolbox and other work space accoutrements like an integrated bench, overheads, bulk storage, cart garages, etc. The dealership sets the look and feel of the shop, not the techs. The tech no longer has to shell out megabucks for a tool box and those that own them already have to find a place to store, sell, or bring home their box. From the customers perspective, the shops look professional, neat, and very orderly.

The dealerships don't make money on new car sales because of the competitive nature. They make their money on parts, service, and probably on used cars. The manufacturers no longer want a service shop to have the look and feel of a bygone era, they want the service departments to not only be a center of service excellence but to also look the part.

We have installed 100's of integrated work stations and have seen and heard it all. Some of the transformations have been remarkable and at the end of the day, it's all about building a business that makes the customers feel good about spending their money. The techs also like the fact that they can keep more of their paycheck each week rather than handing it over to the tool truck guy.

And to answer you cart question ... Very often the integrated work space will include a service cart that has a nice locking garage cabinet to keep it secure while not in use.

Just like politics, there are good and bad points to this debate but the reality is that all of the dealerships are either changing to or contemplating a change to the NEW School Model. It is not going away any time soon.
 

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2ndGearRubber

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Let's break this down into two different service department models.

1) The OLD School Model - This is where every tech gets to decide what their entire work space looks like; their own box, bench, whatever.... The Tech, who busts his **** for a paycheck not only has to buy their own tools but also has to buy a toolbox. The tool truck boxes are generally very expensive, leaving the tech with a big long term payment plan. They can express their individuality with whatever they want their work space to look like. The work spaces are usually a collection of disorganized stuff that more often than not look like a junk shop. I'm not trying to be mean, that's just how it is and how the customer often sees it.

2) The NEW School Model - This is where every tech is provided with a toolbox and other work space accoutrements like an integrated bench, overheads, bulk storage, cart garages, etc. The dealership sets the look and feel of the shop, not the techs. The tech no longer has to shell out megabucks for a tool box and those that own them already have to find a place to store, sell, or bring home their box. From the customers perspective, the shops look professional, neat, and very orderly.

The dealerships don't make money on new car sales because of the competitive nature. They make their money on parts, service, and probably on used cars. The manufacturers no longer want a service shop to have the look and feel of a bygone era, they want the service departments to not only be a center of service excellence but to also look the part.

We have installed 100's of integrated work stations and have seen and heard it all. Some of the transformations have been remarkable and at the end of the day, it's all about building a business that makes the customers feel good about spending their money. The techs also like the fact that they can keep more of their paycheck each week rather than handing it over to the tool truck guy.

And to answer you cart question ... Very often the integrated work space will include a service cart that has a nice locking garage cabinet to keep it secure while not in use.

Just like politics, there are good and bad points to this debate but the reality is that all of the dealerships are either changing to or contemplating a change to the NEW School Model. It is not going away any time soon.



In fairness, all of the setups shown as "messy" in this thread, are cracker-jack set-ups.



I can understand wanting the shop to look a certain way. It's totally fine for someone to furnish me a box. My issue stands where one has already dropped serious money out of pocket (several thousand at least), and is now being told to shove that investment where the sun-don't-shine, to make way for some matching cabinets. Odds are, the techs are going to loose money on that deal.

Honestly, I feel this plays on my larger frustration with "customer image" in shops (nice coffee stands, chairs, tvs), when floors are uneven, lifts aren't properly maintained, presses/vices are cheap, etc. Although I doubt dealers have problems like that to deal with.



The 100% truth is, the customer shouldn't be entering the shop in the first place. 9/10 times, they don't know what they're looking at anyways; if they did, it wouldn't be on my lift.. And I have zero interest in explaining how COP ignition works to some mouth-breather while I could be doing something else. Ah, a rant for another day.


EDIT: Maybe I'm just old-school, but white leather boat shoes don't belong in a shop; if you know what I mean.

And how does the "New" model handle growing techs? Everybody just scoots down a bay when someone needs more box?
 
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LXCam

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I gotta say I'd have a hard time working in a flat rate shop where I'm limited to the amount of tools I'd need to make a buck. Granted all that looks bitching but minimal for someone who's been at it for a long time. My 10'6" 29 drawer set up is perfect for all my hand tools, but I'd need double that for my collection if it came done to working for someone.
 

Motorhead Extraordinaire

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Chelmsford, MA
In fairness, all of the setups shown as "messy" in this thread, are cracker-jack set-ups.



I can understand wanting the shop to look a certain way. It's totally fine for someone to furnish me a box. My issue stands where one has already dropped serious money out of pocket (several thousand at least), and is now being told to shove that investment where the sun-don't-shine, to make way for some matching cabinets. Odds are, the techs are going to loose money on that deal.

Honestly, I feel this plays on my larger frustration with "customer image" in shops (nice coffee stands, chairs, tvs), when floors are uneven, lifts aren't properly maintained, presses/vices are cheap, etc. Although I doubt dealers have problems like that to deal with.



The 100% truth is, the customer shouldn't be entering the shop in the first place. 9/10 times, they don't know what they're looking at anyways; if they did, it wouldn't be on my lift.. And I have zero interest in explaining how COP ignition works to some mouth-breather while I could be doing something else. Ah, a rant for another day.


EDIT: Maybe I'm just old-school, but white leather boat shoes don't belong in a shop; if you know what I mean.

And how does the "New" model handle growing techs? Everybody just scoots down a bay when someone needs more box?

Like I said this is all good and bad depending on how one looks at it. The "Cracker Jack" setups are in real shops. I've seen some great shops but I have also seen my share of really nasty junk shop service areas.

Yes, I agree the shop is no place for a customer but these days the dealerships are selling their service as much as cars so they do show off their entire facility including "This is where your car will be serviced".

I can surely sympathize with the guy that just laid out big bucks for his toolbox and is told to take it home. On the flip side of that is the guy who really can't afford his new "keeping up with the Jone's toolbox".

The boxes we have been installing are usually very big and generally will hold all of the tools a tech needs. But then again there are techs who have to own every tool possible who will always need more room no matter what the toolbox setup is like.

It's all a balance but the trend is on for a more uniform integrated service department.
 

Heavy Metal Doctor

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May 26, 2010
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Mason Dixon Line
Honestly, I feel this plays on my larger frustration with "customer image" in shops (nice coffee stands, chairs, tvs), when floors are uneven, lifts aren't properly maintained, presses/vices are cheap, etc. Although I doubt dealers have problems like that to deal with.


Reminds me of related saying we in my shop use sometimes when upper management makes a fuss over appearance issues: "It's better to LOOK good, than BE GOOD"....
 

Strouty

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Mar 21, 2010
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Southern Maine
I look at shop mandated workstations as similar to uniforms, I think it is very acceptable and as long as they provide enough storage space it should be fine. The mechanic can either take his box home or sell it. It isn't like the company is saying we want you to pay for the new storage solution. If the mechanic sells the box, it is like getting a raise. I know it would take some getting used to, but in the long run it would be better for everyone.
 
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