How do I setup a trolly for a hoist?

[BD1]

'' How would the side loading work since I'd have to have the hoist over to the side and then need to 'swing' the tire onto the rack''

If the unistrut is set so the hoist misses the chains I think you can do it. Raise the tire parallel with the rack and rotate when you clear the bottom support. To could do a test run if you have a chainfall.
A Genie lift is handy too if you can find a used one. The forks can be reversed for additional height.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Those of you using Uni-Strut and it's "clones" - any idea what the weight rating is on that stuff? I don't need to lift more than say 500lbs, but I was just curious if anyone had any numbers..

 

[dw1]

Those of you using Uni-Strut and it's "clones" - any idea what the weight rating is on that stuff? I don't need to lift more than say 500lbs, but I was just curious if anyone had any numbers..

The trolleys listed in a post above (P2950) are rated for 600 pounds:
http://www.eberliron.com/1371/P2950Unistrut4WheelTrolley/category/1056.html

I actually have 4 of these trolleys and a 20' piece of 1 5/8" strut, still need to get a hoist and do my installation.

 

[greasyfingers01]

Here are some specs for the 1 5/8" unistrut

 

[Rockcam]

This is the bracket I used to hang unistrut from the rafters. Obviously pic is upside down.

This setup allows you to mount the bracket on sloped surfaces - not sure if that could work for your application.

[/URL]

 

[Spta97]

This is the bracket I used to hang unistrut from the rafters. Obviously pic is upside down.

This setup allows you to mount the bracket on sloped surfaces - not sure if that could work for your application.

[/URL]

Steve - Thank you. I was looking at your garage thread again and saw what you were talking about and how you mounted.

This would work, however I was unable to find the bolt and part that attaches to the rafter - only the part that clamps around the unistrut.

Did you buy this as one piece or are they separate part numbers?

In an effort to minimize costs, I bought the trolleys from McMaster Carr ($55.70 shipped as opposed to $80 for the Unistrut trolleys on Amazon). I'm in NY and they ship from NJ so I get stuff in one day from them (which rocks).

McMaster has a mounting bracket like you have but I don't see the rest of the part:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#strut-channel-systems/=123bwmq

I looked at the Unistrut catalog and do not see them either (though I was looking on my iPhone). Is there a specific name for the entire assembly? Do you recall the cost and where you purchased?

These brackets alone will add another ~$50 then I have the part that mounts to the joist.

Not to be cheap, but the tire rack cost $80 which was a bargain, but then another $100 in mounting hardware (my studs up in that section are not 16" OC), then the hoist, then the unistrut, trolleys, etc...it's going to turn into a $500 effort. If I had a setup like you I would not mind, but the 2x a year I will use this is now pretty pricey per use

However, if this is the best solution I will go with these brackets. In the end freeing up the space of 4 - 32" tires stacked in my shed will be worth it I suppose. I just wonder if I'm better off mounting on ceiling peak and nudging the tires past the lower support on the way up.

 

[BD1]

My buddy's setup is used daily lifting and rolling a KNOWN weight of 400 to 500 pounds on the 3 and 1/4'' deep strut supported at six feet spacings without a problem. It's been in use for over a year . Since he needs to PUSH the weighted hoist laterally we added 3/8 '' bolts THROUGH the strut ABOVE roller height as a safety to prevent the strut from spreading and possible roller exposure. The strut is braced perpendicularly too because of the lateral pushing.

 

[BD1]

'' This would work, however I was unable to find the bolt and part that attaches to the rafter - only the part that clamps around the unistrut.''

As for the bolt , ALL THREAD rod and nuts and washer can be used. Drill hole and through bolt. As for the rafter hardware steel, would a basic angle clip work ? http://images2.mcmaster.com/mvA/contents/gfx/small/33125t11p1-h02d-abbr.png?ver=1360766588

You could used ALL THREAD ROD from the angle clip on rafter to the unistrut bracket. If you use the 3 1/4'' deep strut, for your weight load, get the slotted stuff and use 1/2'' all thread for hanging. Drop rod through strut and use a unistrut nut inside and a standard nut and washer on top.
http://images1.mcmaster.com/mvA/contents/gfx/large/3580t11p3-h03-digitall.png?ver=1441362137

 

[rlitman]

Here are some specs for the 1 5/8" unistrut

Thanks! Yes, that seems about right, though I'd add a couple of warnings.

Anyway, my own engineering when I chose unistrut was more off the cuff. I took a 10' piece and laid in on the floor at Home Depot. I put a pair of steel spacer blocks under each end (to get each end up about 1" off the floor) and stood in the middle. It did not touch the floor. I then stepped off of it, and checked with some more spacers to see if it had any permanent sag set in. It did not, so I bought the piece. My largest lifts would be several times my weight, BUT not at a 10' span. In my case, it is connected to the rafters 16" OC.

My heaviest loads:
Two bags of ice melt at a time - 100lbs
Snowblower - 270lbs
80 gallon compressor - 500lbs, though I lifted it in three smaller pieces
Miller welder/generator - 575lbs
Everything else I lift is lighter.

I eschewed mounting brackets. I cut wedges that matched the angle of my rafters. I glued one up where one end of the track was going, and then bolted up one end of the track (holes were drilled in the wedges, to allow lag screws to go through them into the rafters). I then leveled the track, and used brad nails to hold up the wedge at the other end, and bolted that end in place. With the track level, I then put wedges above the track under every rafter it passed, and bolted them all in.

As for the warnings.

1) Those ratings are for a UNIFORM load, not a point load like a trolley! This is a critically important distinction. However, the trolleys themselves have load ratings, and trolleys are available at up to 600lbs, so I would say that 600lbs is a reasonable upper limit to expect

2) It is VERY important to prevent either twisting or spreading of the track. This requires that you have it on fixed supports that prevent twisting, and that your trolley only pulls straight down (pulling at an angle will put the load on only one lip, and can create spreading forces).

3) You need to keep your track very level. If it's off level, the trolley will slide downhill.

 

[Spta97]

'' This would work, however I was unable to find the bolt and part that attaches to the rafter - only the part that clamps around the unistrut.''

As for the bolt , ALL THREAD rod and nuts and washer can be used. Drill hole and through bolt. As for the rafter hardware steel, would a basic angle clip work ? http://images2.mcmaster.com/mvA/contents/gfx/small/33125t11p1-h02d-abbr.png?ver=1360766588

You could used ALL THREAD ROD from the angle clip on rafter to the unistrut bracket. If you use the 3 1/4'' deep strut, for your weight load, get the slotted stuff and use 1/2'' all thread for hanging. Drop rod through strut and use a unistrut nut inside and a standard nut and washer on top.
http://images1.mcmaster.com/mvA/contents/gfx/large/3580t11p3-h03-digitall.png?ver=1441362137

It's hard to tell from the pic of the angle clip, but it appears you are saying to have that bolted to the rafter, then use the threaded rod down to the "clip" that holds the unistrut?

That could work, but the other part Rockcam posted attaches in two places to the rafter so I suspect it would be more stable.

I'm having a hard time finding that complete bracket though. Depending on the cost I may have to go with the option you pointed out. The threaded rod will also help to adjust for level.

 

[BD1]

If you can't locate those brackets this maybe a option. Use a four hole angle clip for the joist. This would have two holes for vertical through bolting which would help with lateral movement . Then use the hole closest to the joist for the threaded rod. I'm showing 3/8 all thread rod in photo. There is a nut and washer above unistrut and a UNISTRUT NUT inside.

 

[Rockcam]

I get it about the cost - makes no sense to spend $500 to get access to your tire rack.

Others have suggested a barn door track - some of them have 1000 pound plus capacities and may be worth a look if you can figure out a way to mount them. That system is less expensive - did not work for my application, but maybe it would for yours?

 

[Spta97]

If you can't locate those brackets this maybe a option. Use a four hole angle clip for the joist. This would have two holes for vertical through bolting which would help with lateral movement . Then use the hole closest to the joist for the threaded rod. I'm showing 3/8 all thread rod in photo. There is a nut and washer above unistrut and a UNISTRUT NUT inside.

Thanks for the idea and pic! Will the unistrut nut allow the trolley to clear in the regular 1 5/8" stuff I got or only the deep one?

Also, is that the nut that is curved? I'm wondering what makes it different.

Finally, is 3/8" rod strong enough or should I use 1/2"?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Spta97]

I get it about the cost - makes no sense to spend $500 to get access to your tire rack.

Others have suggested a barn door track - some of them have 1000 pound plus capacities and may be worth a look if you can figure out a way to mount them. That system is less expensive - did not work for my application, but maybe it would for yours?

Well I've got parts for the unistrut already - in for a penny in for a pound.


Do you know the part number for the hangers you have?

I saw the update about moving the snowblower into the loft - cool stuff!

Oh, and don't wear flip flops when working in the garage

 

[Spta97]

I got the trolleys tonight. The have no clearance for bolts in the channel (even constrution screws) so looks like I'll have to do a mounting bracket after all.

 

[BD1]

'' Will the unistrut nut allow the trolley to clear in the regular 1 5/8" stuff I got or only the deep one? ''
NO, there is not enough room for the rollers to pass.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BGtD3FLcL.jpg

''is that the nut that is curved? I'm wondering what makes it different. ''

Yes, the unistrut nut has a curve or radius to it. This allows the nut to rotate in the unistrut UNTIL the RADIUS part LOCKS IN or wedges itself on the sides of the unistrut. This means no hold back to prevent the nut from turning while it is being tightened.

 

[Spta97]

'' Will the unistrut nut allow the trolley to clear in the regular 1 5/8" stuff I got or only the deep one? ''
NO, there is not enough room for the rollers to pass.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BGtD3FLcL.jpg

''is that the nut that is curved? I'm wondering what makes it different. ''

Yes, the unistrut nut has a curve or radius to it. This allows the nut to rotate in the unistrut UNTIL the RADIUS part LOCKS IN or wedges itself on the sides of the unistrut. This means no hold back to prevent the nut from turning while it is being tightened.

Hopefully Rockcam can give the part number for those brakets.

I've got 8 rafters so hopefully I can keep the hardware under $100. I think I'll pick up the 880 lbs HF hoist. Only $20 more and good for future growth.

I did notice they have duty cycles like a paper shredder (2 min on, 8 min off). Hopefully this is more of a guideline. Though it will likely take me that long to get the tire set and the next one setup.

 

[Rockcam]

Here is a reprint from the Unistrut catalog. Go to Unistrut.com, click on United States, then look for literature link hear the top of the page:



It shows the brackets I bolted to the beam and new collar ties, the small pivoting bracket that attaches, and the pivoting nut that allows hanging threaded rod. It sounds like you have the trolleys figured out, but let me know if you need help there too.

I bought some parts from McMaster Carr as you did, but the others were actually bought on eBay.

Let me know if I can answer additional questions.

 

[Rockcam]

On the hoist, I ended up with the 1300 pound version - not that I will ever lift anything close to that. Those things are almost constantly on sale, and they may allow you to use the 20% off coupon as well.

On the unistrut swivel nut, even though you don't plan on swiveling it enough to put your tires into the rack, allowing things to swivel is important to prevent bending when (not if) you end up lifting slightly off center.

 

[BD1]

Spta97, Where you located ???

 

[Spta97]

Here is a reprint from the Unistrut catalog. Go to Unistrut.com, click on United States, then look for literature link hear the top of the page:



It shows the brackets I bolted to the beam and new collar ties, the small pivoting bracket that attaches, and the pivoting nut that allows hanging threaded rod. It sounds like you have the trolleys figured out, but let me know if you need help there too.

I bought some parts from McMaster Carr as you did, but the others were actually bought on eBay.

Let me know if I can answer additional questions.

Perfect - thanks!

 

[Spta97]

On the hoist, I ended up with the 1300 pound version - not that I will ever lift anything close to that. Those things are almost constantly on sale, and they may allow you to use the 20% off coupon as well.

On the unistrut swivel nut, even though you don't plan on swiveling it enough to put your tires into the rack, allowing things to swivel is important to prevent bending when (not if) you end up lifting slightly off center.

I'm on my way to get it now. They have the 880 lb for $129 and I hope I can use my coupon. I'll check to see if they have more heavy duty ones but 880 souls be more than I ever need.

 

[Spta97]

Spta97, Where you located ???

Long island, ny

 

[lakeroadster]

The best solution I can think of is to nail 2x6 supports going from rafter to rafter. Then, screw / lag a 2x10 underneath them off center so I clear the lower support beam.

I would then attach the unistrut to the 2x10.

The problem with this approach is it is a lot more effort and materials than originally planned. Also, the unistrut would only be attached by 1.5" of wood rather than the entire 2x6. Or do I even need the 2x10 and can I lag it to the new supports?

Where are you located? To answer your question you would need to assume a full snow load and then know the live load, dead load and maximum load to be lifted with the hoist.

 

[Spta97]

I had some luck at lowes. I wasn't able to find rectangular angle iron so I looked at the unistrut. I mistakenly grabbed up the 12 ga shallow channel and it will fit between the hoist mounting bracket when doubled up with just enough space for the 1/4" trolley (it will need some coaxing with a rubber mallet.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to make the mounting bracket with the materials.

I'll still need to order the hangers though but hopefully next weekend I can get it all delivered.

 

[Spta97]

Where are you located? To answer your question you would need to assume a full snow load and then know the live load, dead load and maximum load to be lifted with the hoist.

I know the roof can support several guys standing on it at once.

Not worried so much about snow load because winter tires go on before it snows and don't come off until after it won't snow anymore (the only thing I'll use it for).

I do plan to install support braces just to be safe.

 

[lakeroadster]

Where are you located? To answer your question you would need to assume a full snow load and then know the live load, dead load and maximum load to be lifted with the hoist.

I know the roof can support several guys standing on it at once.

... They have the 880 lb for $129 and I hope I can use my coupon.

Two pairs of guys that weigh 220 lbs each, standing in the same spot you'll attach the beam to the rafters, in addition to the snow load, dead load, live load and the weight of your new structure and the the hoist itself?

Keep in mind that you're hoist set-up won't be uniformly loading the roof structure (the way it is designed for loading), you are point loading the rafters at the attachment point.

The type of attachment used at the existing old rafters, and spreading the load across multiple rafters, is critical and should be an engineered system, designed per local codes, with additional safety factors.

Even though you may not use the full rated capacity of the hoist, the structure should be designed to handle the full capacity. If you need that much capacity, use a steel structure that attaches to the floor.

 

[Spta97]

'' This would work, however I was unable to find the bolt and part that attaches to the rafter - only the part that clamps around the unistrut.''

As for the bolt , ALL THREAD rod and nuts and washer can be used. Drill hole and through bolt. As for the rafter hardware steel, would a basic angle clip work ? http://images2.mcmaster.com/mvA/contents/gfx/small/33125t11p1-h02d-abbr.png?ver=1360766588

You could used ALL THREAD ROD from the angle clip on rafter to the unistrut bracket. If you use the 3 1/4'' deep strut, for your weight load, get the slotted stuff and use 1/2'' all thread for hanging. Drop rod through strut and use a unistrut nut inside and a standard nut and washer on top.
http://images1.mcmaster.com/mvA/contents/gfx/large/3580t11p3-h03-digitall.png?ver=1441362137

Here's an update. Thanks to everyone for the help as I wouldn't have been able to get this far without it!

Trolley
I got some 1/2" grade 8 bolts, washers, and lock nuts and attached the two pieces of the 1400 series (13/16" tall) unistrut to the trolleys and then to the brackets and hoist. I originally wanted the flat part of the strut to sandwich the the trolleys but I had to flip it around because I couldn't get a socket in the track. (Photobucket is down tonight but the pics should appear when it is back up).

The bolts that hold the brackets to the hoist don't seem very beefy in comparison but I haven't heard any complaints so hopefully they will be ok. If not, I can see if I can find grade 8 or 5 in that size but I'm assuming they are metric.







Track
I am going to use the trolley hangers and a threaded 1/2" rod to a right angle bracket bolted to the joist support as suggested by BD1. I can't seem to find the rounded nuts for sale in a reasonable quantity so if anyone knows where to buy them without buying 100 let me know. The McMaster Carr hangers are tall enough to fit the strut and a bolt:

Hanger

Bracket

Ceiling
Just the trolley setup and the hoist is pretty heavy so I feel I should do some strengthening of the joists. My plan is to sister 2x6s to the existing joists, then, put a support 2x6 between them. The existing two upper 2x4 supports are nailed to the faces of the joists so I will follow this method rather than the nailing plates I saw in Rockcam's setup. The right angle brackets will be bolted to the new supports allowing me to mount off center from the peak and clear the lower support beam.

The only issue is that in order to get the hoist high enough, I will have to have the supports higher than the existing 2x4 supports. Not ideal, but there will be 8 - 2x6s instead of two 2x4s.

All this to lift tires - lol.

Anyone have any input on this plan? I've seen other hoist support systems using 2" iron pipe but I don't think that is the best option but I'm open to ideas. I figure I will have to buy a lot of 2x6"s for the sistering but I am leaning towards that would be a good idea. I definitely want to do support braces between the joists - since I will be close to the peak a few 12' 2x6s should cover it.

Thanks!

 

[Rockcam]

Looks great!

A couple of comments - first, I ended up drilling a small hole in the hoist bracket, then running a self drilling screw into the trolley tubing (in your case Unistrut). That keeps the trolley assembly from sliding through the brackets. This may or may not be an issue with yours.

I felt the same way about mt collar ties, so I bolted in 2x6's to take the vertical load. Your plan to beef things up is good, and dimensional lumber is cheap.

 

[Spta97]

Thanks Rockcam. The two unistrut pieces and the trolleys were about 1/16" - 1/8" too wide for the hoist brackets so the bolts had to coax it all together. In other words, it's in there pretty good

I'll pick up the 2x6s this weekend. The sistering will require a lot of lumber so I'll save that as a second step after I put the braces in to see if I need it.

 

[rlitman]

The bolts that hold the brackets to the hoist don't seem very beefy in comparison but I haven't heard any complaints so hopefully they will be ok. If not, I can see if I can find grade 8 or 5 in that size but I'm assuming they are metric.

They are metric. They're grade 10.9 IIRC (which is basically equivalent to grade 8). But the bigger concern would be the flat head socket cap screws that hold the red frame to the motor (especially where they thread into the aluminum gear case). I believe that is the weak link in the HF design.

Anyway, your trolley setup looks to be about as good as you're going to get with the HF hoist. I really like the positioning of the trolleys. They should share the load about as well as you can get (I've seen similar setups with closer trolley spacing, and with too much motor overhang, the motor lift up on the spool side trolley when there's no load). It should be perfect for dual line lifting.

Your biggest concern will be keeping the cable under tension. If you let a cable get slack, it will want to birds nest on the spool.

 

[matt_i]

A good thing for peace of mind is to blue-Loctite the fasteners which hold the U-straps to the hoist body. You don't want those coming loose under use for a number of reasons.

 

[Spta97]

They are metric. They're grade 10.9 IIRC (which is basically equivalent to grade 8). But the bigger concern would be the flat head socket cap screws that hold the red frame to the motor (especially where they thread into the aluminum gear case). I believe that is the weak link in the HF design.

Anyway, your trolley setup looks to be about as good as you're going to get with the HF hoist. I really like the positioning of the trolleys. They should share the load about as well as you can get (I've seen similar setups with closer trolley spacing, and with too much motor overhang, the motor lift up on the spool side trolley when there's no load). It should be perfect for dual line lifting.

Your biggest concern will be keeping the cable under tension. If you let a cable get slack, it will want to birds nest on the spool.

Thanks. I was modeling Rockcam's setup so he deserves the credit.

I'm a bit paranoid about the HF quality so I was thinking of running a braided cable or two around the trolley and hoist. Not so much when I'm lifting as the garage will be clear, but the other 363 days a year when it is just hanging out above my nice weather car.

Good tip on the tension. I should be able to have the tire setup with an axel strap and bring the hook low enough to just get it on the d-rings.

 

[Spta97]

A good thing for peace of mind is to blue-Loctite the fasteners which hold the U-straps to the hoist body. You don't want those coming loose under use for a number of reasons.

Great idea Matt! Not sure why I didn't think of that as I used it for the tubes on the tire rack.

My next challenge is how to get the hoist and track up. Since the track will run the full 10' width of the garage I either have to put the hoist on the track and install it or put the track with trolley up then bolt the hoist to the trolley while up in the air.

No big deal at normal height, not fun when up 15' in the air

 

[rlitman]

Great idea Matt! Not sure why I didn't think of that as I used it for the tubes on the tire rack.

My next challenge is how to get the hoist and track up. Since the track will run the full 10' width of the garage I either have to put the hoist on the track and install it or put the track with trolley up then bolt the hoist to the trolley while up in the air.

No big deal at normal height, not fun when up 15' in the air

Why not cut the track short at one end with enough room to slide the trolley off? Then install something that acts as a stop when the trolley is on.

 

[Spta97]

Why not cut the track short at one end with enough room to slide the trolley off? Then install something that acts as a stop when the trolley is on.

That is an option, but since I spent so much I figured I would get my money's worth and install shelving on the opposite wall for bulky Xmas items. Not heavy but awkward to carry up a ladder.

 

[rlitman]

You do realize how awkward it will be to lift that track with the hoist attached, or get the hoist on and off the trolley? What's your plan if the hoist ever gives you trouble?

Here's a thought, use two pieces of track with a joint. They make a special trolley hanger that's wide enough to keep both ends of the track together. When you want to install the trolley, remove this one hanger and pivot both tracks to open up the gap.

In any case, you don't need the hoist line on top of the shelving, just in front of it. Losing 16" or so at one end (especially if that's the side the spool is on, so the wire goes all the way up to the end of the track) may not be a problem for you.

 

[Rockcam]

Why not cut the track short at one end with enough room to slide the trolley off? Then install something that acts as a stop when the trolley is on.

I agree.

I spread mine away from the wall 18" or so so I could slide the hoist/trolley assembly on and off if needed.

For the ends, I used a unistrut nut and bolt that grabs the open side, plus a 90 degree piece used as a stop so the whole things doesn't just roll off at the wrong time.

 

[Spta97]

Yea in further thought it seems that is my best bet. I'll need 19" off the wall to get it in (18" trolley). This bypasses two joists and leaves me in the middle of one.

What are your thoughts on having the last 6" or so unsupported? I'm curious how strong the unistrut is.

For the shelf on the other side I probably can just carry stuff up the ladder but it will be nice to lift awkward items with the hoist. I can probably get them high enough with the hoist and shift them over myself on the ladder (can't do that safely with the tires).

Tonight I priced out the hardware and it came to $130. I'm gonna call McMaster Carr tomorrow to see what the shipping will cost before I order.

I do plan to put stops on either end. I got the square washers, spring nuts and 1/2" bolts. The right angle would work as well (probably better).

All in I think this will be close to $500. But if it works out it will be priceless to gain the room back in my shed and not have to drag the rims/tires across the yard to the driveway.

 

[rlitman]

The unistrut will be fine with an unsupported end. BUT when the trolley is under it, all the load will be pulling on the last hanger, instead of being distributed among at least two rafters. I'd suggest toe nailing a 2x4 between the last two rafters and supporting the track at the end if you want to use it to the end.