Professional tools for shadetree mechanics

[zendriver]

The problem with professional quality tools is that it takes extensive professional training to use them safely. Buy your tools at Harbor Freight, and you can safely and effectively use them with just a few suggestions from the clerk as you check out, or a quick cruise through an internet forum.

Most non-professionals don't want to take the time to get professional training on using a wrench, ratchet, or breaker bar, so they just buy Craftsman or HF or whatever Autozone is selling.

I got screwed.

My SO man, did not show show me how to operate, that 3/8 ratchet, I spent so much hard earned money on - in 1976.

And silly me, never thought to quiz the HF girl (the one with a pierced lip and 35 tattoos ) for the skinny on impact sockets.

I just keep missing out.

 

[d.mcfarland]

You need to be able to pay for the capital you sink in your tools. Either by earning money or by saving money by doing work.

Bingo. But the exception I would make is that if someone has a hobby collecting, restoring, etc. then tools aren't tools at that point. They are objects.

 

[BK13]

I got screwed.

And silly me, never thought to quiz the HF girl (the one with a pierced lip and 35 tattoos ) for the skinny on impact sockets.

I just keep missing out.

I'm not sure I want the tatted, pierced chick to be my source of knowledge on, um. 'impact sockets'....

 

[Cato]

I think most tools today are "professional grade."

There are guys who are professional mechanics who get by just fine with Harbor Freight or Husky Home Depot.

The only tools which are good for a couple uses are the stuff you might find at an auto parts store or the cheap aisle at Sears under the label Sheffield. The Indian tools I see at my car dealer's parts department in a big tub mixed in with air fresheners are good for only a few uses, too.

Even the cheap stuff works pretty well for most guys.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Cato, I love my Titan wrench set from India. It is SAE and I think have turned two or three bolts with the set in 5 years- but it seems top notch. It was $10-15 at AZ.

Parts houses have some pretty nice stuff, if you can block out some of the not nice stuff.


ssdave, I used to question that saying as well. Maybe it is universally known to us humans to put our hand on the top of a circular item and use it for reference....like steering a car, hand on top of wheel, to turn right you move your hand right.

Maybe it is innate like a fish swims.

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

Most of them hit craigs list or e-bay and get their high end tools for damn good prices and guess what? They still are covered under the warranties.

This depends on the company. Snap-On's official warranty policy is that the warranty is only valid for the original purchaser. There are lots of reports of people trying to warranty several tools at one through them online and them asking for a proof of purchase. It seems to be up the dealer as to if he wants to enforce this or not.

 

[jrcampbe]

I buy high-end tools used for way less than new. If you're patient you can get the truck brands for not much more (sometimes less) than new consumer-grade tools.

Jim

 

[anndel]

I have mixture of Snap On, Craftsman, Mac, Matco, Knipex, Tekton, Sunex, Crescent, Channellock, Carlyle, etc. I used to be a mechanic in 1985-1990. I still buy some SOs but mostly used from GJ Classified or Ebay. Some I've bought new from SO Online. For my emergency kits I have Harbor Freight locking pliers, ratchet/sockets, screwdrivers and pliers. I don't wrench 100% or for money, just my family's cars and trucks but except for a few, I do love USA Made Quality and the fit and finish of Snap On tools.

 

[PureLeaf]

I would drive a peterbilt around town if I had one

This.

 

[Cato]

Cato, I love my Titan wrench set from India. It is SAE and I think have turned two or three bolts with the set in 5 years- but it seems top notch. It was $10-15 at AZ.

True, even the Indian stuff is still serviceable.

I remember 25 years ago I bought Taiwanese wrench for changing tires on my bicycle. The metal was so soft it quickly bent. But today, Taiwan is putting out excellent tools on par with many of the top brands.

 

[Parabellum]

Proto, Armstrong, Wilde, Wright is all you need!

 

[davethorik]

I buy high-end tools used for way less than new. If you're patient you can get the truck brands for not much more (sometimes less) than new consumer-grade tools.

Jim

Ditto, I've only ever paid full price for 1 ratchet that I own, a Proto 5250XL (off topic, but totally worth it). I seem to have good luck finding deals, mostly ebay, but yard sales, etc as well.

If I'm gonna buy a truck brand tool, if the tool has a cheaper equivalent, I'll buy that. Some examples here would be the Williams ratcheting screwdriver, or Armstrong 3/8 locking flex ratchet.

Sometimes a few minutes spent looking can yield a large dollar savings.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Here is the 1945 Snap On breaker bar I'm afraid to use for lack of training, should I go get the coupon one?

 

[mjoekingz28]

This.

I 'heard' you only need a CDL when there is a trailer on the fifth wheel. Bobtailing around is apparently considered non-commercial and is like a personal vehicle, according to my source.



So, just brush up on unsynchronized transmissions, or heck, todays there are automatics and who know what else?

 

[mjoekingz28]

Ole Slewfoot,

Seemingly you will achieve professional status and the cashier will print you an ASE diploma if you can hand over $14.99 + tax.

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

I 'heard' you only need a CDL when there is a trailer on the fifth wheel. Bobtailing around is apparently considered non-commercial and is like a personal vehicle, according to my source.



So, just brush up on unsynchronized transmissions, or heck, todays there are automatics and who know what else?

Depends on the state. If your vehicle has air brakes you need a CDL in most states. It also depends on your GVWR in my states.

 

[pi_guy]

First day's lesson:

Rightey tighty

Lefty loosey

Not always....

 

[woody 73]

Very interesting post this is my take...

My wife gets upset when I buy a tool for example an expensive hammer (or any tool inset tool here_____),and her argument goes something like this; instead of paying $26.00 for one hammer, pick up a HF hammer for $2.99 and if it breaks go back and buy another one after all it could fail 8 times before you match your original price of $26.00 dollars.

Now don't get me wrong she has a good point, just looking at the problem from a different perspective. If it makes you happy buy the best you can afford, if you go into debt over something and it makes you very unhappy then don't do it.

 

[PJNJ]

Very interesting post this is my take...

My wife gets upset when I buy a tool for example an expensive hammer (or any tool inset tool here_____),and her argument goes something like this; instead of paying $26.00 for one hammer, pick up a HF hammer for $2.99 and if it breaks go back and buy another one after all it could fail 8 times before you match your original price of $26.00 dollars.

Now don't get me wrong she has a good point, just looking at the problem from a different perspective. If it makes you happy buy the best you can afford, if you go into debt over something and it makes you very unhappy then don't do it.

That's an interesting point of view. And it does have validity. However, my wife has the opposite point of view. She tells me to get the best that I can afford (and sometimes to just get the best period). She believes that a better tool allows the job to go easier and it won't break as easily (slowing things down and possibly injuring me). She came to this idea as she loves to cook and spends a lot of time in the kitchen. Over the years she has found (for her) that better knives, mixers, etc. make it easier to get things prepared and makes it more enjoyable for her (and me - as I get to eat the fruits of her labor.)

 

[ssdave]

Here is the 1945 Snap On breaker bar I'm afraid to use for lack of training, should I go get the coupon one?

The way I read that ad, you're getting a professional tool for the $14.95. So, if you converse with the cashier at HF about the use of the tool, you will be adequately trained. However, since it is a professional tool, not the run of the mill everyday homeowner one, the training will suffice for entry level use of the Snap on tool. That looks like a cost effective way to get up to speed on the skills needed for the truck brand tool.

So, maybe HF has a niche for the professional: Buy a less expensive PROFESSIONAL tool from HF, get the pass through the checkstand training/lessons, and be good to go using truck brand tools.

 

[Fedwrench]

Excluding PROTO PROFESSIONAL TOOLS, I've always found that brands that have to tell you it's a professional tool or use the word professional in marketing, aren't selling a professional quality tool but, that's just me.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Very interesting post this is my take...

My wife gets upset when I buy a tool for example an expensive hammer (or any tool inset tool here_____),and her argument goes something like this; instead of paying $26.00 for one hammer, pick up a HF hammer for $2.99 and if it breaks go back and buy another one after all it could fail 8 times before you match your original price of $26.00 dollars.

Now don't get me wrong she has a good point, just looking at the problem from a different perspective. If it makes you happy buy the best you can afford, if you go into debt over something and it makes you very unhappy then don't do it.

She might change her tune after getting hit by a few stray hammer heads that flew off the handle.

 

[derosa]

Is that from the perspective of the clock hands at 12:00 or 6:00? Or some other position? If the hands are at 12:00, right would be clockwise would be tightening. If at 6:00, it would be counterclockwise. Which is correct?

I'm having a hard time comprehending what you mean.

That's cause you're apparently screwing around with clocks instead of figuring out how to use a wrench. Is this what they mean by needing tool truck training? I swear I quizzed every clock in my house and none of them seemed very wise, counter or more, nor even willing to do anything more then flash the next number at me. Must be they're not old enough.
But haven't had any problem teaching a number of young kids righty tightly. Usually cause I'm looking down at the nut or bolt and think if it turn the top of it to the left it should loosen just fine.

 

[drink]

Excluding PROTO PROFESSIONAL TOOLS, I've always found that brands that have to tell you it's a professional tool or use the word professional in marketing, aren't selling a professional quality tool but, that's just me.

So, are you saying Proto is the only brand of tools on the market that are worthy of being in your tool box? What about Armstrong, or Snap-On? Are Proto tools better than them?

 

[blown94conv]

I have more "professional tools" then most professionals.

 

[Fedwrench]

So, are you saying Proto is the only brand of tools on the market that are worthy of being in your tool box? What about Armstrong, or Snap-On? Are Proto tools better than them?

No I'm saying the Proto is the only brand where they actually stamp the word professional on the tool.

I consider Armstrong an industrial brand but, not a professional auto mechanics brand but, that's just me, even though I own some.

What I meant by my post is that professional quality tools don't use the word professional often. It's a given that a snap on, Mac, Cornwell, fill in the blank brand is a professional tool. It's also my opinion the many tools claim to be professional but, fall short.

 

[drink]

No I'm saying the Proto is the only brand where they actually stamp the word professional on the tool.

I consider Armstrong an industrial brand but, not a professional auto mechanics brand but, that's just me, even though I own some.

What I meant by my post is that professional quality tools don't use the word professional often. It's a given that a snap on, Mac, Cornwell, fill in the blank brand is a professional tool. It's also my opinion the many tools claim to be professional but, fall short.

I don't know a lot about Snap-On but it is my understanding they specialize in the automotive market. Armstrong's specs clearly state their tools are made out of high alloy steel, and so far I cannot find any of the other brands to have the same material. Like you I own Armstrong tools but I also own several other brands like Snap-On, Proto, Craftsman, Craftsman Industrial, Allen, Stanley, etc.

Sears has announced they are closing more Sears and Kmart stores. A few people have mentioned how their level of confidence in Sears remaining open has caused them to buy tools elsewhere. As you know Armstrong has had the reorganization problems along with the SC warehouse flooding. Armstrong has also had another warehouse in Houston, Texas to flood also. The last I heard Armstrong's production line is back up and running but current shipping dates are planned to begin towards the end of June 2016 (I wouldn't etch it in stone but just hope for the best).

Being able to find a brand of quality USA tools with rock solid service available to individuals seems to be the thing to do nowadays. There are a lot of offshore tools on the market in big box stores and I have yet to find out just how good they are. Some people could care less about where they are made as long as they can get good tools cheap.

 

[bcradio]

I have more "professional tools" then most professionals.

good for you

 

[drink]

Something to consider when buying high quality tools is warranty service. Some brands do not offer much warranty service at all other than exchanging a brand new defective tool under materials and workmanship. I have heard people say the warranty is not worth the paper it is written on. Then I have watched some brands be sold with what sounded like a wonderful warranty only to have the warranty changed after they switched owners. Nothing like buying into a product that is full of broken promises huh?

Another thing I am bothered with is trying to buy a nice set of the same brand of tools and having the mfg drop the line and begin substituting the tools with a different brand. Finding a rock solid line that will be here today and not gone tomorrow is something I think all of us need to find.

 

[sberry]

If I could have SO tools, for the same price as HF, I'd go with SO.

But I can't.

You will get a lot more tools, for a lot less money going with imports, but you will have some quality and some ego issues, to deal with.

Buy the best you can afford, or at least what you feel like spending. They all seem to get the job done.

This is solid advice. When I started there were not the choices there are today. Most cheap tools today are as good or better than the Cman I expanded to in 1980 or so. At the time it was 10% the cost of the truck, the math is even better today and the tool is as good or better China or not.
This is a different issue than how people feel about it but we have now seen tools be beat for a couple decades and hold up well. Stuff I might not have considered at the beginning worked its way in, pretty soon forgot it was cheap.

 

[sberry]

My wife gets upset when I buy a tool for example an expensive hammer (or any tool inset tool here_____),and her argument goes something like this; instead of paying $26.00 for one hammer, pick up a HF hammer for $2.99 and if it breaks go back and buy another one after all it could fail 8 times before you match your original price of $26.00 dollars.

The HF hammer is too cheap. They make one can be found at fleas and is even branded in some cases for more but in a white box about 7$. Its probably 12 or 15$ in a Lowes and a clone of the real deal.
Same for a Klein number 9, 33$ at Ace, maybe 25 or so at a HD and a clone is about 12 and a guy couldn't tell the difference. The cutting edge was not so good on the flea mod3els at 8$ but have got better in the last few years.
When I talk about cheap tools it isn't always about the cheapest but it has to be usable. Anything priced less than Walmart or HF is probably junk. Some of the stuff from them is super good considering the cost and can often be had off the same shelf in a plain model.
Hand crank can openers are worth a look, one of the brand ones and the house brand are identical except for a package and logo on a grip, one 2$ and one 7 that come thru the same stamping plant.

 

[crewchief888]

This is solid advice. When I started there were not the choices there are today. Most cheap tools today are as good or better than the Cman I expanded to in 1980 or so. At the time it was 10% the cost of the truck, the math is even better today and the tool is as good or better China or not.
This is a different issue than how people feel about it but we have now seen tools be beat for a couple decades and hold up well. Stuff I might not have considered at the beginning worked its way in, pretty soon forgot it was cheap.

agree'd,
theres so many more choices than there used to be "back in the day", and the quality and availability of less expensive tools has gotten better for the most part.

 

[DemoFly]

If you aren't doing work that requires tools, I don't know why you need them.

That said, I've never understood why some people say, "they are good for the homeowner but you'd never want to use them professionally."

What makes a tool okay for a homeowner? Is a rounded fastener okay if you're a homeowner? No...

I got caught up in "pro-sumerism" but a couple youtube channels of mechanics I really respect gave me some perspective. Eric O. of SouthMainAutoRepair uses whatever tools he can get. He uses Chinese stuff all the time. The other channel is something like Fordtechmakuloco or something and that guy used an old Craftsman Raised panel set of wrenches and sockets professionally on PowerStroke Diesels for like 4 years. Even on those cramped engines he did fine with the 36 tooth raised panel ratchet.

Food for thought.

 

[Schurkey]

From a certain perspective, it would be better for boneheads to have the very best tools, while experienced techs could "get by" with cheap **** due to them having developed "mechanic's feel" for fastener torque; what a "rubbery" bolt feels like, and knowing that having full engagement of the tool with the fastener is always best. Screwdrivers aren't chisels, etc.

OTOH, the bonehead is likely to abuse the tool out of ignorance. It'd be a shame if the tool broke or slipped or otherwise allowed a situation where damage (human or otherwise) occurred because a "soft" wrench spread open, a socket split, or whatever.






At the end of the day, crappy tools are crappy tools. Good tools get the job done--if the wrench is guided by an experienced body. We can invent all sorts of scenarios where some tool is paired to some body, and some thing happens as a result.

I can say this: I have never, ever, bought a tool and then five years later pissed and moaned that it cost too much, I should have bought a cheaper tool. Been plenty of times I've done the opposite, though--thought I could "get by" with a cheapie, and then lived long enough to regret that decision.

 

[zendriver]

I'm not sure I want the tatted, pierced chick to be my source of knowledge on, um. 'impact sockets'....

Kind of like the old days, where we went to the shoe store, the smelly guy working there, put our foot on the metal magic measuring device, to get the proper shoe size. Then he went into the back room and got the shoes.

Now days we just go and try on shoes ourselves, until we find some we feel fit good. Somehow we figured it out on our own.

Unless it's some piece of advanced diagnostic equipment, I guess I figured no one really needed advice or training on tools and their usage, from the SO tool man, or any other tool attendant, for that matter.

Maybe some need it.

 

[BK13]

Kind of like the old days, where we went to the shoe store, the smelly guy working there, put our foot on the metal magic measuring device, to get the proper shoe size. Then he went into the back room and got the shoes.

Now days we just go and try on shoes ourselves, until we find some we feel fit good. Somehow we figured it out on our own.

Unless it's some piece of advanced diagnostic equipment, I guess I figured no one really needed advice or training on tools and their usage, from the SO tool man, or any other tool attendant, for that matter.

Maybe some need it.

It's unfortunate that there isn't a font to let people know when I'm being a smartass...

 

[ssdave]

It's unfortunate that there isn't a font to let people know when I'm being a smartass...

And, of course it started with me stating something ridiculous.....

I had just spent a bunch of time looking at garage doors. You can buy good doors at home depot and such, but not good spring systems. They'll include cheap extension springs and cables, but not torsion springs, pulleys, brackets, etc. When you go to manufacturers websites, they state that extension springs can be installed by homeowners with a moderate amount of skill and extreme amount of careful preparation. They go on to say that torsion springs cannot be installed except by professionals, using specialty tools, and having extensive training.

Really? When do two 18" steel rods and a pair of visegrips count as "specialty tools"? And the special training consists of how to pull on one rod, turn the wheel a 1/4 turn, and insert another rod into the next hole, relax the wheel back till the rod holds it, and repeat the sequence again. Count to 7 or 8 or similar number, check the door, and when it balances, tighten the set screw. Wow!

Thus my comment that professional tools can't be used until you get professional training. Dry attempt at humor, and some people took it seriously.

 

[Roberts210]

I always buy the best tools I can. If I can't afford a new one, I'll buy a clean looking used one on ebay.

 

[geartow]

Tight is tight, Too tight is broken.

 

[Ricky112]

I can safely tell you my tool box, nor any of the mechanics I've worked with, have 100% snap on everything. We'd probably be broke if we did

Buy quality where its needed.