The VISES of Garage Journal

[CRSINMICH]

Drives: Take a look at this Sawyer vise on CL near Buffalo, NY. It sure has some similarities to the combo vise you posted. I just happened to run across it right after I read your post.

https://rochester.craigslist.org/tls/5554609443.html

 

[scooternut]

My first Parker off CL late this evening, a 954 1/2 for $45, seemed like a great deal though no real time to look it over good.


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[scooternut]

Drives,
I have that very vise, though mine is slightly different.

As i recall from research, likely made by Oswego, but the patent may be " smiths machine vise." Not sure on the smiths, that's just what came to mind. Also, mine has a missing chunk at the front of the fixed base, the dynamic support. Wow how did that happen



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[va.grouseman]

Originally posted by Drivesitfar.

I did see an interesting combo vise that has a company name I wasn't aware of. anybody know this vise company or is it just cast at one of the big vise companies? it certainly looks like a Parker 88 and a Morgan 88 doesn't it?
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Drive, Scooternut posted one of those Oil Wells on page 1077, back in October of 2014.---It's not as nice as the one you've posted, but it's only the second one I've seen.---I like RARE.

 

[econotrk]

My first Parker off CL late this evening, a 954 1/2 for $45, seemed like a great deal though no real time to look it over good.


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I thought that was a great price compared to what we normally see around these parts, was hoping it would show up on here. Nice get.

 

[G-ManBart]

My first Parker off CL late this evening, a 954 1/2 for $45, seemed like a great deal though no real time to look it over good.


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That's a steal at $45!

 

[CRSINMICH]

Drives,
I have that very vise, though mine is slightly different.

As i recall from research, likely made by Oswego, but the patent may be " smiths machine vise." Not sure on the smiths, that's just what came to mind. Also, mine has a missing chunk at the front of the fixed base, the dynamic support. Wow how did that happen?

Scooternut: I have an HB Smith vise that looks like yours. That's where the Smith's Patent came from. The one that Drives posted has some differences - mostly the shape of the spindle nob. The jaw pads are also shaped like Parker's. Also, Sawyer Tool Co. had a logo which was an embossed T inside a circle like the one on the dynamic jaw on yours. I'm not sure but I think Sawyer and Oswego got tangled together at some point.

The drawing came from an 1878 Walworth catalog. Be careful with yours if you use it. Those jaw towers are seriously hollow.

 

[scooternut]

That's good info CRS. The hollow jaws apparently to accommodate the most over engineered and stout pipe jaws that I've seen. My vise came with only 1 of them. My vise is Just sitting on the vise shelves at the moment seeing no use.


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[drivesitfar]

ALL: since Parker's 88 and Morgan's 88 are pretty close matches and maybe Oswego's 88 was the first one I wonder who patented that design in the first place? speaking of another nice old combo vise design I took a peek in Viceman's heaven and noticed all the prices for vises are not reasonable like he pays for them.

in fact this Vanderman #0 popped up with 4.25 inch jaws and 45 pounds and I didn't know they made one that small. for an open screw vise these are maybe more durable than my REED or ROCK ISLAND vises are. I think the Vanderman vises were more expensive than other vises when new back in late 1800's and maybe the Rolls Royce of vises back then.

I own a Vanderman #1 that weighs all of 100 pounds and I think they made a #2 that weighs 125 and their #3 weighs 150. BTW i'm going to sell my #1 in case anybody wants to PM or email me about it.

 

[FMC1959]

Originally posted by Drivesitfar.

I did see an interesting combo vise that has a company name I wasn't aware of. anybody know this vise company or is it just cast at one of the big vise companies? it certainly looks like a Parker 88 and a Morgan 88 doesn't it?
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Drive, Scooternut posted one of those Oil Wells on page 1077, back in October of 2014.---It's not as nice as the one you've posted, but it's only the second one I've seen.---I like RARE.

How on earth do you come up with all these search results?

VA, your search capabilities are the best

 

[FMC1959]

Even with the base it's still just two holes anchoring it to the base surely?

Crazy-no. Without the base. And I'd assume 3 with the base on the no4, or 4

Evergreen, I think the point CW was making is that the vise is held on to the base with those same 2 screw holes, regardless of the base screwed into the bench with 3 or 4 screws/bolts.

 

[FMC1959]

Repainted my Massey vise clincher no 30 3in vise. I had painted it pink before and now changed it to white. Also a question the vise is obviously a prentiss copy. Since Massey had bought there molds from what I found doing a little research. but does any one have an idea when they were made?



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Can't help much with the dates, but that paint job falls into the category of......"If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all".

I have nothing to say about the paint job

 

[rusty65]

Can't help much with the dates, but that paint job falls into the category of......"If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all".



I have nothing to say about the paint job

I don't care if my paint job doesn't make you cream in your pants but it protects the metal like its suppose to. The vise is so worn that the jaw pads don't even close square all the way. It's just a small old vise that was someone's beater. The handle I got with the vise was like a 20in piece of all thread that was bent up.

 

[joe.striper]

So I got the 5196 today, $40 and an old Columbian in trade (which I pd $20 for). Very clean. 10/53 stamped on the slide. My first 51×× restoration. Should be fun.

Also bought 2 tool boxes and inside was this itty-bitty c clamp

Oh and here is that beater 7" Prentiss

 

[CrotalusAtrox]

I know you guys joke I live in vise Heaven but really I do.

Here's a lesson for you new guys...I need a garden hose and I'm cheap, so while at the grocery store I always check the posting board. I saw an ad, in town, for lawn stuff. Call the guy and buy a nice garden hose. Guy has a HUGE garage so I ask, and this is important 'Do you have anything else you're selling? I collect vises and stuff'.' So he says yes, opens his garage and i buy this stuff. Cfman 5196 (40 bucks and a replacement vise), this cool wagon jack and a Dunlap tool box.

Also here is a 3" Wilton i just finished. I made the swivel lock handles from SS. I LOVE this color blue

I have bought some cool stuff the same way you bought those items but now the cats out of the bag

 

[Maui]

The Sawyer vises were manufactured for many years in Oswego, NY.

Evergreen, check the underside of that Witon you purchased. There is a hole in the center on the underside of the bottom. If that hole is threaded, then it was meant to go with a swivel base. If it isn't threaded, then it wasn't meant to have a swivel base attached. I have one exactly like yours, and the hole is not threaded.

Maui

 

[Techie1961]

I finished off my new Wilton 2.5" 825 vise and shot some photos. I couldn't find the Verde Green that a lot of you mentioned but in Canada there is a Rosemary colour that I thought I would give a try.

 

[drivesitfar]

Techie: that Wilton is worth at least ONE GOLD MONKEY now. in case you might find and paint bigger vises and not want to use all that nice green tape for the slides some of the guys use newspaper and plastic bags, but your way on that little Wilton did just fine.

WELL DONE SIR

BTW I still love your orange pipe stand you made for your grinder that I barely see in the background.

Maui: are you sure all those little holes in the bottom of wiltons are threaded? I thought some were just pins, but I haven't taken apart nearly as many as some of the guys do.

ALL: aren't all Wilton's swivel bases just a tad different over the years? also I know the big C3 swivel bases used to break a lot so did Wilton beef up that design?

 

[CrotalusAtrox]

I finished off my new Wilton 2.5" 825 vise and shot some photos. I couldn't find the Verde Green that a lot of you mentioned but in Canada there is a Rosemary colour that I thought I would give a try.

Looks great

 

[KMScott]

Does anyone have a Wilton PowRscrew Vise. If so I could use the jaw thickness and height dimensions. I am helping a friend who does not have jaws to copy from. Thanks in advance.

 

[CrotalusAtrox]

Made the deal.
It's not an 800n as described.
The 'other vise' was not bigger than the wilton. It's a newer chinese 'mighty'. It will live outside and do bad things to stuck things.
We don't know what the swivel base is for, so it's for sale to GJ folk.

Traded my redundant ac lincoln tombstone, maybe 10 sticks ran through it, that I gave forty bucks for.

Also bought a 24x24x1.5" welding table for 50 bucks.

From the picture the base on the import looks like it might be for the Wilton, hard to tell

I believe you **** is in order

 

[joe.striper]

I am so impatient. I took the Cfman 5196 apart tonight. WOW am I impressed.. So very well made and very different from anything I've disassembled thus far.

What is especially great is the condition of this vise. I wire wheeled and buffed the spindle handle tonight. Look at the incredible condition of this thing!! Not a nick or mark on the handle and only a small nick on the side of the nose and on the top.

This restoration has the potential to be epic.

 

[jakemac]

If I wasn't so jealous, I be happy for you.

 

[scooternut]

That 5196 is gonna be hot. Nice grab Joe, enjoy the process.

 

[diagnosis]

I finished off my new Wilton 2.5" 825 vise and shot some photos. I couldn't find the Verde Green that a lot of you mentioned but in Canada there is a Rosemary colour that I thought I would give a try.

So that's what Rosemary looks like! I like it Great job!
I don't know why there aren't more colour options in the hammered finishes offered on the shelves of the hardware stores here, I've tried most of them over the past few months, and would love to see some brighter, more colourful shades offered... as would the other refinishers out there.

 

[FMC1959]

I am so impatient. I took the Cfman 5196 apart tonight. WOW am I impressed.. So very well made and very different from anything I've disassembled thus far.

What is especially great is the condition of this vise. I wire wheeled and buffed the spindle handle tonight. Look at the incredible condition of this thing!! Not a nick or mark on the handle and only a small nick on the side of the nose and on the top.

This restoration has the potential to be epic.

Joe, based on what you saw inside and out, who gets your vote on the MFR that OEM'd these for Craftsman? (Columbian?)

 

[mcmlvif100]

May have already been posted and I missed it but Chicago area CL ad for a welding table includes a "an enormous and super heavy duty american vise". Table is 1 3/8 inch thick so scaling suggests the vise jaws might be 6 inch.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tld/5571164791.html

Right now u am listing this HEAVY DUTY 91.5x41 3/4 WELDING TABLE 1 3/8
THICK WITH VISE! The vise included, is an enormous and super
heavy duty american vise.


Not mine and no connection. Saw it while "window shopping" for a welding table. Have to wonder if the seller would separate the vise from the table.

 

[joe.striper]

Joe, based on what you saw inside and out, who gets your vote on the MFR that OEM'd these for Craftsman? (Columbian?)

Funny, i was asking myself the same thing. Beautifully made, but those jaw supports are bad news.

Definitely NOT Columbian. The thing that sticks out is the lash adjuster for the spindle nut. That has Reed written all over it, plus who made the Cfman vises previous to the 519X series? Reed! I'm picking up a Reed 5188 Friday that is nothing but a rebadged Reed 205R. just my humble 'hunch' opinion.

I'll tell you, the only way I'd buy one of these online is if they provided hi res pics of a naked jaw support prior to restoration.

 

[joe.striper]

May have already been posted and I missed it but Chicago area CL ad for a welding table includes a "an enormous and super heavy duty american vise". Table is 1 3/8 inch thick so scaling suggests the vise jaws might be 6 inch.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/tld/5571164791.html

Right now u am listing this HEAVY DUTY 91.5x41 3/4 WELDING TABLE 1 3/8
THICK WITH VISE! The vise included, is an enormous and super
heavy duty american vise.


Not mine and no connection. Saw it while "window shopping" for a welding table. Have to wonder if the seller would separate the vise from the table.

Looks like a 6" Parker. $250 out here...

 

[drivesitfar]

Joe and ALL: don't the jaws look like Rock Island on the Craftsman 519x's? I agree with the vise nut holder it does look like REED too. I wonder if they were maybe made in Japan and Craftsman was able to borrow the best of the vise designs of the day and avoid patent laws? I think Columbian was making the smaller Craftsmans in Japan so the mystery continues.

BTW all the jaw supports I've owned on the 5 519x's have been ok, but I've turned down maybe the same amount that had chunks of the cast behind the removable jaws missing.

nice looking 5196 and you do know how to make metal shine. WELL DONE

Mc: looks like an AWESOME table. the original piece to hold the main screw on the dynamic jaw has been replaced and the jaws are looking pretty rough. if you could buy that big vise without the table make sure you check the screw and the vise nut because with all the damage i'm guessing it's been beaten or dropped.

Duck: maybe not the big Wilton and other vises you were hoping for, but those 6 inch Wilton bullets with the jaws attached from the rear are great to work with and own. if you do have time to shoot a few pictures of your new stand maybe post a few pictures over on the vise stand thread we have over in Fabrication.

 

[econotrk]

WOW am I impressed.. So very well made and very different from anything I've disassembled thus far.

What is especially great is the condition of this vise.

Glad to see you landed a 51xx Joe, can't wait to see what you do with it.

Odd that these are such a well made vise, but they usually seem to see very little/light use.

 

[joe.striper]

Joe and ALL: don't the jaws look like Rock Island on the Craftsman 519x's? I agree with the vise nut holder it does look like REED too. I wonder if they were maybe made in Japan and Craftsman was able to borrow the best of the vise designs of the day and avoid patent laws? I think Columbian was making the smaller Craftsmans in Japan so the mystery continues.

BTW all the jaw supports I've owned on the 5 519x's have been ok, but I've turned down maybe the same amount that had chunks of the cast behind the removable jaws missing.
.

Drivesit, NO WAY it could be Japanese with a slide date of 1953. 8 years after WW2? We didnt see heavy metal out of Japan until the early 60s and the first products were poorly cast and poorly made, I've worked on a lot of the early stuff. Again, the to me the 2 big factors in saying they are made by Reed are the lash adjuster and the fact that their previous line of top quality vises were made by Reed.

Im surprised weve never been able to nail it down, especially considering the great minds on this board.

 

[drivesitfar]

Joe & ALL: I had a Craftsman 519x (can't recall which version at the moment) that was even earlier at 1948 so the mystery and a new thread on the subject might flush out the maker. the jaws are more Rock Island than Reed and Rock Island also made vises for Craftsman in the late 20's and early 30's. Also Balane had a Rock Island vise next to one with the same size jaw and they weighed the same.

I've even been told Starrett made them and the handle looks like a Starrett. with the adjuster holding the vise nut more of a precision part than a pin it goes a step further than what Reed made so another piece of the puzzle.

if a thread doesn't get started by the member that was putting together a bunch of information to start one a few months ago then I might start it over in Vintage and see if we can maybe come up with an answer.

I think I picked up a Craftsman wood vise in it's original box that had a 519x # on it and also MADE IN JAPAN and i'll have to find it to post. I just saw it a couple weeks ago and not sure exactly where it is now.

one thing I do agree with you and everybody is that a Craftsman 519x series vise is one of the nicest and best looking vises you can use or buy. if they made a version with pipe jaws they might have rivaled the C series vises of Reed and Wilton.

 

[jreb10]

Drivesit, NO WAY it could be Japanese with a slide date of 1953. 8 years after WW2? We didnt see heavy metal out of Japan until the early 60s and the first products were poorly cast and poorly made, I've worked on a lot of the early stuff. Again, the to me the 2 big factors in saying they are made by Reed are the lash adjuster and the fact that their previous line of top quality vises were made by Reed.

Im surprised weve never been able to nail it down, especially considering the great minds on this board.

I think there are two avenues of investigation that may produce an answer.

1. Look for a commonality in the cast-in part numbers. For example, here is the part number on the vise nut of my 5198 (5V7816S):



Is there a vise manufacturer who used a similar alphanumeric scheme for their part numbers? If as a group we can look at Reed/Columbian/Rock Island/Starrett vises from the late '40s through the late '50s and find one with similar numbers, that would be a big clue. This assumes the part numbers are from the manufacturer and not Craftsman specified.


2. Take a detailed look at the jaw serrations. Whose jaws do they most resemble? I doubt anyone created a new serration process. Most likely Craftsman specified a serrated jaw and left the details to the manufacturer who would have used their standard process. Is there a serration expert in the house?

BTW, my money is on Rock Island.

 

[jreb10]

Now on a whole different topic, I finally got some decent painting weather and was able to finish the "rescue" of an abused Baby Bullet and Pow-R-Arm. Too badly abused to sell, so I'm keeping this one.





This one had the "untapered" end. I looked over dozens of photos of other baby bullets to determine if that end could be original. Since it was held in by 3 roll pins instead of two pins I concluded it was not original, and tapered the end myself. Paint is Rustoleum Universal Oil Rubbed Bronze.

 

[CRSINMICH]

519X I was going to hold off posting this until the restoration of a 05191 was complete but since it has come up again here it is: When I disassembled it I noticed two things that seemed like they could be helpful in identifying the maker. The first was the spindle nut. It's exactly like the one that Jreb just posted except the part number is W 5V7814S. Apparently the final number before the last letter corresponds to jaw size. The 05191 has 4 inch jaws. The second thing that I noticed was that the stop collar on the spindle was tapped to accept the acme thread on the spindle. It also has a set screw. I don't have a lot of experience with rehabbing vises but I haven't seen a stop collar like that before. I agree with Joe - I was impressed with the vise when I got into it. It seems better engineered than it needed to be.

 

[CRSINMICH]

Now on a whole different topic, I finally got some decent painting weather and was able to finish the "rescue" of an abused Baby Bullet and Pow-R-Arm. Too badly abused to sell, so I'm keeping this one.

This one had the "untapered" end. I looked over dozens of photos of other baby bullets to determine if that end could be original. Since it was held in by 3 roll pins instead of two pins I concluded it was not original, and tapered the end myself. Paint is Rustoleum Universal Oil Rubbed Bronze.

That Baby really was abused. You did a nice job with it though. That Oil Rubbed Bronze looks great. I'll have to give that a try.

 

[drivesitfar]

Jreb and CRS: great ideas and worthy of putting back in a thread if WE get one started. I just started a thread in Garage Gallery for ORGANIZING and i'm buried just trying to GET ORGANIZED so if somebody else want's to start the 519x thread i'd say PLEASE DO. one of the members who's handle is not on the tip of my tongue must have got busy because a few months ago he was gathering a lot of information to start the thread. if he doesn't poke his head in and somebody else wants to start one i'll support ya.

as far as the uniqueness of the 519x's the combination of looks and several vise companies is obvious. CRS found that sleeve that is holding the main screw in the dynamic is threaded and it threw me the first time I took my 5196 apart. I almost gave up and stuck an ice pick tool I have in the hole I took the holding screw out of and damned if it didn't start turning and loosening up.

also another really nice feature is the split in the vise nut. does anybody know of any other vises with that feature on the vise nut? the hub is not on any other vise I've ever seen and like I say the handle's ends look like Starrett or maybe Morgan. then there is the oil hole that looks like Reed along with the vise nut holder that is even nicer than a REED's is.

so REED already had a good business, Columbian was already making the less expensive Craftsman vises, Starrett seemed to be maybe selling tools more than vises but this vise has a ton of COOL FEATURES. then there is Rock Island who ended up selling their business to Birtman Electronics in 1957 and it eventually quit making vises. Rock Islands might have been and maybe still are the best vises made and i'm guessing quality products had even a tougher market in the BIG DEPRESSION. so when Wilton gets Uncle Sam's business for WWII vises maybe Rock Island went to SEARS. didn't we all grow up with a Sears catalog somewhere in the house? SEARS was the 50's AMAZON and maybe Rock Island just needed a market to sell it's vises. also maybe the owners were getting older or passing the business on to young bloods that maybe wanted a change.

like JREB my money is on ROCK ISLAND because of the quality and the jaws. maybe sears had the patent rights for the vise nut holder since Reed was one of it's suppliers and maybe some of the other features were because of Sears.

whatever the answer is I know this Craftsman 519x series vise ROCKS. speaking of 519x'x we haven't heard from BigCaddy for ages and now Oldie has taken a little vacation. maybe one of those two can start the thread about the vises I KNOW THEY DEARLY LOVE.

if I ever see a 5198 that I can afford to buy i'll name it OLDIE and if I find 2 I bet OLDIE will get a PM.

cheers all and have a great day

JREB: WELL DONE on the BABY

 

[econotrk]

I think there are two avenues of investigation that may produce an answer.

1. Look for a commonality in the cast-in part numbers. For example, here is the part number on the vise nut of my 5198 (5V7816S):



Is there a vise manufacturer who used a similar alphanumeric scheme for their part numbers? If as a group we can look at Reed/Columbian/Rock Island/Starrett vises from the late '40s through the late '50s and find one with similar numbers, that would be a big clue. This assumes the part numbers are from the manufacturer and not Craftsman specified.


2. Take a detailed look at the jaw serrations. Whose jaws do they most resemble? I doubt anyone created a new serration process. Most likely Craftsman specified a serrated jaw and left the details to the manufacturer who would have used their standard process. Is there a serration expert in the house?

BTW, my money is on Rock Island.

Jreb, I'm in the same camp as you thinking the details will tell the story. There has to a defining manufacturing clue that can be compared to the process one of the vise makers used. I took lots of photos of my 5198 while apart to hopefully help with this line of attack. But it will take someone with a broader experience than myself. Things like the style of numbers used in the cast pieces, the way the 7 and the 1 are shaped for example. Also the underside of the dynamic jaw has a particular look to the way the machining was done, same with the slide. The process used should be the same as what the originating company used on their own vises. Here's a couple of pics to hopefully help this along.

 

[fullthrottle24]

Ok, get ready, get set, go!

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/5580827389.html