Garage service from main disconnect?

[wotan]

My electrical service comes out of the ground, into the meter and then into the master disconnect before it heads into the house for the main breaker.

Currently I have a single overhead 25amp circuit that runs to the detached garage from the master breaker. I'm looking to upgrade this to a 100amp sub-panel.

I'll be replacing the overhead wiring by trenching in upgraded wiring to the garage and wondering if I can connect a sub-panel directly to the main disconnect. I don't have easy access to add a 100amp breaker to the main circuit panel inside of the house. Is it OK to bypass the main circuit breaker?

 

[pattenp]

How is the current 25A circuit to the detached garage hooked to the master disconnect? A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[wotan]

How is the current 25A circuit to the detached garage hooked to the master disconnect? A picture is worth a thousand words.

It's fed from the main circuit breaker panel not the master disconnect.

 

[pattenp]

You said master disconnect, main breaker, then master breaker. Kinda hard to know which you are talking about. So I assume the master disconnect after the meter is just a one breaker slot and there is no space to add a second disconnect switch/breaker.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Please take some pics of everything including the panel with the covers on and off.

 

[wotan]

Haha -- point taken! I'll take photos and update. Sorry!

 

[wotan]

Photos.... This is what I've been calling the disconnect. My thought is I can put in another set of 100amp or even 200amp breakers (if I'm running wires now, I might as well plan for a Tesla charging station, right?!) and run those to a subpanel in the garage through a different knockout?

edit: No idea why the images ended up sideways!! Sorry!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So the feed from the meter comes into the panel and the 100a feeder goes to the house subpanel?

Looks like theres 6 more spaces in that panel for addl breakers

I dont see a 25a feeder in the pic. Does that currently go to the house panel?

 

[wotan]

So the feed from the meter comes into the panel and the 100a feeder goes to the house subpanel?

Looks like theres 6 more spaces in that panel for addl breakers

I dont see a 25a feeder in the pic. Does that currently go to the house panel?

Yes. From the meter into the disconnect box and then the 100a feeder (or is 200a??) goes from this box to the main circuit breaker panel in the house.

I checked the main breaker panel in the house and the garage is currently on a 20a breaker from there.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Since the breaker is 100a then u have a 100a service.

If the SE wire, meter, panel and drop are rated for 200a then u could step up to 200a.

What is the gauge of the wire?

 

[Cmreschke]

Looks like to me from the picture, your missing a lot of grounding. And your grounding conductor of the 4 conductor cables doesn't look terminated. The line side probably doesn't need to be but the load side sure does.

 

[Cmreschke]

Plus looks like no ground wire for rods or water pipe.

 

[pattenp]

You can add another breaker in the main disconnect box to serve the detached garage. But as said, you have some definite grounding issues that need to be fixed.

 

[wotan]

My main circuit breaker panel is grounded to the water pipes.

There isn't anything metal near this disconnect box.

I'll be hiring an electrician to handle the connections (and address grounding?) but was planning on trenching and burying wire at either end myself. Can I plan on running mobile home feeder wire into this box?

What direct-bury wire makes the most sense for my application? It's a modest 35' x 20' shop that shouldn't exceed 60a (but I do plan on leaving some headroom for electric vehicle charging.)

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Looks like to me from the picture, your missing a lot of grounding. And your grounding conductor of the 4 conductor cables doesn't look terminated. The line side probably doesn't need to be but the load side sure does.

I noticed the bare AL EGCs (taped on certain parts) laying in the bottom but forgot to mention it. Yes the EGC in the feeder for the house needs to be terminated on the neutral bar.

Plus looks like no ground wire for rods or water pipe.

Good catch.

My main circuit breaker panel is grounded to the water pipes.

There isn't anything metal near this disconnect box.

I'll be hiring an electrician to handle the connections (and address grounding?) but was planning on trenching and burying wire at either end myself. Can I plan on running mobile home feeder wire into this box?

What direct-bury wire makes the most sense for my application? It's a modest 35' x 20' shop that shouldn't exceed 60a (but I do plan on leaving some headroom for electric vehicle charging.)

The water line is suppose to be grounded within 5' of where it enters the house. And it needs to be bonded at the main service panel, which is the panel u have pictured NOT the subpanel inside your house.

Another potential issue i forsee- is the neutral bar in your house subpanel bonded or isolated? If youre not sure take some pics of that panel with the cover on and off!

There also needs to be 2 grounding electrodes connected to this panel. That stuff is easy and u could probably do it yourself.

For the garage feeder yes u could use #2 AL MHF. U can direct bury it but it needs to be in conduit above ground and inside buildings. I recommend using conduit for the entire run. 2" PVC will make the pull easy but u can get by with 1.5"...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP any updates?

 

[wotan]

Sorry for falling off -- I get easily distracted and have been working on other aspects of my build. Here's a photos of the house breaker panel.....

 

[wotan]

Anyone want to weigh in? Looking for help on what I need to do to remedy my grounding issues and ready to trench wire from main-disconnect panel to garage this weekend. Happy to provide more info and/or pics if needed.

 

[Aceman]

Can you take a pic from a ways back with the panel cover open/off? Right side up would be preferred so I can see how the service wiring comes in and how the feeder to the house panel goes out? An overall shot of the entire side of the house. Right now your panel is wired like **** and it's a GE to boot, so you're O for 2. If we clean the panel up at least that'll bring you to 1 for 2.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sorry for falling off -- I get easily distracted and have been working on other aspects of my build. Here's a photos of the house breaker panel.....

u didnt post any pics

 

[wotan]

For some reason this forum never posts imgur links correctly. Let's try photobucket....

Here's the service side of the house. It's a duplex so the upper unit has its own meter:

The meter is grounded. The grounding cable wraps around the corner of the house and is connected to the water pipe.

Inside of main breaker panel:


Inside of house breaker:

 

[Aceman]

Are you a tenant or the owner of the building?

I see several potential issues.

1. In the panel next to the meter I can see an isolated neutral bar, meaning it's a bar on plastic standoffs with no electrical continuity to the panel it's in. Is there a green screw or some sort of wire jumper installed in that bar connecting it to the panel in any way?

2. It seems they used 4 wire cable(3 insulated and 1 bare) between the meter and panel which isn't necessary. Nothing wrong with it, just odd. More importantly though, 4 wire cable IS required between the main breaker panel and the panel in the home. But, it appears they didn't connect the bare ground wire to the neutral bar in the main panel. That needs to be corrected.

3. The neutral wire in the main panel next to the meter lands on a lug with a large fender washer. That is wrong. I don't use GE but I'm willing to bet the lug below this one is installed correctly with a factory GE lug. The lug needs to be changed.

 

[Norcal]

Are you a tenant or the owner of the building?

I see several potential issues.

1. In the panel next to the meter I can see an isolated neutral bar, meaning it's a bar on plastic standoffs with no electrical continuity to the panel it's in. Is there a green screw or some sort of wire jumper installed in that bar connecting it to the panel in any way?

2. It seems they used 4 wire cable(3 insulated and 1 bare) between the meter and panel which isn't necessary. Nothing wrong with it, just odd. More importantly though, 4 wire cable IS required between the main breaker panel and the panel in the home. But, it appears they didn't connect the bare ground wire to the neutral bar in the main panel. That needs to be corrected.

3. The neutral wire in the main panel next to the meter lands on a lug with a large fender washer. That is wrong. I don't use GE but I'm willing to bet the lug below this one is installed correctly with a factory GE lug. The lug needs to be changed.

Agreed, the lug w/ the fender washer is site cobbled, the lug in the middle lug is IMO a GE OEM lug, the problem is that big box stores do not carry much in the way of load center accessories & the OP may have problems finding the desired lug.

 

[wotan]

Are you a tenant or the owner of the building?

Owner. The house was built in 1910 so has obviously received some cobbling together over the years. I've never touched this box. Thank you for your help.

There is no other wire connecting that neutral bar to anything. Am I right in my thinking that I can fix current issues if I replace the fender-washer top lug with a correct GE one, and then add 2 additional lugs on that neutral bar for the un-terminated wires in the upper left corner?

Assuming that gets me "fixed" -- what are my next steps to add a 240v subpanel in my garage? Is this call an electrician time or can I DIY this?

OK for me to bury mobile home feeder to this main box and an install a subpanel in the garage?

 

[Aceman]

You need to correct all 3 issues I mentioned before even worrying about your garage. #1 and #2 are serious safety issues. #3 is just wrong and needs to be fixed before it comes a problem.

I would recommend calling a licensed qualified electrician. Not a handyman. Someone who could give the rest of the duplex a good looking over.

The electrician may find other issues not shown that also need to be corrected. Based on the few photos you posted I'm guessing these aren't the only issues your duplex has.