Securing a bender from spinning in place when in use

[jdwilson44]

I'm looking for some ideas.

I've picking a couple of tubing benders (a Diacro #2 and a Baileigh tubing bender) to use in some projects I've got planned.

My problem is - I need to figure out some way to secure them so that they don't spin in place when I'm trying to bend with them. They're both sitting on stands - and when I try to bend heavier materials they will just spin the stands in place.

I knew this would be a problem that I'd have to come with a solution to - I'm just debating what the "best" way to fix the problem would be.

Before suggesting : " just bolt them to the floor" - I've got two reasons why I can't do that: 1) my floor has radiant heating pipes in it and I don't want to risk drilling into one of them , and 2) I want the ability to move the benders around if need be. My shop is not the biggest and I will have to move machinery around on occasion to make the best use of the space.

I've had a couple of ideas on how to solve the problem. One was to make a REALLY heavy base with a rubber pad on the bottom that would just be so heavy that the weight along with the rubber base would "stick" the floor enough that bender would not rotate it. The other one was to have "sockets" along the wall - where I could stick a pipe or a piece of tubing into it and then run the tubing out at floor level to lock into the base of the bender somehow so that it would be locked in and not rotate.

Looking for any other suggestions from anybody who might have had a similar problem.

Thanks!!!

 

[JJThrasher]

Bolt it to some heavy OSB. Then you stand on the OSB while bending. Your arms push one way on the bender and your legs push the opposite way on the OSB and the whole thing should stay roughly in place.

 

[Mr_fixit]

add hydraulics?

 

[royce]

A few thoughts;

To make a base that is heavy enough not to move when bending is a chore to move and store.

A radiant heat gun can pinpoint exactly where your heat lines are, and are easily missed when drilling anchors.

A single 4 bolt stantion is light and compact,so it is easy move and store.

Flush concrete anchors can be set at multiple locations.

Hope I helped
Royce

 

[OCD]

 

[jdwilson44]

add hydraulics?

Thought about that one - but it starts getting involved and expensive and I'm bending smaller stuff that I can easily do with arm power. I have a Pro-Tools large tubing bender I bought for doing rollcage work and the hydraulics definitely solve the spinning issue - but whatever solution I end up with has to work for multiple benders (I've got two already and will probably add another) - so the hydraulics solution starts adding up quickly.

 

[bczygan]

Install mounting points in the driveway.

 

[jdwilson44]

A few thoughts;

To make a base that is heavy enough not to move when bending is a chore to move and store.

A radiant heat gun can pinpoint exactly where your heat lines are, and are easily missed when drilling anchors.

A single 4 bolt stantion is light and compact,so it is easy move and store.

Flush concrete anchors can be set at multiple locations.

Hope I helped
Royce

That does help, it's a suggestion I'll have to mull over a bit. Right now the radiant floor is not functional - so I'd have to fill the tubing up with hot water or something like that - but that is doable.

I was sort of hoping for a nice clean floor - but I guess if I have to add some flush anchors something like this:

It wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[jdwilson44]

Install mounting points in the driveway.

Gravel driveway. And it's New England. Bending tubes in 10 degree weather in the middle of a snowbank isn't my idea of fun.

 

[tlmartin84]

Got a hitch on a vehicle?

Make a mount to insert into a hitch.

 

[tlmartin84]

I guess that kind of goes with the weather comment...............

 

[tlmartin84]

Do you have foundation walls? Something you could mount to on a vertical plane? and then 90* it up.

 

[MoonRise]

As mentioned (and shown in the picture above), mount the 'tool' to a base sheet that you stand on (or as the picture shows, park a vehicle tire on it ).

With the tool mounted to the base sheet and you standing on the base sheet, the reaction forces from you pushing or pulling on the tool are all 'contained' between you, the tool, and the base sheet.

Make the base sheet big enough that you can stand on it and still be 'levering' the tool handle comfortably. BTDT.

A 4x8x3/4 sheet of outdoor rated CDX plywood and a few pieces of 2x6 or 2x8 underneath as a 'frame', all glued and screwed together, and then the tool's base plate lag screwed through the ply and into 2x underneath (make sure there is the 2x lumber underneath the tool's base plate mounting holes so that the lag screws have something to actually screw into ). Done.

 

[Tim C]

Got a hitch on a vehicle?

Make a mount to insert into a hitch.

That's what I did. 1/4" wall 2" x2" square tube about ten feet long. I bolt it to my bender stand and slide it into the hitch on my truck.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[sailah]

I flipped my tubing bender to bend vertical. Added a air/hydraulic ram. Mine is on casters, rolls out of the way. Mine is a JD2 model 3. Was fairly cheap to implement and the hydraulics makes bending and drinking beers easy.

I don't have a pic of mine but this is basically exactly what I did

 

[rlitman]

Bolt it to some heavy OSB. Then you stand on the OSB while bending. Your arms push one way on the bender and your legs push the opposite way on the OSB and the whole thing should stay roughly in place.

The usual answer for a manual tire changer (which has the same issues) is to bolt it to a pallet and stand on the pallet.

 

[tlmartin84]

View media item 58934
That's why I built one...........

 

[scrumpy]

Doesn't have to be a whole sheet. Just a second arm for your foot to brace on or your other arm if it only takes one arm to do the bend. Maybe a three legged mount that folds down to one with the pull of a pin. Stable and portable.

On the hydraulics idea, you only use one at a time from the sounds of it. Move the piston from one to the other using pins. Or one pump and multiple pistons but use quick connects. You have one setup now so just add pistons and connectors.

 

[jdwilson44]

I guess that kind of goes with the weather comment...............

Yeah - I don't want the solution to be dependent on having a vehicle around or have to do it outside. Having to do it outside really restricts my ability to get something done if it's rainy, snowy, dark and late, cold - etc.

 

[jdwilson44]

Do you have foundation walls? Something you could mount to on a vertical plane? and then 90* it up.

I do have foundation walls. One idea I was thinking of was to mount something along the foundation wall - right along the floor or slightly above the floor - so that I could just run a tube or something like that from the foundation wall over to the bender stand - and use that to "lock" the bender from wanting to spin in place when I apply force to it.

 

[jdwilson44]

The usual answer for a manual tire changer (which has the same issues) is to bolt it to a pallet and stand on the pallet.

Does that usually work ok? I was thinking one solution might be to find some sort of base that weighs in at 200-300 pounds , put a rubber pad on the bottom of it - and use that. For two of the smaller benders I have it would work - because they're light enough for me to lift them up on their stands and move them.

But I'm contemplating getting a Diacro #4 bender too, and they weigh in around 350 pounds when they're on the stand - so I'm not sure that solution would work for everything.

 

[BD1]

If you mount the bender to a small table , what about using a deadman going from table top to ceiling ? Maybe like this using a pipe on the screw going to the ceiling.

 

[BD1]

Ridgid has this on their tripod, see around 1:18

 

[jdwilson44]

Maybe a couple of pics would help to give a better idea of the benders I'm referring to.

Here's the bender I just picked up that definitely needs something to keep it from wanting to spin when it's being used (it's a Diacro #2)

I also picked up one of these - and it definitely needs to be held down before trying to bend anything with it:

 

[jdwilson44]

Ridgid has this on their tripod, see around 1:18

Hmm - that's an idea, I hadn't thought of: tying into the ceiling somehow.

The problem is that the bender sort of needs 360 degree access (see the pic in the post above).

 

[BD1]

Looks like you have a piece of equipment on 4x4 lumber in the background. Maybe mount the benders on the same size lumber on one end and leave long to slide under the existing piece of equipment. That may have enough weight to hold it.

 

[dwp99]

That does help, it's a suggestion I'll have to mull over a bit. Right now the radiant floor is not functional - so I'd have to fill the tubing up with hot water or something like that - but that is doable.

I was sort of hoping for a nice clean floor - but I guess if I have to add some flush anchors something like this:

It wouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm running into a similar problem. Although I don't have radiant heating in the floor.

I have multiple items I want to attach to the floor. Only they have to be able to be taken down after I use them. My garage is actually used as a garage when I'm not using it as my shop.

What I came up with is a piece of 3/4" plate that I will bolt to the floor that has all the bolt patterns drilled and tapped into it. I will use similar anchors with countersunk 1/2" -13 bolts.

All I'll have to do is bolt down what I want to use and when finished unbolt it. The 3/4" plate will stay bolted to the floor

First photo shows the base plate with holes spaced for a small table and the countersunk 1/2" holes at the outer edge.

Second photo shows a larger Bender bolted to the base plate

Third photo shows table assembled, painted and the 3/4" base ready to get bolted to the cement.

The reason I wanted to have a 3/4" plate to bolt the table and bender to is that when bending , hammering, pulling or pushing, the concrete anchors might start to come loose. I also thought, if you are constantly removing and installing a table or bender by use of the concrete anchors they might begin to get sloppy in the concrete. So if I had a plate that I could attach them to I would eliminate taking them loose from the anchors. I can keep the anchors torques down, the base plate in place and I can drive over it.

 

[joe49]

Does that usually work ok? I was thinking one solution might be to find some sort of base that weighs in at 200-300 pounds , put a rubber pad on the bottom of it - and use that. For two of the smaller benders I have it would work - because they're light enough for me to lift them up on their stands and move them.

But I'm contemplating getting a Diacro #4 bender too, and they weigh in around 350 pounds when they're on the stand - so I'm not sure that solution would work for everything.

My bender is on a 2' x 4' 3" thick plate that I stand on. No rubber just hard wood wedges to level it. Bender mounted near one corner and skewed to have lever in correct position to pull while standing on the plate.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... I mounted mine to a 11.00/ 24.5 truck tire mounted on a dayton rim,...

 

[jimgood]

200-300 lbs is not that much to move with the kind of leverage you have on a bender in the horizontal plane. Even rubber isn't going to give much grip on a dusty garage floor. I'm no engineer but I would imagine you'd need more like 1500 lbs. And even then, I think the size of the footprint might be a limiting factor as well.

I'd mount it to a platform and stand on it as others have said.

 

[Prototyper]

Depending on the condition of your floors, you could devise a simple and very effective vacuum hold down. Ideally, your floor would be sealed or better yet, epoxy coated. Build a base out of fairly heavy steel (24x24x1/4"). Weld some flat stock underneath to space the plate off the floor slightly. Add some heavy duty edge moulding/weatherstrip type seal around outside. Connect a small vacuum pump to a fitting installed in the middle, and crank it up! A base that size, with only 5 psi of vacuum applied, would produce 2880 lbs of force holding it down!

This is employed frequently in diamond hole coring machines to hold the drill motor tight to the slab. It work amazingly well. You'd only have to run the vacuum pump while pulling bends. Could even us one of the air driven vac generators common in the wood working world, assuming you have a decent air supply.

 

[big_dan]

Another suggestion; go "modular." I worked in a small 2 bay garage for a long time and had to make do with small space, so I built a small fab table (roughly 4'x4' plate top, 2x2x1/4 legs) that everything attaches to. And I mean everything. Shrinker/stretchers, small brakes, bender, etc.

My bender is the Woodward Fab manual setup, probably will be hydraulic sooner or later, but this works well. I built a riser using heavy (4x6x3/8 box tube) to get the bender up off the table a little bit also. Mainly all I've used it for is 1 3/4 DOM to date, and no issues. Table probably weighs 400 pounds or so (there's a shelf underneath full of drops, anvil, etc) and if it did move a little while bending, I just put a foot against a leg and pulled away. When finished, I unbolt and stash for later.

Just another idea.

Dan

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Convert it to hydraulic operation, end of problem, then you can put it on casters and roll it around.

 

[sanddan]

View media item 58934
That's why I built one...........

Very nice design, do you have any more details? Are the plates laser cut or are the holes machined? Any drawings or cad you could share for us DIY'ers?

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I guess you could take something like a 4ft x 4ft 1/8 plate, add a couple of braces to spread the load out so it doesn't flex and just stand on the plate so what you're twisting is what you're standing on to hold it all in place. Then remove it and lean it against the wall.

The only other option I'd consider is to install some anchors like others suggested and bolt it to the floor.

 

[vintagespeed1956]

either add hydraulic to it, or bolt it outside somewhere.

when my bender was manual i had a 3 foot long lever bar on it and had to row with a shitload of force to initiate a bend in .120 wall HREW steel tube.....there is NO way that standing on a board or weighing it down would stop that thing from moving.

the other consideration for your bender is what direction your material will be fed into the die? bolting it outside will probably give you the best clearance around for doing multiple plane and angle bends on a 20' stick.

pushing the lever and watching it do all the work sure IS nice tho.

 

[bullnerd]

Some of you guys need to actually read the ops post.

The obvious answer is magnets! Really friggin strong electro magnets in the floor, then just slide whatever bender your using over the magnets and turn them on.

Oh ****, in floor, I'm out!

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Some of you guys need to actually read the ops post.

The obvious answer is magnets! Really friggin strong electro magnets in the floor, then just slide whatever bender your using over the magnets and turn them on.

Oh ****, in floor, I'm out!

 

[pelletman]

I always just bolted my bender to the milling machine if I needed it not to move...

 

[TheEquineFencer]

If you have non-functional radiant heat in the floor....push a fish tape or wire through the tubing, then put a signal toner on the wire and locate the tubing. Then mark the tubing location on the floor and put some flush mount inserts in the floor. Converting the bender to hydraulics works pretty good, or even use electric actuators.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Linear-Actuators/

Putting it on wheels with hydraulics is what I did with my Hossfeld #2 bender. I lived with it for years mounted to a heavy steel plate. It came mounted to a 3 inch thick section of ship hull about 24x24 when I first got it, around 1200 pounds. Mine progressed over the years until I finally mounted it to a cart frame, then went to hydraulics.

Mounting or being able to attach it to a thin steel sheet of 11-12 gauge will work so that you're standing with the bender, but it's still a PITA.