Trusses, loading and permits. Help

[haptiq]

I need some technical help ordering my trusses.
So I'm getting my plans together to pull a permit for a 30x36 workshop with 20 feet of attic truss and 16 feet of scissor to accommodate a lift. I sent the truss plant a drawing with some notes about the building usage and 3 weeks later I got my quote(attached). It isn't what I wanted but I don't have another 3 weeks to wait around, I need to get permitting rolling, I need the layout. Today I sent them a more specific drawing (attached) and talked to a salesman but I don't think we are on the same page.
What I'm asking for is help in stating exactly what I need so they can build the trusses the way I want. Can someone smarter than me please answer these questions?
1)For a 30 foot span and roughly 30psf live load, is it still economical to go 24oc or can I go 16oc with a lighter truss? Just attic storage but I want a little overkill.
2)I want an outside staircase. Do I need a special end truss or can I frame it myself on site? Just talking about the gable end not structural trusses.
3)Is an attic truss this size significantly more expensive than the scissor truss?
Thanks in advance,
Chris

 

[DougWil]

You have to be specific about what you want.

For example I would require XXpsf top chord live load (well what is the live or snow load for your area?? Call the building dept.
Ditto top chord dead load, you need to total up the sheathing any roof, not attic insulation, felt, roofing material etc. They don't know if you have lightweight ribbed steel or what.

You called out the wind load speed, thumbs up!
But you should call out the exposure too. Call the building dept.
Usually B or C. C is more exposed, open country. B is more sheltered.

Now call out the load on the bottom chord, outside the attic area 5psf DL is fine, in the attic storage load I would use 20psf minimum dead load and a 40psf live load.

You can specify where you want a point load from a staircase, and they will design it in.
300lbs at point X'-X".

Make a nice, neat drawing of an attic truss showing all those loads and dimensions.
Don't worry about where the webs will be.

In general, by the time you have trusses made, delivered and installed, a bit beefy ones isn't going to cost much more.

It is best to set the trusses right over a stud and not midspan on the plates.
Much easier to run a truss tie down right down and over that lined up stud.
Plan that out before framing and erecting your walls.

^ like one of these.
With a 10' wall height, 2x4 can't be spaced and further than 16" oc. by code unless designed by an engineer.
I suggest going 2x6 at 24". Make the trusses the same spacing and located over the studs.
You will save trusses, be able to put in higher R insulation in the walls and meet code.

Not that meeting code means that much around here. lol

When you get your truss drawings you can now easily verify they built what you wanted, because it will have all those loads on it.

And verify the drawings are correct BEFORE installing the trusses.
Installing the trusses and then looking at the drawing and loads is a good way to learn not to do that again!

 

[DougWil]

Re read that.
You want an outside staircase with a mandoor opening in one of the gable trusses.
Draw it up and show it on a plan with the quantity one called out.
Point out in the drawing that the bottom chord should have the same height as the other trusses.
You what the floor height the same.

 

[jask]

looks like they have spec'd a scissor gable on the one end... make sure they put the man door opening in the other one!! also spec how you want the overhang ends are cut and save yourself some work- do you want them plumb ( facia and/or gutters), square, or double cut ?
Are you building your gable ends flush or are you building gable ladders yourself?

also you know they quoted you enough trusses to build 2 garages right ?

 

[haptiq]

Dougwil, thanks for the tips. These are the things i assumed the truss maker would ask but they didn't.
Jask, how do you figure I'm getting 2 garages?

 

[matt_i]

I would set trusses 24" oc unless you are trying to improve the load bearing of the floor. Attic trusses will be more expensive due to the large area that can't be occupied by structural members, they have to use larger timbers due to longer unsupported spans. The scissor truss can be filled with supporting members.

The endwall trusses are nothing more than 2x4 column supports every 2ft on center. Keep in mind this isn't as technical as the "span" trusses because the endwall truss is fully supported on the double top plate. You could build it yourself on-site but then its going to be slower trying to exactly match the others (build on ground using clamps and another as a pattern) or pay slightly more for the convenience of having it delivered. Personally I'd rather have the pressed nailer-plates that sit almost flat. What you should NOT do is to buy an endwall truss and start cutting it apart on site.

I wouldn't worry about trying to line up studs with trusses. Just frame your walls @ 16" oc, that's what the double top plate is for. I believe a single-top is allowed if every single truss sits on a stud/column, but its going to be painful if your plans aren't exactly designed and exactly followed. I'm guesing $50-60 worth of timber to add the double-top plate and open up freedom in your framing. 99% of people do it this way. A H1Z or H2.5A truss connector will work perfectly with double-top plates. It isn't as robust as the long strap, but is more than 125# of uplift or so needed per connector? My answer is no, other things will disintegrate before that fails.

 

[matt_i]

This is a different issue from above but you don't have to have the truss engineering finished before submitting your plans, at least in my locality. I would check with yours to be sure. In broad generalities, the Bldg Dept wants to see what is being built, and where. Eventually they will want to see truss engineering at the time of a framing inspection because there will be notes regarding internal bracing, etc. But, its not necessary to have specific details as long as you conform to the same pitch and overall size that you set out at the start.

 

[jpcjguy]

haptiq - do you have a build thread? I am looking at the exact same dimensions as you for a garage. I am in Richmond, VA. Would love to chat about designs, prices, etc.

 

[csp]

This is a different issue from above but you don't have to have the truss engineering finished before submitting your plans, at least in my locality. I would check with yours to be sure.

This is true in four counties in my immediate area that I've built in as well.

Check with your building department before pulling your hair out getting details they don't need just yet.

 

[Truckone]

Im just building my shop right now. Mine is 32' wide and just go 24" on center and tell them attic trusses. Its not much more then storage truss and the extra room is nice to have. the back 24' is attic trusses and the front 40' is scissor trusses. I think it was just under $1000 to go from all scissor trusses to the combination scissor and attic truss package.

 

[jask]

Dougwil, thanks for the tips. These are the things i assumed the truss maker would ask but they didn't.
Jask, how do you figure I'm getting 2 garages?

2 gable ends 7 scissor and 10 attic trusses ( total of 19 ) in your drawing, all of those plus another set of 19 standard trusses are on that quote.

NEVERMIND!!! DOH!!! I just noticed they were piggyback truss

 

[landlord30]

The place I ordered my trusses from sent a guy from the factory out to my place once I had the walls framed. He asked me what I was trying to accomplish as far as roof line look and function. Answered a bunch of other questions and a few days later he had it drawn up for me.

 

[haptiq]

The place I ordered my trusses from sent a guy from the factory out to my place once I had the walls framed. He asked me what I was trying to accomplish as far as roof line look and function. Answered a bunch of other questions and a few days later he had it drawn up for me.

I guess this is the service I was expecting. Maybe that was my mistake. I called the county today and talked with the permit office, It sounds like the building drawings are more general as some of you guys have said. I'm going to go ahead and get my application together for them and give the truss company a few more days before I get a second quote and move on. I'm using my fathers account at a lumber yard so I figured I could get a better deal but I can't deal with the lack of communication. Oh well.
Jcpjguy- I don't have a build thread yet but thanks for reminding me to take before pictures of the property. I always forget that step lol.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I sent the truss plant a drawing with some notes about the building usage and 3 weeks later I got my quote(attached). It isn't what I wanted but I don't have another 3 weeks to wait around, I need to get permitting rolling, I need the layout. Today I sent them a more specific drawing (attached) and talked to a salesman but I don't think we are on the same page.

THEN YOU HAD BETTER GET ON THE SAME PAGE, FAST !

Trusses must be installed "as built"; NO MODIFICATION ! That also means they must be installed "as drawn". Spacing must be exactly according to plans.

NO EXCEPTIONS !!

 

[matt_i]

I was going to add, the information I gave the lumberyard (who interacted with the truss co) was "distance between the blocks" meaning the outer dimension of the walls at the double top plate, the roof pitch, and the amount of overhang. I had them quote "W" style trusses and attic storage trusses where I asked for a 12 foot wide clear-span, ended up going with the latter. Everything was reasonably fast and electronic, meaning I had .pdfs to print and review.

 

[jpcjguy]

I guess this is the service I was expecting. Maybe that was my mistake. I called the county today and talked with the permit office, It sounds like the building drawings are more general as some of you guys have said. I'm going to go ahead and get my application together for them and give the truss company a few more days before I get a second quote and move on. I'm using my fathers account at a lumber yard so I figured I could get a better deal but I can't deal with the lack of communication. Oh well.
Jcpjguy- I don't have a build thread yet but thanks for reminding me to take before pictures of the property. I always forget that step lol.

How far from richmond are you?

 

[kbs2244]

Just an FYI
If all you are going to do upstairs is store stuff it is not a "live" load.
If that is in your request it may be messing things up.

 

[haptiq]

Update, I talked to the actual truss designer on the phone and hammered everything out, no pun intended. The truss designer sounded like a very intelligent, easy to get along with kind of guy. Apparently I didn't get all the pages of the email attachment which included notes. Either way. I beefed up my attic trusses and got my man door gable truss and also made sure everything added up to local code. Also talked to the inspector at the county office to confirm. In the future I have to say I would call the inspectors office first, get and idea of what I need to know and then call the salesman. Once there's a quote number just call the truss plant direct. Thanks everybody for the advice. This thread may be over but a build thread is coming soon.

 

[DougWil]

Just an FYI
If all you are going to do upstairs is store stuff it is not a "live" load.
If that is in your request it may be messing things up.

By code storage loads are Live loads because they can be moved around etc, like furniture and any other live load.

Dead loads are permanent loads such as plywood flooring, insulation, drywall etc and equipment like AC units that aren't moved around but permanently installed.

The minimum uniformly distributed Live Load of storage above ceilings is 20psf.
The minimum for a residential floor other than bedrooms is 40psf.

That is why I suggested the larger of the 2.

 

[haptiq]

By code storage loads are Live loads because they can be moved around etc, like furniture and any other live load.

Dead loads are permanent loads such as plywood flooring, insulation, drywall etc and equipment like AC units that aren't moved around but permanently installed.

The minimum uniformly distributed Live Load of storage above ceilings is 20psf.
The minimum for a residential floor other than bedrooms is 40psf.

That is why I suggested the larger of the 2.

I ended up with 40psf for my attic all said and done. Still considered attic and not inhabitable though. I believe the bottom chord is a 2x10.