chipper
Well-known member
Why not just take the tools home for a few months and this will all blow over
Snap On Repo Traded Tools?
- Thread starter Kevin_James_Fan87
- Start date
thatonedude
Well-known member
I know most dealers keep the serial number of the boxes they sell on hand in case they do have to repo.
catch2otwo
Well-known member
I seems warm pancakes only did a background check on the box. He didn't just rat the guy out. As it turned out the box had a lien on it and the driver went and repossessed it. Had there been no lien warm pancakes could have followed up on the deal.
I see where you're coming from here though catch22. Another way this could have gone down is how I bought an expensive tool once. I answered the ad but when I went to see it I was told it was in hawk at a pawn shop and he was going to lose it in the next day or two so he was selling it at a price he could pay the debt off and get a bit of cash in his pocket. He showed me his original receipts for about $5500. We went to the pawn shop together and he told the guy he was here to pay up. The guy put the tool on the counter, I grabbed it and checked it out and when satisfied I handed the broker $1600 who looked like he'd just been bamboozled but what could he do (what comes around goes around). We went back to the sellers house and I tested the tool further and paid him the other $900 he had been asking for. Street price would have been about $3500 at the time so it was a win - win - win.
Further to the conversation and interest in trying to help a person rather than stomp on him - it's pretty pathetic what rats we're conditioned to be. From ratting out on our class mates and becoming the teacher's pet in school we've been conditioned to tattle on our peers our entire lives. The 1% keep passing new laws to make everything we do or enjoy illegal. When our fellow 99%ers cross the line or find a loop hole our 1st instinct is to report them to the 1%. When East Germans using crude Russian tools tore the Berlin wall down the Russian Stasi fled overnight back to Russia. They recklessly abandoned their offices with all their records. They'd run a fear campaign over east germany since the end of the war. Over the next several years the east german citizens went into those stasi offices, poured over the records and discovered 1 in ever 7 citizens were stasi informants, ratting out on friends, family and acquaintances. The stasi had a dossier on every east german citizen. One case was discovered where a man's wife was a stasi informant and was ratting out everything about him. Now those citizens all have access to fine West German tools
Even ********* criminals have an unwritten code amongst themselves to prevent selling out their fellow partners in crime. It's called honour among thieves. Unfortunately we 99%ers fail to recognize when we're all in the same soup and have no such code so we continue to play into the hands of the 1%ers even though we enjoy watching truth based movies like Robin Hood, Brave Heart, Rob Roy, Michael Collins, Gandhi etc, etc. Good on ya catch22 for not conforming to this rat mentality!
Honestly, its not so much about being a rat, but speaking from personal experiences, sometimes life doesn't swing the way you want to. We all get caught up in hard places sometimes. We've all heard or know first hand of people losing jobs, having to sell things to stay a float. I've had to sell a car for less than that was owed on it, to put myself into a better position financially. I guess my point being, not everyone is trying to scam their way out of a situation, getting "the man" involved when he doesn't have to be is kind of silly. Makes things harder on all parties involved.
We obviously don't know what the story is with "warm pancakes" situation so thats why I chose it to play devils advocate. Ive been scammed before, but have also been on the receiving end of someone's graciousness and understanding, so i try to pay it forward.
I can see things going south for a new wrench getting in over his head with the snap on guy and needing to sell things to pay off a tab. That situation doesn't seem far fetched at all. Rather than calling the snap on guy and having things repo'd and getting his credit dinged, seems like a lot of unnecessary boogering of the situation.
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Well it's true about the "cross collateralization". But not true that you can legally sell an item with a lien against it without the permission of the lien holder. In essence, you are removing the collateral that was the basis for the loan. You simply can't do it. The only way is to make arrangement with the seller to pay off the loan prior to taking possession of the box.
The cross collateralization you mention is pretty wild. Let's say you have $5,000 in Snap-on tools all 100% paid for. Now you sell your old Harbor Freight toolbox privately, and go buy and Epiq for $13,000, (on Snap-on credit). After one payment, you default on the box and stop making payments. They can repossess the Epiq, AND your $5,000 in fully paid for Snap-on tools. Their logic is that the used one month old Epiq is no worth only $6,500. Your used tools are worth $2,500. So they still can't recoup their outstanding loan....and after all is said and done, you've soiled your credit, and still owe them $4,000, (less any payments made on the Epiq.)
I wish I could find the actual Snap-on UCC agreement that I once had from doing a UCC search on a guy, I would post it here if I could.....but trust me, it claims to give Snap-on ALL the rights I have said above.
The thing is.... 95% of the guys out there pay or want to pay their tool bill. it's that other 5% that ruins this business.
I refuse.. Yes that's right..... I refuse to write snappy EC contracts on guys that I know don't like to pay. Their credit could be spotless and they might get a $10k plus credit line from snappy but I won't do the deal. If I chase them for $25 a week for truck credit I'm damn sure not going to chase them for snappy credit. One guy ended up buying a competitors box...... In part to try and tick me off but I could care less. Guess what.....less than 6 months later that boxed was "given back" and that guy now works out of a cardboard box. LOL
I refuse.. Yes that's right..... I refuse to write snappy EC contracts on guys that I know don't like to pay. Their credit could be spotless and they might get a $10k plus credit line from snappy but I won't do the deal. If I chase them for $25 a week for truck credit I'm damn sure not going to chase them for snappy credit. One guy ended up buying a competitors box...... In part to try and tick me off but I could care less. Guess what.....less than 6 months later that boxed was "given back" and that guy now works out of a cardboard box. LOL
OP
Kevin_James_Fan87
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- Feb 2, 2015
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Thanks for all the replies and info guys. I wasn't trying to make my Snap On guy out to be a bad guy or anything and I'm not sure if he would for sure to take them from me. I was just curious as to what he could do if he were to take action. I have a good relation with him and I wouldn't want to burn any bridges by refusing to give him back the tools but on the same hand I'd get burned on the box I traded for the tools if I just rolled over and caved in. And when I asked if the kid did pay them off Snappy told me what he had paid (500 and some change) and what he currently owed, and that it would be easier for him to take back the tools because they had more value than all the stupid little things he kept buying like wrench racks, Snap On apparel, etc. He hasn't out right told me he was going to take them but he asked me if I was going to start paying my bill. I don't have an account because I always pay with cash. So he was insinuating it was now my debt because the kid flaked out. Some posters seem to have misread and thought I traded a box I owned snappy for but I owned it and to the best of my knowledge the kid had paid snappy what he owed for the tools.
I don't think you broke any state or federal laws in acquiring the tools and since s-o had no claim on them till after you became their owner I don't think the driver has a case against you that would hold up in court. They need to chase the kid and I'd tell the driver that straight up. If he hands you a bill hand him one back for your toolbox of the same amount. Surely he can't think you should be the one who gets stuck because his client who he had an agreement with defaulted.
You could trade some tools with anyone else in the shop who has a s-o account, have them for 6 months and then if that person gets hit by a car or has issues and can't pay his s-o bill he thinks he can come to you and bill you for the last tools the injured guy hasn't paid for? Sounds like ********. What do your co-workers think of all this (specially the guy who wound up with your old box)?
You could trade some tools with anyone else in the shop who has a s-o account, have them for 6 months and then if that person gets hit by a car or has issues and can't pay his s-o bill he thinks he can come to you and bill you for the last tools the injured guy hasn't paid for? Sounds like ********. What do your co-workers think of all this (specially the guy who wound up with your old box)?
Marc Benjamin
Well-known member
Dude you don't have a good relationship with this guy if he's treating you like this. He's taking you for a fool because he thinks you're just a mechanic I guess.
Id tell this guy to **** off it the next time he "insinuates" that the debt somehow transferred to you.
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rlanicek
Well-known member
I've never purchased tools from a Snap-On truck so I don't know what kind of credit is granted but that's what it all boils down to.
Was it revolving or installment? Was it unsecured or secured?
If revolving/unsecured then the credit is like any other credit card. The issuer cannot repossess whatever you bought with the credit. The person who signed the contract is responsible for the debt, not whoever ended up with the goods purchased.
If it is secured debt then the tools are collateral and can be repossessed no matter who has them.
Was it revolving or installment? Was it unsecured or secured?
If revolving/unsecured then the credit is like any other credit card. The issuer cannot repossess whatever you bought with the credit. The person who signed the contract is responsible for the debt, not whoever ended up with the goods purchased.
If it is secured debt then the tools are collateral and can be repossessed no matter who has them.
catch2otwo
Well-known member
Yep, there is no way I would consider this guy "on good terms" with me after that. Yikes
Anarius
Well-known member
Wow, if a tool dealer ever told me to start paying on a debt like that I'd flip!
Skeevy **** like this is why Cornwall is not allowed at my shop! Rep came in with his flyers, and they had a good deal a lube tool set, strap wrenches and such. I think it was like $94 regularly $125. I pointed it out to our apprentice, and went on the truck with him. He bought the set and gave the rep $40 (so he should owe $54 +tax). Cornwall guy gave him a receipt for $85 + tax remaining on the truck account. We noticed it as soon as the rep left and the guy showed me his receipt. No big deal, right? Tool guy forgot the sale price.
Next week comes along, and Nate (the apprentice) and I go talk to the Cornwall guy, who was a complete **** and wouldn't admit he made a mistake. We showed him the flyer with the same set for $94 and he claimed that as a independent tool dealer, he was not required to honor the flyer prices. He then told us Nate should have been sure of what price he was paying before paying it. Nate told him for the $125 price, the tools weren't worth it, give him a refund of the $40 and he'll give the tools back. Cornwall guy refused. Said the tools were now used, and the value was only $60 on the used set, so if Nate turned them in he would owe $25 (125 - 40 -60).
Complete scumbag *******. I paid him the $25 out of my pocket, we gave him the tool set back, and I made him print a receipt showing a $0 balance on Nate's account and the account being closed. Then I told him to leave and never come back - if he did I'd have his truck towed for illegal parking (there was no place in that lot he could park without blocking at least 1 bay and we had 'no parking' signs up).
Called Cornwall and complained about this ******, they told us as an independent dealer they had no way to access his accounts and verify anything. Morons!
We were bullshitting with the Snapon guy a couple weeks later, told him that story and he sold Nate a set of similar lube tools at $40 off, and gave me a $25 credit on my account. I don't work there anymore, but Nate still does and had a shiny new blue 60" epiq. And I will never own a Cornwall tool.
Skeevy **** like this is why Cornwall is not allowed at my shop! Rep came in with his flyers, and they had a good deal a lube tool set, strap wrenches and such. I think it was like $94 regularly $125. I pointed it out to our apprentice, and went on the truck with him. He bought the set and gave the rep $40 (so he should owe $54 +tax). Cornwall guy gave him a receipt for $85 + tax remaining on the truck account. We noticed it as soon as the rep left and the guy showed me his receipt. No big deal, right? Tool guy forgot the sale price.
Next week comes along, and Nate (the apprentice) and I go talk to the Cornwall guy, who was a complete **** and wouldn't admit he made a mistake. We showed him the flyer with the same set for $94 and he claimed that as a independent tool dealer, he was not required to honor the flyer prices. He then told us Nate should have been sure of what price he was paying before paying it. Nate told him for the $125 price, the tools weren't worth it, give him a refund of the $40 and he'll give the tools back. Cornwall guy refused. Said the tools were now used, and the value was only $60 on the used set, so if Nate turned them in he would owe $25 (125 - 40 -60).
Complete scumbag *******. I paid him the $25 out of my pocket, we gave him the tool set back, and I made him print a receipt showing a $0 balance on Nate's account and the account being closed. Then I told him to leave and never come back - if he did I'd have his truck towed for illegal parking (there was no place in that lot he could park without blocking at least 1 bay and we had 'no parking' signs up).
Called Cornwall and complained about this ******, they told us as an independent dealer they had no way to access his accounts and verify anything. Morons!
We were bullshitting with the Snapon guy a couple weeks later, told him that story and he sold Nate a set of similar lube tools at $40 off, and gave me a $25 credit on my account. I don't work there anymore, but Nate still does and had a shiny new blue 60" epiq. And I will never own a Cornwall tool.
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So I'm a new part changer and got a wild situation on my hands.... So I bought this basically new snap on roll cart from a pawn shop for a great deal but after a while I checked the serial number with snap on out of curiosity and the stupid box has a balance with the original owner! I have a receipt with the serial number and my info on it from the pawn shop so am I safe from getting it taken from Mr snappy or am I screwed?
bczygan
Well-known member
Jarhead0408
Well-known member
Interesting thread for sure.
Ironhorse74
MEMBER EMERITUS
Years ago when I turned wrenches for a living, I got crosswise with the Snap-on dealer over some relatively minor stuff. I think he said something was warrantable when I bought it, he swears he didn't. I paid off my balance with Snap-on and never bought another thing from the guy. A year or two later bought a Snap-on toolbox from a guy who was leaving. I had a receipt with the serial number from the guy I bought it from. Snap-on guy took me to small claims court. I still have the toolbox.
So as I understand it, tools from a snap on truck are really just a handshake agreement between yourself and the dealer that you will pay him. It's not reported positively to your credit if you pay him each week on time, boxes are financed through snap on corporate and are reported to credit agencies. I've gotten plenty of tools from my dealer on credit and I've never signed anything? If for some reason the snap on guy tried to take the tools from you I don't think he would have a leg to stand on.
WhiffySpark
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- Oct 22, 2009
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- 6,252
Your receipt should say your tools are property of X until balance is paid. at least mine does. He could send you to collections as well
derosa
Well-known member
Doubt he's gonna ask you for the serial number. Just use it and don't go bragging that it isn't paid off. If you're really worried take it back and tell them there's a lien on it.
Marc Benjamin
Well-known member
You bought that in good faith, but if you're worried, I'd just take the stickers (they have them in the inside too) off and call it a day. Burden of proof is theirs, prove it in court or **** it I say.
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thegroundpounder99
Well-known member
You're safe.
When reading some of the stories, you have to put yourself in the dealers position. They're going to try to get their product back. They can say a lot and threaten, but they're pretty much screwed and they know it.
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Sorry I didn't read every post so this may have already been covered but I believe, technically, the box can't be repossessed from new owner unless SO had a security interest in it and had filed a lien on property before it had been sold to a third party. The original owner owes money on it not the box itself. If SO didn't have a lien on it at time it was sold their only recourse is to go against original buyer for the money he owed on it.
There was a car example in earlier thread. The reason a car can be repossessed if balance isn't paid is because the lender has lien against it and title can't be passed until the loan is paid off and buyer is released from title. I would think with the price of some SO boxes, SO credit may actually have valid liens filed against boxes bought on credit. I highly doubt they do that with normal hand tools (ratchets and such).
For a $500 balance, I doubt SO would take a third party to court over a box sold by original buyer before it was paid. It would cost more in legal fees than they would stand to recover. An individual SO dealer may have other ideas though. In any case if he doesn't have a valid lien against property in question, he wouldn't stand a chance in court. If he did have a lien though, he'd probably be able to recover the box.
With all that said, I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advise, just my personal opinion. My two cents...
There was a car example in earlier thread. The reason a car can be repossessed if balance isn't paid is because the lender has lien against it and title can't be passed until the loan is paid off and buyer is released from title. I would think with the price of some SO boxes, SO credit may actually have valid liens filed against boxes bought on credit. I highly doubt they do that with normal hand tools (ratchets and such).
For a $500 balance, I doubt SO would take a third party to court over a box sold by original buyer before it was paid. It would cost more in legal fees than they would stand to recover. An individual SO dealer may have other ideas though. In any case if he doesn't have a valid lien against property in question, he wouldn't stand a chance in court. If he did have a lien though, he'd probably be able to recover the box.
With all that said, I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advise, just my personal opinion. My two cents...
DTE
Well-known member
I don't know if tool companies do it or not, or if it is done in all states. But here in NC lenders file a lien with the County for different things. For example a finance co. I used to buy repos from would loan money to a homeowner to replace his ac system, they would file that lien with the County. ( I do not remember what it is called ) so if the house was sold and the lawyer failed to find this lein they would go after the new owner for it. ( the lien would be on the ac system ) A friend of mine bought a used skid steer for like 25k a while later the Sheriff is at his shop asking about it , same deal there was a recorded lien he knew nothing about but the guys family refunded my friend his money to keep there kid out of jail. Thought I would share it. my friend was pretty undo until he got his 25k back because there was a recorded lien with the Register of deeds and he screwed.
pl_silverado
Well-known member
More than likely your going to eat the 25% you get charged back and have your accountant write it off as a bad debt expense, seeing as how SOC eats the remaining balance.
What you described is way too much headache for 25%.
If you dont have a binding contract with the person who now has the toolbox
You wont get very far in court suing him.youre only real recourse is to lein the
Individual who originally purchased the box.the cops will call it a civil matter
And the court will do nothing because you dont have a contract with the second
Tech. So i call bs on suing tech two.
The reason a car gets repossessed for nonpayment is totally different.there is actual title to that piece of property that the bank holds, therefore they can legally reposess the car.
Apples and oranges in my opinion.
Now would i get involved in ripping off the snap-on guy like that , no way , but
I have morals and scruples,but alot of people out there dont, so im sure it happens alot.
blown94conv
Well-known member
Didn't know there were so many legal experts on here.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
ZRX61
Well-known member
Two socket sets, a ratchet & a light cost a grand?? You people have lost your ******* minds.
emeraldcoupe
Well-known member
I really appreciate my snap-on guy he is down to earth and doesn't push us.... I mean he literally is there for convenience and to stop us from working haha I just wanted to get input back to make sure I didn't do anything wrong or have to give up my new toolbox because someone borrowed from the pawn shop then lost it without paying Mr snappy and I'm stuck with the bill!!!
Oldgloryfirearms
Well-known member
you apparently have never been on a SO truck
Tell me about it...
They try to fix thigs by day to pay for that 1-800 law school books for only 3 small payments by night so they can some day try to screw over a tool truck by some loop hole they think will allow them to pay $20 on and then bounce.
Perfect job opportunity for legal experts.
http://www.attorneyjobsinusa.com/jo...labasas-ca-harbor-freight-tools-5767de3421d0f
Yep what he said
What if you sell something you still owe money on but continue to make the payments like a diag computer for example?
Then it's not a repo issue, is it? Nobody's going to come looking for it if you're still making the payments.
mbshop
Well-known member
As a mac tool dealer long ago, most all deals were on me. If you signed the reciept it clearly says the tools are mine till they are paid off. Period. So even if traded,
the tool belongs to me. Just like recieving stolen property. I had to repocess tools from one guy. I showed up and he happened to not be there. So I notified the boss about the situation and took the tools. On my way home I get a call from the wife that the cops are looking for me for theft. So I call them up and say I'm coming to the police station. I get there and explain things and show them the reciept that clearly spells out things. Cop follows me to the shop and then proceeds to chew out the guy. Came close to arresting him for filing a false report. Anyway, the guy paid, I gave back the tools and never sold to him again. Course the owner did not like this and the guy was fired a few weeks later. Was good for me because the other guys always paid on time. So, the tools belong to the seller till it's paid off. Period.
the tool belongs to me. Just like recieving stolen property. I had to repocess tools from one guy. I showed up and he happened to not be there. So I notified the boss about the situation and took the tools. On my way home I get a call from the wife that the cops are looking for me for theft. So I call them up and say I'm coming to the police station. I get there and explain things and show them the reciept that clearly spells out things. Cop follows me to the shop and then proceeds to chew out the guy. Came close to arresting him for filing a false report. Anyway, the guy paid, I gave back the tools and never sold to him again. Course the owner did not like this and the guy was fired a few weeks later. Was good for me because the other guys always paid on time. So, the tools belong to the seller till it's paid off. Period.