Argon Tanks - What's there to know?

[TipsyMcStagger]

What would I need to ask if interested in buying a mig welding setup like this one on CL? Are tanks owned? Rented? Exchanged like BBQ propane tanks? Do they have to be inspected at intervals like SCUBA tanks? If the seller represents the tank as owned, how do I know it's not an unreturned (stolen) rental tank?

The Lincoln 180 Dual is $1000 new, so this guy is asking a $500 premium for a $35 cart and two bottles (which may or may not be full).

Trying get educated so I don't make a mistake, whether it be this setup or another.

Thanks.

Tipsy

 

[pi_guy]

Betting he did one job and he is trying to get his money back.
Overpriced.

Tanks can be owned by companies or private parties, some suppliers will only take back there bottles some lease bottles other do not care.

 

[Murphy4570]

Bottles vary by region. My local Matheson doesn't give a damn. I own all of my tanks outright, even the big 300cf one. I only get them exchanged there, and they know that. I've taken in a couple old Airgas bottles before, and had no problem exchanging them.

Call your local supplier and see. Some play hardball, some are nice.

Also, that bottle should be 75% argon/25% carbon dioxide. If it is pure argon, wrong gas mix for MIG welding. Pure argon is for TIG welding.

 

[texasfiremedic]

Most anywhere will take a bottle that has a slick ring. The ring on the top below the valve. This being said tractor supply now only takes theirs. Some suppliers will only take their bottles. Most of the suppliers that only take their bottles have their name on the ring. There are some size of bottles that are only rental bottles. All of my bottles are slick ringed bottles. I make sure when I trade them in they are slick ringed in return. You don't have a leg to stand on if there is writing on the bottle and no bill of sale from the supplier that your trading with. The supplier fine for taking in another companies bottle and refilling it can and will be substantial. Most will not refill bottles without it being either slick ring or there company or a subsidiary. The bottle can get you screwed quickly on buying on that is supposed a owner bottle and not. I have returned my fair share to the owner. it does not take very many to learn the in and outs. Acetylene generally will have the owners stamp on the bottle usually below the valve. The one on craigslist that is shown will have a sticker tag that states what it is and the last company that filled it. The tag must be replaced every time the bottle is refilled if it was refilled by a different supplier. (hazmat DOT reg) I would call the company on that tag. Tell them the size of bottle and If that would be a rental or an owner bottle.

 

[shawhite]

Betting he did one job and he is trying to get his money back.
Overpriced.

would have to agree. You could probably buy everything new for the price he is asking. Usually if the tanks are rented they will have the bottle company stamped near the neck. Most places here don't rent 80cf so I would say he owns those. C25 (75% argon 25% co2) is the most shielding base for mild steel. 100% argon is useful if you are welding aluminum.

 

[cgrutt]

Suppliers usually exhange bottles, even if you own it, so you wind up with their bottle when you exchange the tank. If you bring in somebody else's tank, they may try to charge you a "recertification" fee. I recently bought a new tank online and went to exchange it at local tractor supply. It was the same brand tank they use but didn't have tag on it since it had never been filled before. They tried to charge me about $40. I asked to speak with a manager who agreed it was the same tank as the one they were exhanging and didn't charge me the recert fee. The one I received is still my tank, but it's used, LOL...

I believe if you don't own the tank they also charge you a rental fee but it's pretty much same deal, bring it in, exchange it, pay for it and they send you on your way. I think you're supposed to keep the paperwork in the unlikely event you're stopped by DOT while transporting it. Paperwork will say if it's rented or owned. If you move forward with welder, ask the guy for the tank's paperwork, which he should have gotten when he filled/exhanged tank.

 

[MoonRise]

Pure argon is for TIG welding (almost anything).

And pure argon is also used for MIG welding of aluminum.

Standard shielding gas mix for short circuit transfer mode on steel is C25 (75% argon and 25% CO2). Other shielding gas mixes might be 98-2 (98% argon and 2% O2) for spray transfer mode MIG on steel.

And a brand new Lincoln PowerMig 210 MP has a $200 rebate from Lincoln going on, for a listed price of $999 after rebate. Same price as a Lincoln PowerMig 180 Dual.

Welding cylinders absolutely DO have to have current hydrotest markings, or have to be restested. Some suppliers handle retests as just part of the cylinder 'exchange', others may charge you for the retest.

Cylinders can be owned, or leased/rented.

As to how to check if a cylinder is a non-returned lease that the seller is trying to 'sell' to you, ask several LWS and see how they handle cylinders. Some only handle 'big' cylinders on a lease basis, others will handle 'big' owner cylinders. Most of the time (at least around here), if you 'own' a cylinder you just end up exchanging it for a full one when 'your' cylinder is empty. You still 'own' a cylinder, just not the same physical cylinder that you may have had originally.

$999 PowerMIG180Dual brand new from LWS
$20 plain Tillman MIG welding gloves
??? tank price depends on size An 80 ft3 cylinder of C25 is $202 at Cyberweld, a 60 ft3 is $153.

http://store.cyberweld.com/migaccessories1.html

??? Unknown mask and 'jacket', plain mask is maybe $25 for a fixed cheapy, jacket could be perfectly adequate cloth $25 welding jacket

$40 retail for an extra 12.5# spool of Lincoln L56 MIG wire, at Lowes or HomeDepot. Less via some sale or fleabay.

~$1100 for 'everything' except the cylinder(s) and the cart. Brand new.

The CL seller is asking way too much IMHO. Pretty much full retail + ~$100 profit is about what he seems to be asking (and I'm being 'generous' to the seller there).

Negotiate way down, or just buy stuff brand new for about the same price or less (and get a jacket and gloves that actually fit you. For all you know, the seller has teeny tiny hands and the gloves are XXS Ladies gloves. Just fine if that is the size glove that fits you, no good if you need a Men's XXL.)

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

This has been an education. Thanks very much for the comprehensive replies!

Tipsy

 

[My Old Tools]

All pressure tanks require 10 year hydro testing. They don't require the visual inspection that SCUBA tanks require. By the way, hydro is a federal requirement, SCUBA VIP is an industry decision.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Thanks for the continued feedback. For the amount of use that it will see, I'm leaning toward the Eastwood 175. Seems like a good value, especially with the aluminum spool gun.

I'll just buy the tank(s) locally.

Tipsy

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Follow on question:

What size tank is best for light home use with regard to both tank cost, tank availability (especially those can be commonly exchanged) and with regard to adequate capacity?

Tipsy

 

[shawhite]

What tank size is best for you will be dependent on how much you plan to weld.

 

[PSYKO_Inc]

For tank size, get the biggest you can manage. The price for a refill is mostly labor and overhead, so the price difference between 80cf and 250cf might only be a couple bucks. I tend to prefer 125cf and 150cf tanks, only because 250cf tanks are heavy and difficult to move around by myself.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

For tank size, get the biggest you can manage. The price for a refill is mostly labor and overhead, so the price difference between 80cf and 250cf might only be a couple bucks. I tend to prefer 125cf and 150cf tanks, only because 250cf tanks are heavy and difficult to move around by myself.

Good info.

Thanks.

Tipsy

 

[rsanter]

For tank size, get the biggest you can manage. The price for a refill is mostly labor and overhead, so the price difference between 80cf and 250cf might only be a couple bucks. I tend to prefer 125cf and 150cf tanks, only because 250cf tanks are heavy and difficult to move around by myself.

this is as true as it gets....

and that used welder is no deal, he wants way too much

bob

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

this is as true as it gets....

and that used welder is no deal, he wants way too much

bob

Here's another, though it's the older Hobart Handler 210 and not the newer 210MVP that's 110 and 220.

Tipsy

 

[md21722]

80cf will give you a good enough welding time. Sure bigger can be better, but if you try for bigger make sure it will fit on your welding cart and still roll around! My local welding shop threw in a 20cf tank when I bought the welder from them, the guy said it was more or less a backup tank. I see folks on here commenting about places that will and won't take stuff if it was from another company. I have never had a problem exchanging nitrogen tanks but haven't exchanged many welding tanks. Sometimes what can happen if you have a smaller tank is that they don't have that size in stock so you can pay the exchange to the larger tank. So lets say you have a 40cf tank but they only have 80cf. They will generally credit you 100% of the cost of the 40cf tankand sell you an 80cf. Last time this happened it cost me about $8 more to double the size of my tank and another $14 for the gas inside it. I have done this in 3 different states.