Water in breaker box

[DocPhilMD]

Hi guys. Thanks in advance for help here. I got quite a scare tonight. My wife noticed some water on the floor in the basement. After some digging I narrowed it down to water coming from inside the conduit in the breaker panel. The breaker box is on the west side of the house in the basement (below the level of the meter). The meter is outside near the porch also on the west side as well I couldn't see anywhere that water might get in to the meter. We had a super hard rain today and it was coming in horizontally.

What should I do here? What's my next step?

 

[DocPhilMD]

Here are some more pics

The first one is the area above the meter box.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Do any of the circuits come into the panel via conduit?

Can u tell if the water is coming in from the conduit that goes to the meter?

 

[Rookie2]

If it's entering by the conduit then it may be cracked conduit or a LB (90deg) going down and thru the basement wall. If not then it was blowing in behind the top of the meter socket and entering open screw holes and following wires down to the panel. Also the front face panel is not generally sealed around the glass wattmeter.

If is a persistent problem then you will see evidence of rust/corrosion on/around breakers, if it was storm related it will be hard to duplicate or trace.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Yes, the main circuit from the meter box comes in via that conduit in picture 3. And that is where the water was coming in.
I'm sure of it.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Do any of the circuits come into the panel via conduit?

Can u tell if the water is coming in from the conduit that goes to the meter?

Yes, I believe that conduit in picture 3 is from the meter and that is where the water was coming from.

We had that hard driving rain yesterday so I'm hoping that is what caused it and its not a broken conduit.

So at this point, do i just monitor for more water? How can I seal that box better?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Could it be condensation? Id pop the cover off the meter socket and have a look inside.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Could it be condensation? Id pop the cover off the meter socket and have a look inside.

I couldn't get in there. Is that frowned upon? how do I break in the box?

 

[Rookie2]

dig it up ! look, then take picture.

That seal is on the meter socket for a reason. We could pay $300.00 fine for removing it.

 

[DocPhilMD]

dig it up ! look, then take picture.

That seal is on the meter socket for a reason. We could pay $300.00 fine for removing it.

Is there a more conservative option? Like sealing the box and monitoring ?

 

[Rookie2]

sure ! silicone ! around the top meter socket to J-channel and J-channel to siding would be my first attempt.

 

[manwithtools]

I highly doubt that meter box could produce enough condensation to cause water to drain into the conduit. The meter box is too small and is the same ambient conditions as all the material around it.

If this only happens in a driving rain storm under certain wind conditions and directions then I'd monitor and see if it does it again. Please don't spray a garden hose on it to see if you can recreate it - just in case someone suggests that later on. Meter bases are normally NEMA 3R which means they are weather resistant - not necessarily rain "proof" although they will not typically let any appreciable amount of water in.

I'd be much more suspect that the water is entering the conduit below ground. Over the years, the conduit can come part at the joints if they weren't glued properly or the ground moves appreciably. Ground water soaking in during a heavy persistent rain could be entering the conduit below ground if they are any breaks or openings in it. This is one of the reasons that conduit below ground is considered a wet location by code.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

dig it up ! look, then take picture.

That seal is on the meter socket for a reason. We could pay $300.00 fine for removing it.

1/2 the houses within a 10 mile radius of omaha I ever go to are missing the tags on meter sockets,theyd have to hire a lot of help just to right the tickets around here anyway.
You could always call the power co and have the pull it off,then have them seal the fitting coming out of socket with thum gum.
Then you can do the same on the fitting coming into the panel.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Found the issue.

What's the fix?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Thats definately a problem,Time to pull the meter and install an expansion joint before refeeding the panel.

 

[Rookie2]

I would dig a little deeper or try to see why it moved between the meter socket and the passage thru the basement wall.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Found the issue.

What's the fix?

I bet the ground freezes in your area...

 

[DocPhilMD]

I would dig a little deeper or try to see why it moved between the meter socket and the passage thru the basement wall.

Right below that pic is an elbow that does into the wall.

The ground settled likely and pulled the elbow away from the conduit.

My FIL was here and while he is knowledgeable he is very old school. His plan is to wrap the joint with rubber tap and fill the conduit with silicone. Thoughts?

 

[Speedy Petey]

My FIL was here and while he is knowledgeable he is very old school. His plan is to wrap the joint with rubber tap and fill the conduit with silicone. Thoughts?

Yeah, don't do that.

Fix it right. Have an electrician have power shut off by the POCO and he can then install an expansion joint.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Yeah, don't do that.

Fix it right. Have an electrician have power shut off by the POCO and he can then install an expansion joint.

How much can I expect to pay for that?

 

[DocPhilMD]

Do you have a pictuer of the expansion joint you would recommend? What would be suitable for outdoor underground use?

 

[walrus]

Found the issue.

What's the fix?

They make clamshell fittings to fix larger sizes not sure if they make them in 2". They are made for damage to pvc conduit but might work in this case if you can get coupling off.

Here you go http://www.kraloyfittings.com/Content/Products/Product.aspx?ProductId=51

 

[DocPhilMD]

They make clamshell fittings to fix larger sizes not sure if they make them in 2". They are made for damage to pvc conduit but might work in this case if you can get coupling off.

Here you go http://www.kraloyfittings.com/Content/Products/Product.aspx?ProductId=51

Do you have any idea where you can find these clamshell fittings locally?

Home depot?

 

[walrus]

Do you have any idea where you can find these clamshell fittings locally?

Home depot?

Electric supply house.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Do you have a pictuer of the expansion joint you would recommend? What would be suitable for outdoor underground use?

This is what I normally use,Id install it mid way between the ground and meter socket to allow for heaving of the ground.
You might also want to check the foundation in that area to check for settling issues.
You can get an expansion joint at any box store.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Is there any way to shut off power at the meter box without having to spend a fortune? Just shut off the juice and disconnect the wires and run a new, longer piece of conduit or an expansion joint?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Define a fortune. Its a simple project for some us,But Ive been doing it for many years.
If you were close Id drive over and help you do it for parts/lunch.
The midwest covers lots of area,where are you located?

 

[DocPhilMD]

Define a fortune. Its a simple project for some us,But Ive been doing it for many years.
If you were close Id drive over and help you do it for parts/lunch.
The midwest covers lots of area,where are you located?

Michigan! Boo!!

Thank you for the offer though.

Seems like there is a lock on the meter box that I'm sure is frowned upon cutting off.

Any other ideas out there?

By the way, my brother and his family were just visiting this weekend and they used baby wipes in the DS bathroom. Jammed the lift pump. So I just got done unjamming it shoulder deep in poop water. And today is my birthday. What a crappy birthday. Literally

 

[nadogail]

Right below that pic is an elbow that does into the wall.

The ground settled likely and pulled the elbow away from the conduit.

My FIL was here and while he is knowledgeable he is very old school. His plan is to wrap the joint with rubber tap and fill the conduit with silicone. Thoughts?

Your FIL and I must have graduated from same school, I am a fan of fiberglass patches for nonmetallic conduits; for metalic conduits you need to include a bonding jumper.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Your FIL and I must have graduated from same school, I am a fan of fiberglass patches for nonmetallic conduits; for metalic conduits you need to include a bonding jumper.

what product do you use? perma wrap?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

It came apart at the fitting,not a whole rubbed in the pipe.
Just say no to band aids,especially on something like an electrical service.
Call a local electrician to pop the meter out and install the expansion joint,shouldnt be a big deal as long as he re use the existing fittings where it pulled apart.
I carry hub saver tools for 1 1/2" and 2" pvc fittings that have been glued or have sawed off pipe stuck in them that i carry in my van that works good for those situations,That could save you from having to replace everything through the wall.

 

[DocPhilMD]

It came apart at the fitting,not a whole rubbed in the pipe.
Just say no to band aids,especially on something like an electrical service.
Call a local electrician to pop the meter out and install the expansion joint,shouldnt be a big deal as long as he re use the existing fittings where it pulled apart.
I carry hub saver tools for 1 1/2" and 2" pvc fittings that have been glued or have sawed off pipe stuck in them that i carry in my van that works good for those situations,That could save you from having to replace everything through the wall.

I will call in the am. What's a fair price for the electrician to do all that and permit to shut off power? 2-3 hundred?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I dont know how it works where you are,around here it would be considered a repair and generally wouldnt require a permit.
Id say 2-3hrs of labor depending on how much he needs to take apart,the old wire should be long enough to reuse though.
Maybe $30-40 in materials depending on what he needs to replace.
Too bad you werent closer.

 

[BombShelter]

This is my first post and I'm not an electrician, but the right line seems to elbow away from the foundation, meaning this is probably not the issue. The other left line, if it does 90 degree and enter the foundation below grade (on the vertical wall) is the absolute worse way for anything to enter the foundation. I would have a licensed electrician dig this area away, find the spot where the conduit enters the foundation and reseal the area. It's most likely around 2'-3' down. I get really nervous working in wet areas with water, metal shovels and water in the fuse box. I've seen this area leak, it's usually townhouses with this type of exterior tie-in, I'm a big fan of up (above grade)...in...and then down to your box...

 

[DocPhilMD]

Water came through the conduit only and there were no issues around the wall.

Quick question. Do breakers or the main need replacing if none tripped?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

As long as theres no signs of oxidation,And the breakers dont have water in them I wouldnt worry to much.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Electrician came out and did a proper fix. Not too pricey. Could be worse!

 

[simpler=better]

Glad you got it fixed the right way

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

 

[Jess]

That's the right way. Too bad that when it was installed they didn't use the slip coupling because fill will always settle. The original installer also didn't properly glue the conduit. AT least its fixed now and you shouldn't have any further issues there.