Can anyone make a case for China Craftsman?

[Aerocraft74]

This is my first post, but this forum has helped me build my garage many a time. I've finally broke down and joined a forum.

I'm looking to get a decent metric wrench set for a motorcycle project, and have used the search function a lot, and what I'm really wondering is this:

Is China Craftsman really THAT bad? Examples please. I know the new ones have been dubbed "lobster claws" for obvious reasons. I'm not questioning that they are lower quality compared to NOS USA, but take a look at what those go for on ebay... Sometimes 2-3 times as much as a china counterpart.

I'm not a professional, but like to stock my tool box like I'm one for obvious reasons. It's the only place locally with a lifetime warranty, But i don't buy junk. I'd rather get a SK or used snap on set and pay out of pocket for a replacement on ebay than have one time use garbage i'm constantly taking back to sears.

Let me know what you think! I've got a wad of cash burning a hole in my wallet!

Conner

 

[Jason280]

Can't comment on sockets or wrenches, but most of the import ratchets are better than the old coarse-tooth plastic-selector USA made Craftsman ratchets.

 

[Superbec]

hmmm.. motorcycles fasteners usually can be seen, wrenching with chinese .... will leave marks and mangled bolts and nuts, that probably will cost you more than the tools.

you need 2 jis screwdrivers #2 and probably #3

6,8,10,12,14 wrenches ( combination if possible)

depending on you model a set of 3/8 sockets could be all you ever need.


buy smart, once and german, you'll never need warranty ...well the screwdrivers can be made in Japan

 

[gdocktor3]

I have the 84t low profile ratchet in 3/8" and love it. It looks to be the exact same internally as a maxx 88, minus 4 teeth obviously. I will buy one in 1/2" when its on sale only because I have enough ratchets and don't really need it. Personally I think their sockets are just as good as they were in the day and quite possibly almost everything else. I have a few of the 18"+ extensions I bought when on sale and they have worked fine, a few ratchet wrenches no issue, and a torque wrench that works great. The argument most people have is why pay 3x more for Craftsman Taiwan, when you can buy HF Taiwan that's probably the exact same quality, but way cheaper.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

They want the old USA prices for Chinese products. That's enough to make me not interested.

If COO is out of the equation, I'm buying gear-wrench Taiwan, Williams Taiwan, various others, for less than current craftsman. Realistically, sears will be out of business in the next year, so it's moot.

 

[cherokee140]

It is not made in china that is the problem....it is the spec that it is built to.

China....or anyone for that matter will build your widget to whatever price point you want. You want quality you are going to pay for that quality...no matter where it is made....it has nothing to do with country of origin.

WE (consumers) want cheap stuff....if we would buy the $50 screwdrivers they would make us good quality $50 screwdrivers.....but just how many PEOPLE IN GENERAL look at a screwdriver set and see that $50 set of 6 and the $9.99 set of 25 and go....yea I will buy that expensive set. That is not our culture in general at the moment. Oh yes sure there are people out there that do want a quality tool that will last a lifetime.....and have that lifetime replacement....but wait now that $10 set has lifetime replacement....ok.....it just got harder now.

And you know what that $50 set is likely made in china as well.....

Like I said they will make what you want.....and the quality of the item CAN be there....it is do you want to pay for that quality....most people do not.

 

[1950mercury]

I'd pass on china craftsman wrenches. Most likely you won't have to use the warranty on a good wrench. Williams USA, SK,proto,snap on,Mac, Armstrong etc. I'd buy gear wrench,tekton or husky before craftsman.

Buy slightly used USA set on eBay cheap.

I would avoid anything with a flank drive plus open end with teeth for a bike

 

[Ducatisoc]

The bolt knows not what turns it

 

[XJPat]

I have the china made cross force wrenches, not sure they still make them. I have to admit they are my go to wrench set, I love them, no problems at all.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you are looking at Made in China Craftsman, just go buy Harbor Freight ! Same quality and about 1/3 the price.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I see people starting out with craftsmen still. Occasionally they'll ask for one of my sockets but for what they do its fine.

And I wouldn't bother with HF. I'm sure craftsmen is a step up. Just because it's imported doesn't mean it's all the same.

iPhones come from China don't they?

 

[nieuport17]

Sears is about to go under. Its just a matter of time now. I wouldn't count on "lifetime" warranty.
Not sure about Ace stores' Craftsman.

 

[sberry]

The stuff works and its cheap. Who care about a 30 yr warranty on a dollar wrench. I agree the small sets are higher price than HF and where Sears is a bargain today is in the sale sets.

 

[finn]

I'd rather work with Craftsman tools than some of the junk I've bought from HF.

If you don't like Sears, get your Craftsman tools from Ace Hardware or order them from Summit.

Craftsman tools are regularly on sale, so ignore the guys comparing list price of Craftsman to the prices of anything else.

 

[Schurkey]

Make sure that whatever wrenches/ratchets you buy are long enough to give you the leverage you need. Craftsman was infamous for short wrenches--too long to be "stubby", too short for decent torque.

Speaking of torque, you're going to want a USA torque wrench in 3/8", too.

 

[lightning02]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OZJN3PQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

way better then anything cman has to offer. i own both. plus these come with a great wrench organizer. (you can buy 6mm and 7mm in singles if you need them. there couple bucks.). tekton has a VERY well respected warranty as well. just email or call and your will have a new tool on the way. dont have to ship the older one back or pay for shipping. they reply every time.

 

[Fedwrench]

It's still pennies on the piece pricing if buying a set on sale. The warranty is probably still one of the easiest to use. Despite store closings, there are still lots of Sears stores around. Although not as large as it once was, there's still a large selection of open stock items.

People have been saying Sears is going under at any minute and it well might but, it's still here.

Tool selection is an individual taste. There are many tool snobs within these pages that lose sight of the fact that tools are meant to used and not polished or worshiped.

Welcome to the Journal!!!

 

[zendriver]

Yes.

About 99% of everything made any more is made in China and the world continues to go around, every day.


From what I have seen on this forum, Snap on, craftsman, Harbor freight, SK tools, either work good or they break.
american-made craftsman tools get a premium price on eBay for the same reasons the Duesenberg sells sky.

The perception of value, and the fact they will never be made again.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Davefr]

A metric wrench set is probably the single most used tool set and will be used over one's lifetime.

For that reason alone I'd opt for higher quality:

SK, Wright, Williams, Proto for top tier quality. Or find some used CM like their full polished Industrial series or any of the top tier brands you can find in good used condition.

There's probably a case to be made for some Chinese CM but metric wrenches are not one of them IMHO.

 

[gdocktor3]

Even if Sears goes under, the Craftsman name will still be around. Apex will most likely still honor the warranty, you just might receive Crescent or KD/Allen in return if the Craftsman name did die with it.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I think you would be OK with the wrenches even though they have fallen from grace in my eyes. But they aren't going to melt in your hands or anything and they do work. I would say though if you are willing to buy used and spend the money on SO they are a better quality. It's all in what you want to spend. I have both and I do like the SO better. They just feel better and they have longer handles that offer more leverage.

If you are working on older Japanese motorcycles I would also recommend a manual impact driver like this one http://www.sears.com/craftsman-impa...0g7_LQqAexzniHg-DMLc5BoCWojw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I used to work on old Suzukis and I used that quite a bit for small steel screws and fasteners screwed into aluminum to break the corrosion and prevent stripping the fasteners. It works well as a fat handled screwdriver too for better leverage.

 

[bonneyman]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OZJN3PQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

way better then anything cman has to offer. i own both. plus these come with a great wrench organizer. (you can buy 6mm and 7mm in singles if you need them. there couple bucks.). tekton has a VERY well respected warranty as well. just email or call and your will have a new tool on the way. dont have to ship the older one back or pay for shipping. they reply every time.

If I were starting out again today I'd go Tekton as well. Pretty nice for the price.

 

[FJ 432]

I would say that if you're younger it's important to form your own opinion.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

This is my first post, but this forum has helped me build my garage many a time. I've finally broke down and joined a forum.

I'm looking to get a decent metric wrench set for a motorcycle project, and have used the search function a lot, and what I'm really wondering is this:

Is China Craftsman really THAT bad? Examples please. I know the new ones have been dubbed "lobster claws" for obvious reasons. I'm not questioning that they are lower quality compared to NOS USA, but take a look at what those go for on ebay... Sometimes 2-3 times as much as a china counterpart.

I'm not a professional, but like to stock my tool box like I'm one for obvious reasons. It's the only place locally with a lifetime warranty,


But i don't buy junk.



I'd rather get a SK or used snap on set and pay out of pocket for a replacement on ebay than have one time use garbage i'm constantly taking back to sears.

Let me know what you think! I've got a wad of cash burning a hole in my wallet!

Conner

If You want quality; stay out of the Dime Stores... Find a good price on a set of new or lightly used Wright, SK, ProTo, SnapOn, USA Williams, or likewise..

Warranty: dunno:. I have actually "broke" one SnapOn and one PrpTo wrench over a period of fifty years. They broke under the reign of a 36oz brass hammer, so the blame is on Me.

 

[rice rocket]

Apex will most likely still honor the warranty, you just might receive Crescent or KD/Allen in return if the Craftsman name did die with it.

This is highly unlikely.

Even if Sears "paid" for the warranty service up front (instead of being billed by Apex for the warrantied goods), warranty service isn't free, Apex would have zero reason to keep up the Craftsman name alive. As Craftsman is the largest brand in the tool market, it directly competes with their own brands.

 

[ryan20021982]

If you have an Advance Auto near you they carry a good line of the Gearwrench stuff which is pretty good for the price, most stuff they are comparable in price to the Craftsman stuff. And they will warranty them also if you happen to need it.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

The Chinese Craftsman Max Axess chrome combination wrench set isn't bad and has been sold as cheap as $15 or so. They're the Gearwrench long pattern wrenches with a Craftsman stamp. I don't know if the "clinch drive" open end might mar chrome finishes. Don't confuse them with the "universal" Max Axess combination wrenches which are spline drive and black oxide finished.

Other downsides are the wrenches are only sold in the 9 piece sets with skips and the stores don't sell singles.

Looks like they're in the Sears Outlet system now:

http://www.searsoutlet.com/9-piece-...id=8285&mode=buyNewOnly&itemSelectionType=all

 

[BK13]

hmmm.. motorcycles fasteners usually can be seen, wrenching with chinese .... will leave marks and mangled bolts and nuts, that probably will cost you more than the tools.

you need 2 jis screwdrivers #2 and probably #3

6,8,10,12,14 wrenches ( combination if possible)

depending on you model a set of 3/8 sockets could be all you ever need.


buy smart, once and german, you'll never need warranty ...well the screwdrivers can be made in Japan

Obviously I'm not talking about combo wrenches with regards to KoKen.... but...

I love Hazet, and to a lesser extent Stahlwille and Gedore, but I would put KoKen and Nepros on equal footing with the German tools.... At this level, I think you are talking more about what YOU like as a user rather than one maker being 'better' than another....

Besides, there just seems to be something 'proper' about using Hazet or Stahlwille on your Audi or Beemer and KoKen Zeal or Nepros on your Honda or Yamaha, LOL.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Even if Sears goes under, the Craftsman name will still be around. Apex will most likely still honor the warranty, you just might receive Crescent or KD/Allen in return if the Craftsman name did die with it.

Wasn't there a closure date on that contract?

Before I would count on someone to honor a warranty outside of a contract;

I would take a paper cup and label it "Craftsman Tool Warranty Fund"
Throw your change in, and don't waste time chasing to the dine store or post office.. When the cup gets full, go shopping on eBay.

 

[rice rocket]

Contracts aren't binding if one of the parties is dissolved. Who's going to hold them to their word, the ghost of Craftsman past?

 

[anndel]

Went to part a truck with my cousin earlier this year. I forgot my Snap On impacts and sockets at home. Sears was about 2 blocks from the parter so I went and bought a 1/2 inch made in china Craftsman chrome socket set to use. I used it with my ratchet and impact wrench and though it took a beating not bad, they still look good.

My stupid cousin only brought Crescent wrenches, duh.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Most CMAN China no. They're are a couple of good tools they still have.

For sockets, ratchets, and breaker bars, I would buy the Pittsburgh Pro stuff from HF. Despite what some here think (probably just don't want to admit that Craftsman isn't that good, and that HF has stepped up their game), Harbor Freight does have some REALLY good tools for the price. Their Pittsburgh Pro Quick Release ratchets (not the thin profile) are the same as Kobalt, tekton, and every other 72T ratchet from Taiwan. It's a fine tooth ratchet that uses basically a Proto ratchet design (strong, smooth, and tough). The low profile ones from Pittsburgh Pro use the same design, just slimmed down and no quick release. Great ratchets for the money. The Pittsburgh Pro Chrome and Impact sockets are also really good. Probably the same thing as tekton and gearwrench honestly (all come out of Taiwan, not China). Don't buy the 60 piece socket sets for $4 from HF- they're obviously junk. Air Tools I'd also take the Earthquake line up over anything from Craftsman.

The CMAN 84T ratchets get good reviews here (the low profile ones form Taiwan). The CMAN 36T ratchets are junk, whether USA or China (the Chinese ones are better than the last of the USA made ones). Don't know why anyone would buy Craftsman sockets (unimpressive chrome and rust resistance, even the USA made ones from the danaher period), and the Raised Panel wrenches are short and uncomfortable. Tekton/gearwrench combination wrenches are way better for the same price.

Craftsman would go a long way by just contracting with the same OEMs who make Pittsburgh Pro tools for HF. We'd still complain on this forum about them being overpriced, but they'd be a solid step up in quality for most of their tools...In almost every case for Craftsman, there is now a better priced alternative. They rarely have anything that really makes me want to go to their store (last thing I can remember was the Japanese made ball grip screwdrivers a year or two ago).

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Even old Craftsman tools weren't as high quality as more expensive (ie. professional) brands. The warranty policy was good, take in a broken tool and a minute later walk out with a new/rebuilt or repaired tool or the same quality. That isn't always how it works now.

Harbor freight still sells some super cheap, super low quality tools but the quality of their better tools has improved. Last time I needed it the warranty is like Sears used to be.

IMO the best place to buy tools is at auction sales. Unfortunately these days you will most likely be bidding against the flippers (E-bay sellers). They mainly buy Snap-On and Craftsman because those brands are easier to sell.

 

[Aerocraft74]

It appears my first post started a wildfire! Thanks for the replies everyone!

This all seems about on par with what i've seen and heard about craftsman lately. In fact last week i was talking with a couple guys in plant maintenance about what they use. Everything from harbor freight to snap on. They all agreed that Craftsman was the devil, which sparked this post. Apparently about a year or so ago one of them got a 9/16 in a discount craftsman set that was really closer to 5/8! Couldn't believe it, i love my SAE VA Danaher set but i suppose times have changed.

I've been trolling ebay, and have found some reasonably priced snap on and SK, Question is do i feel like finding a truck for snap on (one doesn't visit the plant) or feel like driving 40 miles to the closest grainger for SK? I suppose with my ammount of use i'll never break anything but I like to know. How is big of a pain is getting SK warrantied guys?

 

[gdocktor3]

SK warranty is just as easy as Craftsman, except you have to wait for the new tool to come in the mail. Unless of course you drive the 40 miles. Myself and many other members, some within the past few days, have had excellent experiences with SK customer service.

I've also had good experiences with Snap On warranty via mail, but sometimes they like to see proof of original purchase on the more expensive items. I've bought tons of used tools off eBay and haven't had any problems. Just make sure to ask questions before buying and use common sense. I've purchased a few used air tools and made sure the seller replied to my questions guaranteeing they function properly. This way should they not, I can show eBay and get my money back should the seller choose not to refund me. eBay has come a long way and will refund your money if there's a problem.

 

[rlitman]

Contracts aren't binding if one of the parties is dissolved. Who's going to hold them to their word, the ghost of Craftsman past?

This is true, but it is still a misunderstanding of the situation.
Even if SEARS goes under, the CRAFTSMAN brand is worth more than Sears. And the owners of that brand know that much of the value in that that brand relies upon honoring its commitments. I'm sure that the Craftsman and Kenmore brands would be sold off and continue to exist, no matter what happens to Sears. Their investors would be rightly pissed if they were dissolved.

... In fact last week i was talking with a couple guys in plant maintenance about what they use. Everything from harbor freight to snap on. They all agreed that Craftsman was the devil, which sparked this post...

Craftsman is anything but the devil. Yes, they've off-shored a number of products with a corresponding huge drop in quality, but they're also still bringing out new US made stuff too. Just yesterday, I saw the new red handle prybars (still made in the USA, and now with striking caps), and they look excellent.

As for wrenches and sockets made in China, count me out. Taiwan, maybe.
One thing that surprises me is that one of the first things Sears off-shored was the impact sockets. I still have a Craftsman US made set of deep impact sockets, and though they're fairly thick walled compared to my Snap On set, the current ones are monstrously thick. I suppose some bean counter figured that they could get away with a cheaper Chinese steel and make up for it in thickness, and that people wouldn't care, but from what I know, the biggest cost savings in off-shoring tool production is in the chroming...

 

[L.Cheapo]

I cant make a case for Chinese made anything.

I'm a fan of quality, shopping local, human rights, and not financing an aggressive country that hates us.

But that's me.

 

[Superbec]

Obviously I'm not talking about combo wrenches with regards to KoKen.... but...

I love Hazet, and to a lesser extent Stahlwille and Gedore, but I would put KoKen and Nepros on equal footing with the German tools.... At this level, I think you are talking more about what YOU like as a user rather than one maker being 'better' than another....

Besides, there just seems to be something 'proper' about using Hazet or Stahlwille on your Audi or Beemer and KoKen Zeal or Nepros on your Honda or Yamaha, LOL.

Lol , I never seen a jap bike running scared from my Hazet trolley

I intend to get some Koken stuff but it will be a double triple or more ... I got so many hand tools I could hire at least 2 other mechs ...

What I was trying to tell him is he'll need very few hand tools for just one bike , so it's better to get very good tools rather than cheap out or get 2-300pcs set that you will never use.

If jis is carce you can always go PBswiss , PH2 and PH3 will not brake the bank.

Also the WERA allen set is the best and really not that expensive.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I'd honestly pony up the extra money for a legit set of wrenches you don't have to question every time you use them. Buy new and keep the receipt and you will never have to buy or cry again.

 

[Tonellin]

I cant make a case for Chinese made anything.

I'm a fan of quality, shopping local, human rights, and not financing an aggressive country that hates us.

But that's me.

He says while typing on his iphone or dell laptop